Peter Horbury returns to head Volvo design; Moray Callum in as Ford's design chief

[zipnzap]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/01/peter-h...-callum-in-as-f

 

This is good news for Volvo I guess.

 

How is Moray, compared to Ian?

[Versa-Tech]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/01/peter-h...-callum-in-as-f

 

This is good news for Volvo I guess.

 

How is Moray, compared to Ian?

The Month of March just called and it wants it's news back

[pcsario]

Yup, this is a huge win for Volvo and true Ford fans.

 

And look, he pretty much went out as the "Lincoln/Mercury guy", just like I said years ago.

 

Up and out, good riddance.

[Edstock]

Yup, this is a huge win for Volvo and true Ford fans.

Your very perceptive, for once.

 

And look, he pretty much went out as the "Lincoln/Mercury guy", just like I said years ago.

Ah the ol' 'Sario brain fart returns: statement, no facts to back it up.

[jpd80]

Yup, this is a huge win for Volvo and true Ford fans.

 

And look, he pretty much went out as the "Lincoln/Mercury guy", just like I said years ago.

 

Up and out, good riddance.

I'd call it a master stroke, the right people in the right places working for the right companies....

[waymondospiff]

So, Horbury is out, back to Volvo where they really need the help. A move most likely involving money and to make a pending sale more attractive to the buyer.

 

"Callum the other" is in as Ford's Design Chief. J Mays, the design head honcho, is still in place.

 

Will there be any noticeable difference anywhere in the chain?

 

Scott

[RichardJensen]

So, Horbury is out, back to Volvo where they really need the help. A move most likely involving money and to make a pending sale more attractive to the buyer.

 

"Callum the other" is in as Ford's Design Chief. J Mays, the design head honcho, is still in place.

 

Will there be any noticeable difference anywhere in the chain?

 

Scott

Yeah... Moray will now be just a yes-man whose sole responsibility will be taking dictation from his bosses in Cologne.

 

At least if you buy some of the e-compost that gets shoveled around on this board sometimes. :hysterical:

Edited April 4, 2009 by RichardJensen

[pcsario]

The more RJ laughs his way into denial, the more we know he's suffering and crying inside. :o

 

2008:

"Bo bo bo it's not over yet! New language won't be kinetic but something new with FNA's input! My man Horbury won't let me down!"

 

2009:

Horbury's out, Americans love the kinetic Taurus, Focus concept reveals "new language" to be Kinetic 2.

RJ: :fan:

Edited April 4, 2009 by pcsario

[jpd80]

IIRC, the 2010 Taurus was restyled several times until Mulally and Fields got what they wanted.

I recall RJ expressing a view that some executive styling cues were included and wonder if there

was some friction with the design team during this exercise - maybe Horbury felt too restricted?

Edited April 4, 2009 by jpd80

[pcsario]

The main guy behind the Taurus was Freeman Thomas. He's a long time friend of Mays and Smith. Don't see why there would be any friction there. As for the car itself, everyone can see its Interceptor's roots. Fields and Kuzak just kept returning the car until it was kinetified enough by the FNA staff.

 

Horbury was pretty much one of the few guys who echoed RJ's rethoric inside FNA. Once Mattin left Volvo, Fields and Mulally saw a way to get rid of Horbury's BS. Don't see why they would put "another Horbury" in charge.

 

Bottomline?

FOE's kinetic FTW!!!11!!1!!1 </Mays/Kuzak/Fields/Mulally>

</World>

</RichardJensen>

Edited April 4, 2009 by pcsario

[RichardJensen]

"As for the car itself, everyone can see its Interceptor's roots"

 

"FOE's kinetic FTW"

 

It is impossible for both of these statements to be true.

 

Unfortunately, it appears that the neat and tidy work of Ford's NA staff IS being crapped on by Ford...

 

But it would be incorrect to say that I predicted otherwise. I lamented then, as now, the decision to discard good work for bland. I railed against it then, I am still irritated by it, and while I hoped that common sense would prevail, it has not. The decision to cram euro-designs down the throats of NA designers is one of the dumbest moves that Mulally has made.

 

And believe me, there isn't a single line on the Taurus that says 'elegant', per Mays' predictions last year--it is, instead, it is chock-a-bloc full of unresolved lines, and the sized up Mondeo face screams "BIG CAMRY."

 

It is an ugly vehicle, but as the Camry and Accord show, ugly sells.

Edited April 4, 2009 by RichardJensen

[jpd80]

Maybe we read far too much into this, perhaps Horbury saw a golden opportunity to return to Volvo

giving them his unique design language. I like his Volvo designs and think he perfect for them.

 

I still see this as win/win for everyone and that can't be a bad thing.

 

RJ,

I agree with Taurus looking like a big Camry, a calculated executive decision I think is a bit wrong.

I feel they should have tipped more "Falcon" into the mix to avoid the awkward Camry bone lines.

Not sure how to describe it but Taurus needs to be it's own car......

Edited April 4, 2009 by jpd80

[waymondospiff]

Yeah... Moray will now be just a yes-man whose sole responsibility will be taking dictation from his bosses in Cologne.

 

At least if you buy some of the e-compost that gets shoveled around on this board sometimes. :hysterical:

Hmmm...yeah, no, actually, yeah, no.

 

I re-read my post, no where did I state Moray is a "yes man." What I did ask is, Moray worked for Horbury and is now replacing him, however, the head design guy is still J Mays. Is it not a valid question to ask if this will result in change?

 

I think it is. You, however, don't. Good for you. Anyone else?

 

Scott

[RichardJensen]

Since this is the Horbury thread, I'll post here what could just as well be posted on the 2011 Focus thread:

 

If Horbury was reassigned because he wanted more independence for his design staff, MORE POWER TO HIM. The idea that Martin Smith & J Mays should have final say over what is sold to US customers borders on the absurd. And, moreover, that they should form a sort of clique with Freeman Thomas in the design division of Ford is the worst of old-school Detroit decision making, 'we don't like what that guy has to say, so let's crap on him to our bosses and get him reassigned.'

 

The US, people, is NOT Europe. Widespread praise of the 2010 Taurus would be a vindication of the new school of choppy and bland lines over 'RW&B' if the 2007 Edge was not received with equal praise and enthusiasm. If the Flex wasn't widely praised. If people greeted both this Mustang and the 2005 iteration with yawns.

 

I have gone to bat for J Mays before, and I admire the work Martin Smith has done with FoE.

 

But I have absolutely no respect left for them if they shouldered Horbury out of Ford Motor for protesting extremely questionable corporate decision making.

 

-----

 

For those of you who think, "What's wrong with European design? I like the way the Mondeo looks in pictures," I have this question:

 

Name ONE company that has achieved widespread success selling European designed entry-level products in the US.

[RichardJensen]

Hmmm...yeah, no, actually, yeah, no.

 

I re-read my post, no where did I state Moray is a "yes man." What I did ask is, Moray worked for Horbury and is now replacing him, however, the head design guy is still J Mays. Is it not a valid question to ask if this will result in change?

 

I think it is. You, however, don't. Good for you. Anyone else?

 

Scott

That post was a response to pcsario's insistence that Moray Callum was superbly qualified to head North American design because he was 'used to limited input.' In other words, he would make an excellent yes-man where Horbury was apparently too fond of his own opinions, and that apparently is the 'hoped for' difference. At least if you buy pcsario's take.

 

Unfortunately, I think pcsario's right. I think Mays & Smith forced Horbury out, and I don't like it one bit, and I hope that Callum has the guts to keep fighting for the same principle that Horbury fought for: a freer hand for North American designers.

[jon_the_limey]

Perhaps there is no conspiracy, maybe Horbury just wants to return to Europe.

Edited April 5, 2009 by jon_the_limey

[rmc523]

Wasn't Horbury responsible for this beauty?

 

[RichardJensen]

Re: MKR

 

As they say, 'success has many fathers'.

 

IMO the MKR looks similar enough to some of Mazda's products to suggest that Moray Callum was the lead designer on it, but it's hard to say anything for certain--I don't think Ford has officially said which designer took the lead (unlike the Interceptor, which was a Freeman Thomas design).

 

Of the various products since Horbury took over, I think the MKT is the most distinctly 'Horbury' among them--although the interior of the MKS feels similar to some of Volvo's products as well. The Flex was 'in the can' so to speak by the time Horbury arrived, as was the Fusion. The Edge's interior may not have been finalized by fall '04, but its exterior almost certainly was.

 

One more note on the MKR--while Horbury may not have been the lead designer, he was the man behind the push for a 'defining' concept car for Lincoln--a car that was without doubt a Lincoln.

 

That push for defining elements, IMO, will be missed.

Edited April 5, 2009 by RichardJensen

[rmc523]

Re: MKR

 

As they say, 'success has many fathers'.

 

IMO the MKR looks similar enough to some of Mazda's products to suggest that Moray Callum was the lead designer on it, but it's hard to say anything for certain--I don't think Ford has officially said which designer took the lead (unlike the Interceptor, which was a Freeman Thomas design).

 

Of the various products since Horbury took over, I think the MKT is the most distinctly 'Horbury' among them--although the interior of the MKS feels similar to some of Volvo's products as well. The Flex was 'in the can' so to speak by the time Horbury arrived, as was the Fusion. The Edge's interior may not have been finalized by fall '04, but its exterior almost certainly was.

 

One more note on the MKR--while Horbury may not have been the lead designer, he was the man behind the push for a 'defining' concept car for Lincoln--a car that was without doubt a Lincoln.

 

That push for defining elements, IMO, will be missed.

 

Yes, I thought it was him because of the last two sentences you posted......I recall that video on the Lincoln website showing Horbury describing the different elements of the MKR that made it a "Lincoln."

[Edstock]

 

There's a thing on the reef

With big shiny white teeth

That's a Moray

 

If he's big and he's mean

And he's slimy and green

That's a Moray-ay-ay...

[Versa-Tech]

Yes, I thought it was him because of the last two sentences you posted......I recall that video on the Lincoln website showing Horbury describing the different elements of the MKR that made it a "Lincoln."

I hope the sharp corners wasn't one of them

[waymondospiff]

That post was a response to pcsario's insistence...

Ah. No harm no foul. But please watch the quotes.

 

Unfortunately, I think pcsario's right. I think Mays & Smith forced Horbury out, and I don't like it one bit, and I hope that Callum has the guts to keep fighting for the same principle that Horbury fought for: a freer hand for North American designers.

Agree with a "but," disagree with a "however."

 

If your organization is heading in one direction and only one person is being a "hold up," even if for valid reasons, that person sometimes needs to go for the sake of the company. All oars in the same direction and all that...

 

But that's assuming he was forced out, and I'm not entirely sure that's the case. Volvo is in need of a lead designer, which gives Horbury the opportunity to do rich and lavish style, which, from his body of work, appears to be his thing. Ford ranges from the nice Flex & MKS to the Fiesta & Escape. Maybe Horbury didn't want to do more heavily compromised work on the cheaper products. I do think Moray, with the Mazda experience, will be better suited for the lower-end products like Fiesta & Focus.

 

Finally, entry-level cars designed in Europe that have done well in the US.

 

Well...the Golf/Rabbit/Jetta. They did better back in the 80s, but VW still sell 100K or so per year of the two I'd guess. The Daewoo Kalos (known to us as the Chevy Aveo) was designed by Italdesign & heavy chassis development took place in the UK & the car was introduced at the European auto shows before the Asian (or American) shows. Although not a raging success, the Suzuki SX4 was designed by Italdesign on a Fiat chassis. That's fairly European. The Toyota Yaris is a European design on a Japanese suspension, I'm not sure if that applies. A similar European/Japanese hybrid is the Nissan Tiida (our Nissan Versa) where Renault & Nissan shared design of the chassis. A little up the ladder there's the Acura TSX - the European Honda Accord - where demand outstripped supply when it first launched. Of course, it was an artifically low supply of only around 20K per year. Too new to be a success or a failure, the Hyundai Elantra Touring is a version of the Hyundai i30 Estate - designed by Hyundai's European R&D center. And you can't forget the Mini. Also too new for a fail/succeed label is the Smart.

 

And of course there's always the Ford Focus.

 

I don't see why European designed compacts can't fare well in the US. After all, it's Asian compacts that have been dominating the US market for years: Civic, Corolla, Sentra/Bluebird/Sunny, Protege/Mazda3, Mazda-based Escorts, Elantra, Spectra, etc. If anything, the US market and the European market have grown closer in the decade making the viability of "World Cars."

 

Scott

[mackinaw]

One more note on the MKR--while Horbury may not have been the lead designer, he was the man behind the push for a 'defining' concept car for Lincoln--a car that was without doubt a Lincoln.

 

I wonder how much designing any chief stylist actually does. I suspect this person, no matter the company, is more of an administrator than an actual hands-on stylist.

 

Ford's styling studio has been disjointed and poorly run since Jack Telnack left. J. Mays has been a major dud IMO. I suspect Horburys leaving has more to do with office politics than anything.

[Critic]

Wasn't Horbury responsible for this beauty?

 

I don't know if I can call that a beauty now anymore or not. I think at the time it was done, it was avant-gard. Now it's dated and too far over the top. And since they have stretched that across all models it is cheapening the brand. Luxury or elegance, to me, should be understated. that grill is just too BOLD. It smaks of plasticine. Do you always want to see a Lincoln as an also ran?

[rmc523]

I don't know if I can call that a beauty now anymore or not. I think at the time it was done, it was avant-gard. Now it's dated and too far over the top. And since they have stretched that across all models it is cheapening the brand. Luxury or elegance, to me, should be understated. that grill is just too BOLD. It smaks of plasticine. Do you always want to see a Lincoln as an also ran?

 

Eh, you may be right for a production model. I too generally prefer the understated approach. I did love that concept though, and still do.