The Panthers are DEAD!

[sa_seahawker]

So why not spend the cheddar to make a platform that could work. Is FMC only coming out with platforms that will get them by for 10 or so years? Front the cash WITH the intention the platform could last for 30 or so years. Design it to be flexible for life's little technological advances. I'm sure it's easier said than done. But if you have to spend 8 million on designing a platform (just guessed at a number), how much profit can you legitimately attain when you have to dump it after 2 gens because it can't grow with changing demands?

 

That's just my opinion I could be wrong.

 

By the way...where the hell are those damn hydrogen cars that Bush promised me??? LOL

[630land]

So sick of these so called 'real men' who claim the Panther is what should be the only car made in the USA, :blah:

 

Well, real men, get over yourself, the rest of the world isn't kissing your ass anymore, and you really dont "know everything".

 

1. Gas ain't cheap anymore, and never will be, so V8/RWDcars are not coming back as big as 40 years ago.

2. Most people couldn't care less about the 1950's and 'standard Fords'.

3. Mopar's 300 has peaked, and the Dodge Chrager/Magnums are not selling as well. AND THEY ARE UNIBODY!

4. GM's RWD will not set world on fire. Most will kick tires then go get a Toyota FWD car.

5. Toyota and all are not going anywhere

6. Elected Republicans use 'family values' to get votes, then tell Ford to F.O, so why should Ford care about "real men"??

7. No, America is not going to go back to wifey in the kitchen, Daddy working at the plant and buying BOF V8's every year.

8. Ethanol ain't cheap either

9. Women control the car purchase decision in 60% of cases.

 

and 10. All other car companies sell and market to women, non straight men, and even people who are actaully not white!! Looks like all the "cave man" will have to build their own mode of transportation!

[taxman100]

So sick of these so called 'real men' who claim the Panther is what should be the only car made in the USA, :blah:

 

Well, real men, get over yourself, the rest of the world isn't kissing your ass anymore, and you really dont "know everything".

 

1. Gas ain't cheap anymore, and never will be, so V8/RWDcars are not coming back as big as 40 years ago.

2. Most people couldn't care less about the 1950's and 'standard Fords'.

3. Mopar's 300 has peaked, and the Dodge Chrager/Magnums are not selling as well. AND THEY ARE UNIBODY!

4. GM's RWD will not set world on fire. Most will kick tires then go get a Toyota FWD car.

5. Toyota and all are not going anywhere

6. Elected Republicans use 'family values' to get votes, then tell Ford to F.O, so why should Ford care about "real men"??

7. No, America is not going to go back to wifey in the kitchen, Daddy working at the plant and buying BOF V8's every year.

8. Ethanol ain't cheap either

9. Women control the car purchase decision in 60% of cases.

 

and 10. All other car companies sell and market to women, non straight men, and even people who are actaully not white!! Looks like all the "cave man" will have to build their own mode of transportation!

 

I do agree that "Real Men" is not the most lucrative market - you know the kind of guys that buys a fairly simple, reliable car for cash, keeps it at least a decade, and ignores all the marketing hype to get a new car every 3 years. Probably has no debt other than their mortgage, 6 months salary saved for emergencies, and would rather spend Saturday night with his wife and kids at home. (Of course, my wife is a heck of a cook) In short, the kind of person that Corporate America hates to have as a customer.

 

Automakers have figured out there are a lot of other people who are pretty stupid with their money, so they focus on them. Ford has decided to dumb down their target market to the insecure is the way I look at it.

 

Nope - we'll just keep buying them used as long as feasible, and then go buy a Toyota Avalon. If Ford is not going to sell what we want, but would rather copy the Japanese, why not just buy the original?

[BORG]

It also costs a ton to make a flexible platform and a flexible manufacturing facility to go with it. If there is no case for the investment, then sometimes it actually does make sense to make a dedicated chasis for one vehicle.

[SysEng]

1. Gas ain't cheap anymore, and never will be, so V8/RWDcars are not coming back as big as 40 years ago.

 

...

and 10. All other car companies sell and market to women, non straight men, and even people who are actaully not white!! Looks like all the "cave man" will have to build their own mode of transportation!

 

Ummm, gas ain't all tha expensive either.

 

And You are talking to exactly the kind of guy who ain't no "cave man" and has already proposed we do exactly that... design and custom build our own solution.

 

When I find a freeware 3D rendering CAD package, we will do exactly that... :bowdown:

[Great_Kornholio]

It's simply amazing how stubborn Panther fans are (as few of you as there are left). As not much a Panther fan, believe me, all of these changed you all endorse (new sheet metal, 5.4, updated interior) aren't going to come off as anything more than lipstick on a pig to the vast majority of the buying market.

 

The entire image of the Panther cars is ruined in the public's eye. Unless the entire vehicle line is re-invented from scratch, nobody is going to even pay attention.

 

One more note: It's my understanding that the 5.4 can NOT be bottom-loaded in the current Panther chassis, thereby making it an impossibility to be installed with the current tooling. So much for that dream.

 

Change just for the sake of change is stupid and not a good economic course. Yhere simply isn't a better body on frame RWD platform out there in production. Add a 5.4 and some style updates and you have a survivor good for several more years. The 500 is a complete joke. Who needs a Ford Camry?

 

 

 

 

So sick of these so called 'real men' who claim the Panther is what should be the only car made in the USA, :blah:

 

Well, real men, get over yourself, the rest of the world isn't kissing your ass anymore, and you really dont "know everything".

 

1. Gas ain't cheap anymore, and never will be, so V8/RWDcars are not coming back as big as 40 years ago.

2. Most people couldn't care less about the 1950's and 'standard Fords'.

3. Mopar's 300 has peaked, and the Dodge Chrager/Magnums are not selling as well. AND THEY ARE UNIBODY!

4. GM's RWD will not set world on fire. Most will kick tires then go get a Toyota FWD car.

5. Toyota and all are not going anywhere

6. Elected Republicans use 'family values' to get votes, then tell Ford to F.O, so why should Ford care about "real men"??

7. No, America is not going to go back to wifey in the kitchen, Daddy working at the plant and buying BOF V8's every year.

8. Ethanol ain't cheap either

9. Women control the car purchase decision in 60% of cases.

 

and 10. All other car companies sell and market to women, non straight men, and even people who are actaully not white!! Looks like all the "cave man" will have to build their own mode of transportation!

 

Then buy a frigging pink one!

 

[NickF1011]

Change just for the sake of change is stupid and not a good economic course. Yhere simply isn't a better body on frame RWD platform out there in production. Add a 5.4 and some style updates and you have a survivor good for several more years.

 

That's my entire point. A few tweaks will only do just that: make it a survivor. It certainly won't turn it back into an actual SUCCESS. It will just mull around like it currently is. A few minor changes will do nothing but delay the inevitable.

 

 

The 500 is a complete joke. Who needs a Ford Camry?

 

Ford does. If they can attract some of those 400,000 Camry owners into a Ford dealership, that would make a lot more headway toward a recovery than dumping millions into an outdated Panther in hopes of simply RETAINING an ever-shrinking share of an ever-shrinking market.

[Traveler]

The future for a Ford V8 RWD large sedan has to be viewed as what it is...that is particularly a type of automobile that will (1) provide performance, safety, comfort and longevity that is demanded by police and fleet buyers and (2) to fill a niche for us Ford guys who appreciate those same attributes wrapped in a more traditional American car.

Some of those 'cave man' notions could also apply to the Mustang. I guess those who love FWD and small displacement, super fuel-efficient autos can not understand why Ford listened to Mustang lovers and abandoned their efforts to allow the Probe to replace the V8 RWD Mustang. Is Mustang GT buyers considering the Toyota Celica, Acura RSX, Honda Civics or one of those little Scions?

I think there is no question that Ford needs a rear wheel drive Mustang and a rear wheel drive flagship sedan. The real question is how is Ford to accomplish keeping a big RWD V8 sedan in production and selling. Do they keep the Panther and modify it? Build an entirely new platform? Modify an existing RWD platform? Import something like the Falcon? Panther owners seem to be among the most loyal of Ford buyers. Probably only the F-Series trucks and Mustang owners are as comparable. Ford should certainly not discount the interests of Panther owners or they risk to further lose loyal consumers. The Probe could not replace the Mustang and Five-Hundred IMO will never take the place of Crown Victoria. The Five-Hundred is a good car and has its place in the stable, but it can not be a Crown Victoria and Montego can not be Grand Marquis and MKZ can not be Town Car.

Edited July 1, 2006 by Traveler

[ehaase]

I think there is no question that Ford needs a rear wheel drive Mustang and a rear wheel drive flagship sedan. The real question is how is Ford to accomplish keeping a big RWD V8 sedan in production and selling. Do they keep the Panther and modify it? Build an entirely new platform? Modify an existing RWD platform? Import something like the Falcon? Panther owners seem to be among the most loyal of Ford buyers. Probably only the F-Series trucks and Mustang owners are as comparable. Ford should certainly not discount the interests of Panther owners or they risk to further lose loyal consumers. The Probe could not replace the Mustang and Five-Hundred IMO will never take the place of Crown Victoria. The Five-Hundred is a good car and has its place in the stable, but it can not be a Crown Victoria and Montego can not be Grand Marquis and MKZ can not be Town Car.

As the owner of two Crown Victorias, I am resigned to the fact that these cars are history after 2010. Since I prefer to own cars for 10 to 14 years, if I want another RWD car in the future, it will probably have to be either a Dodge Charger or the Zeta platform Chevrolet Impala that is supposed to debut around 2010. On the other hand, since I fully expect gasoline prices to continue increasing substantially, those cars themselves may be short-lived.

[SysEng]

I guess those who love FWD and small displacement, super fuel-efficient autos can not understand ...

 

Why I consider them to be so stoopiid? :shrug: What can I say?

 

Show me a "super efficient" car that isn't a Geo Storm clone, that gets more than 5-8 MPG better than I currently get driving a "panther" :huh:. Actually show me anything that gets better than the 25mpg I currently make and then try and cost justify the stupid thing. You may get more MPG, but that car ain't going where I need to go, when I need to go, for 10 years running!

 

With the benefit, of free schooling, a free public library, and the internet, seems to me that stupidity and complete lack of numeracy skills ( f'ers can't even add ) is more rampant than ever. Either that or drugs really do have a huge market around here :fan: .

[matthewq4b]

I am curious, exactly when was the current Panther car platform born? I remember that 1979 was the last year for the REALLY big Lincoln (it was called the Continental, but it was before the mid-sized Continental and was the big car). Did the current Panther platform exist before 1980? 1980 was the first year for the "downsized" Crown Victoria (formerly the LTD before LTD became a mid-sized car in anticipation of killing the bigger cars that never happened) and Grand Marquis (again, versus the midsized "Mere Marquis").

 

 

The panther was born to production in 1978 for the 79 Model year. Work on the Panther began in 1974.

The panther shares nothing with it's predesessor platforms. It was an all new ground up clean sheet design. The only thing carried over was the location of the fuel tank.

 

Panther wagons did not come out till 1980. The old chassis carried on under the wagons till 1980. There were no 1979 Panther Wagons. The panther chassis was designed to accept the 385 series engines. Dropping a 460 in to a pre 2001 (if remember right) Panther is a cake walk and can be done with factory parts short of exhaust bits.

 

The only engines that were actually used in Panther were The 4.6L mod 302, 351W and the POS 351M (for 79 and early 1980 only).

 

The Panther chassis of 2006 bears little resembalance to the chassis of 1979. From 1979 to 1994 the chassis did not change at all other than the addition of rear disks in 92. It was in finally 1995 that substantial front suspension changes were made. And every couple years after that small improvements were made until the current configuration.

 

In 92 all the sheet metal Above the floor pans was changed to the current configuration.

 

The base content in the Panther is now 32 years old. It is by far one of the best if not the best engineered car to ever come out of any manufactures doors. This car was not designed on a computor with auto cad but was done with calculators on drafting tables and with clay models.

 

Considering when this platfrom was orginally designed it has surpassed everything built in the last 30 years for longevity and durabilty. It has taken 32 years for the Panther to be out classsed and that is more in part of negelect than a an old design.

 

 

The Panther will go down in history as one of the best built best engineered and longest lived cars ever built. By the time 2010 rolls around the chassis will be 36 years old. And been in production for 32 of those years.

 

Hard to belive the Panther was being born during the arab oil embargo and when Henery the Duece was running the show.

 

The solid and long lived engineering in the Panthers is a testiment to it orginal designers.

 

It has earned a spot as one of the all time great cars just due to the built in upgradeabilty durability and continued strong sales for over 27 years.

 

 

 

 

Matthew

Edited July 7, 2006 by matthewq4b

[Daryll40]

The panther was born to production in 1978 for the 79 Model year. Work on the Panther began in 1974.

The panther shares nothing with it's predesessor platforms. It was an all new ground up clean sheet design. The only thing carried over was the location of the fuel tank.

 

Panther wagons did not come out till 1980. The old chassis carried on under the wagons till 1980. There were no 1979 Panther Wagons. The panther chassis was designed to accept the 385 series engines. Dropping a 460 in to a pre 2001 (if remember right) Panther is a cake walk and can be done with factory parts short of exhaust bits.

 

The only engines that were actually used in Panther were The 4.6L mod 302, 351W and the POS 351M (for 79 and early 1980 only).

 

The Panther chassis of 2006 bears little resembalance to the chassis of 1979. From 1979 to 1994 the chassis did not change at all other than the addition of rear disks in 92. It was in finally 1995 that substantial front suspension changes were made. And every couple years after that small improvements were made until the current configuration.

 

In 92 all the sheet metal Above the floor pans was changed to the current configuration.

 

The base content in the Panther is now 32 years old. It is by far one of the best if not the best engineered car to ever come out of any manufactures doors. This car was not designed on a computor with auto cad but was done with calculators on drafting tables and with clay models.

 

Considering when this platfrom was orginally designed it has surpassed everything built in the last 30 years for longevity and durabilty. It has taken 32 years for the Panther to be out classsed and that is more in part of negelect than a an old design.

The Panther will go down in history as one of the best built best engineered and longest lived cars ever built. By the time 2010 rolls around the chassis will be 36 years old. And been in production for 32 of those years.

 

Hard to belive the Panther was being born during the arab oil embargo and when Henery the Duece was running the show.

 

The solid and long lived engineering in the Panthers is a testiment to it orginal designers.

 

It has earned a spot as one of the all time great cars just due to the built in upgradeabilty durability and continued strong sales for over 27 years.

Matthew

 

 

Good Post! Thanks for the history. One comment...I know that my dad had a '79 B-I-G Lincoln. Could it be possible that the LTD/Grand Marquis for '79 was on the Panther but that Lincoln kept the prior generation BIG car for that 1 year? Or might you be mistaken and did maybe the Panther debut in the fall of '79 (as I remember the case to be) as an '80 model year vehicle for all 3 (TC/GM/CV)?

[matthewq4b]

Good Post! Thanks for the history. One comment...I know that my dad had a '79 B-I-G Lincoln. Could it be possible that the LTD/Grand Marquis for '79 was on the Panther but that Lincoln kept the prior generation BIG car for that 1 year? Or might you be mistaken and did maybe the Panther debut in the fall of '79 (as I remember the case to be) as an '80 model year vehicle for all 3 (TC/GM/CV)?

 

 

The Panther debuted in the fall of 1978 well Sept actually As 4 and 2 door GM's,LTD's (Fleet mostly), and Crown Vic's the CV was a trim option, The LTD's had 2 head lights and the CV's 4.

In 1980 the wagons were added to the Panther chassis as were the 4 and 2 door Lincoln's.

 

There were no Panther Lincolns for the 79 Modle year. They did not start till the 1980 model year. The Panther Lincolns were the first Main stream NA car to use an all aluminum hood. In the 1981 model year All the Lincolns were Panthers ,the Conti-Town Car and the Conti-Mark VI.

The trouble prone Granada Based Versailes was avalible from 1977-1980 (part of the year in 1980) Very few 1980 Versailles were made, personally I think they were left over 1979 units rebadged as 80's at the factory.

The Versailles never sold well to begin with and were a trouble prone POS.

 

In 1982 the Fox based Conti was introduced. And in late 1983 the Fox Based Mark VII coupe was Introduced as an 84 Model.

In 84 & 85 a 115HP BMW I6 TD FI 2.4L Diesel was avalible as an option in the Mark VII, (Can you say gutless.) But the Diesel did manage a respectable (for the time) 30MPG on the hyway And about 25 MPG in the city.

 

 

In 79 the 460 was dropped from the big Lincoln Continental Mark V and used only the 400 as the top engine.

 

The massive Continental (Town Car & Coupe) Carried the 460 right till 1979 . The big Lincoln was 20FT long(as long as most regular box super cab pick up's) and with a curb weight only a few pounds shy of 5000 LBS that 460 was worked hard enough that it got about 8 MPG in the city and only about 11 on the hyway. But the huge 25 Gallon Fuel tank insured you carrried enough fuel to get you to your destination.

 

The doors on the 2 door, weighed some 250LBS each fully out fitted. They had some of the most massive side impact beams ever used period. Composed of 2 pieces of 3/16th's steel channel and flat bar. Ford was using massive side impact beams as early as the 1960's in their cars.

 

I once read that were was enoguh steel in these units to build 4.5 Honda Civics(and you wonder why the U.S steel industry went for shit in the early 80's lol)

 

The big 77-79 Lincolns had a well above average repair record and were an extremely structurally soild vehical for the time. And were about the safest thing on 4 wheels, (you could drive over and through most every thing else on the road at the time). The cost of ownsership was the lowest of all luxery cars of the day, if you did not count the huge quantity's of fuel required to move them.

The 77-79 Lincons were the last of the massive NA cars, never again would we see cars of this size grace the roads of NA.

 

 

Matthew

[Daryll40]

The Panther debuted in the fall of 1978 well Sept actually As 4 and 2 door GM's,LTD's (Fleet mostly), and Crown Vic's the CV was a trim option, The LTD's had 2 head lights and the CV's 4.

In 1980 the wagons were added to the Panther chassis as were the 4 and 2 door Lincoln's.

 

There were no Panther Lincolns for the 79 Modle year. They did not start till the 1980 model year. The Panther Lincolns were the first Main stream NA car to use an all aluminum hood. In the 1981 model year All the Lincolns were Panthers ,the Conti-Town Car and the Conti-Mark VI.

The trouble prone Granada Based Versailes was avalible from 1977-1980 (part of the year in 1980) Very few 1980 Versailles were made, personally I think they were left over 1979 units rebadged as 80's at the factory.

The Versailles never sold well to begin with and were a trouble prone POS.

 

In 1982 the Fox based Conti was introduced. And in late 1983 the Fox Based Mark VII coupe was Introduced as an 84 Model.

In 84 & 85 a 115HP BMW I6 TD FI 2.4L Diesel was avalible as an option in the Mark VII, (Can you say gutless.) But the Diesel did manage a respectable (for the time) 30MPG on the hyway And about 25 MPG in the city.

 

 

In 79 the 460 was dropped from the big Lincoln Continental Mark V and used only the 400 as the top engine.

 

The massive Continental (Town Car & Coupe) Carried the 460 right till 1979 . The big Lincoln was 20FT long(as long as most regular box super cab pick up's) and with a curb weight only a few pounds shy of 5000 LBS that 460 was worked hard enough that it got about 8 MPG in the city and only about 11 on the hyway. But the huge 25 Gallon Fuel tank insured you carrried enough fuel to get you to your destination.

 

The doors on the 2 door, weighed some 250LBS each fully out fitted. They had some of the most massive side impact beams ever used period. Composed of 2 pieces of 3/16th's steel channel and flat bar. Ford was using massive side impact beams as early as the 1960's in their cars.

 

I once read that were was enoguh steel in these units to build 4.5 Honda Civics(and you wonder why the U.S steel industry went for shit in the early 80's lol)

 

The big 77-79 Lincolns had a well above average repair record and were an extremely structurally soild vehical for the time. And were about the safest thing on 4 wheels, (you could drive over and through most every thing else on the road at the time). The cost of ownsership was the lowest of all luxery cars of the day, if you did not count the huge quantity's of fuel required to move them.

The 77-79 Lincons were the last of the massive NA cars, never again would we see cars of this size grace the roads of NA.

Matthew

 

 

That all sounds right now. Like I said, we had a '79 Town Car and yes, it got about 8 or 9 MPG around town. I still see a few left on the roads every now and then...usually in good shape indicating that they are being kept by a collector or semi-collector who just hangs onto it.

[ehaase]

Matthew's post on the history of the Panther is excellent, except that the wagons did use the Panther platform for 1979. There are pictures in the October, 1978 issue of MT showing them. I clearly remember the Panther Country Squire and LTD wagon at the Ford dealership in late 1978.

[matthewq4b]

Matthew's post on the history of the Panther is excellent, except that the wagons did use the Panther platform for 1979. There are pictures in the October, 1978 issue of MT showing them. I clearly remember the Panther Country Squire and LTD wagon at the Ford dealership in late 1978.

 

 

Ehaase is right. the Panther was avaible in 79 as a wagon. My error.

 

The previous gen full size wagon was also avalible in 1979 In Canada, not sure about the U.S, but it was avaible in Canada as we owned a massive full size 460 equipped 79 wagon . Not sure of why for the over lap. Unless Ford was using up stock piled parts frames engines ect, proboly similar to what happend with the 80 Versailles.

 

As a Side note the 351W was avalible in retail Canadian CV's & GMs until 1986. In fact you have-had a hard time finding a 1985 CV GM here with the 302-5.0L most all in fact are-were 351 equipped. By 1986 about 1/2 of them were 302's. In 1987 the 351 gave way to the FI 5.0L excpet for PI units. That used the VV carbed 351W till 1991.

 

And yes the post 82 Canadian retail units used the PI engine with a milder cam usually all other engine bits are the, same including the double roller timming chain, some times you will come across one with a flat steel link chain and a PI cam. Or roller chain and no PI cam And some times you will come across retail units with the complete PI Drive line in them. The 85 GM I had was one such unit with a complete PI engine and tranny Minus the engine oil cooler.. Which I added later. I think STAP used what was ever avaible at the time of building for the 351W Canadian retail cars.

 

The 351 was only avalible in retail units Stateside unitl 1981.

 

Anouther note of interest the front suspension on the 1997- 2003 F 150's is a direct copy of the post 1994 Panther front suspention . The only major differance is the orentation of the lower ball joint.

 

Have a look some time at the front susp on the last gen of F 150 and a 95 to 2001 or so Panther and you'd think that the parts would direct swap between the 2.

 

 

The suspention lay out, arm orentation design and mounitng, shock & spring location, sway bar location and design is copied right from the Panther.

 

The Panther gave up it's Front suspention to the F 150 to get it off the Twin I Beam.

 

The durabilty of the panthers suspension is legendary, and was good enough to under pin the F 150

 

 

My Old 85 GM was a good car and is still on the road today with anouther family member. It actually is in better shape than my 92 as the 85 got new paint in 1998 . The car got many mods including all the PI suspension parts.

 

I did learn about the do's and dont's of ram induction on that car.

 

The VV on that thing was acting up yet again. And By then I had, had enough of the Varible Ventury Carb.

 

So if i,m gonna swap out the carb might as well do it right and put on a 4 BBL.

 

I changed the car to a an old autolite 4100 4bbl that had the TV rod linkage from a AOD 2150 Carb added (The ease of the AOD inkage swap was part of the reason the 4100 was used and the 4100 is a dead nuts reliable and simple carb) an Edelbrock Performer intake & Cam were thrown in to the mix as well.

 

The car got a lifter valley baffle pan the same as used on the 351W 4BBl truck engines to keep the hot oil off the bottom of the intake.

 

Well I managed to build enough ram induction to squash that sucker flat against the under side of the intake manifold and blow out the rear engine to intake manifold gasket.

 

 

OK your now wondering how that happend right?

 

Well I had scrounged up a dual inlet air cleaner from a 84-85 stang. I used 2 stock panther inlet hoses that get air from above and infront of the rad and condenser a fairly high pressure area. Belive it or not the holes are in the rad support for the second in let hose right from the factory. I got all the PVC plumbing hooked up and away I went, Well the thing went great. And pulled like you would not belive the faster you went the faster it wanted to go. Well at about 95MPH on the hyway, holy chirst I had an instant smoke screen behind me and the engine started acting up. Well jeeze I thoguh I just grenaded the engine. Brilliant.......... Dumb ass.

 

As I slowed down it quit smoking and ran fine. Well WTF. Speed up same shit. Ok now i,m thinkning I have busted a ring or some thing.

 

Any way off back home at a speed closer to the speed limit.

 

Any how I get get home and find the rear of the engine and the tranny oil soaked . I Pull the intake and find the rear intake seal outta place and the baffel pan a bit squashed.

 

Ok so now I'm thinking I Fd up the install.

 

So I get new gaskets and this time I glue the intake to engine gaskets in place, no way they are moving this time when I install the intake..... or ever. Once it is all wrapped up Back on the hyway I go.

 

It's running great pulling like a freight train till about 105 MPH. Then holy fuck the whole world comes apart. The engine starts bucking, backfireing, missing & there is a cloud of oil smoke behind me that looks like the D Day landings. I,m thinking "OHHH now you've done it". So I slow down and again things smarten excpet for the smell of burnign oil. And the occasional miss Yup..... I think, "you bitched for sure this time".

 

On the drive back home it ran great excpet for the oil smoke. Ok now i,m thinkning the cam is not dialed in right timing is out ect ect.

 

I get home pull the timming cover and valve cover to check the cam timming nope it is good. Igniton timming is good. But christ where is all this oil comming from. Yup rear intake gasket is leaking. WTF????????.

 

Off comes the intake well this time the baffle pan is not just a little squashed but it is FN flat against the bottom of the intake and the rear intake gasket is just plain missing.

 

WTF???? again.

 

Ok now obviusly I,m pressuring up the cranck case but how? Busted rings. I do leak down test nope that is fine.

 

I reassmble the engine after checking every thing twice every thing is good and was good I do a compession check, all cylinders are with a couple pounds of each other and it is good and strong.

 

Ok by now I.m completly stumped WTF is doing this. Then it hits me. The PCV Inlet Hose.

 

When I installed the dual inlet air cleaner I used all the stock fittings.

I still have the PCV inlet plumbed to pick air up from in side the air cleaner. DOH

 

What was happening is that I was building enough Ram induction and building enough boost that I was pressurerizing up the crank case and coupled with engine blow by it was creating high enough pressure to sqaush the baffle pan and blow out the rear intake seal.

 

The solution was a old stlye valve cover inlet breather for the PCV.

 

Well that solved the problem no more blown gaskets or mangled Intake baffle pans.

 

The net result was a near 130 MPH 85 GM.

 

That car hauled ass. When it finally came time to sell it, the induction system was yanked and the more sedate stock parts reinstalled Minus the VV carb. it was replaced with a much more reliable 2100 off a 1971 LTD with the 351. A 2150 off a 84 CV gave up it's throttle shaft to get the required AOD linkage.

 

With the cam and the 2100 the car is still no slouch and get high 20's on the hyway. Mitch (wifes cousin) who now has the car just loves it and it is still his daily ride even with gas at $4 a gallon + The car is garaged and washed regularly and still looks as good as when it was freshly painted in 1998. The car was sold shortly after the new paint job.

 

 

 

Matthew

Edited July 11, 2006 by matthewq4b

[FStephenMasek]

The very poor IIHS side wreck test results show that the basic Panther structure is not one to keep. Yes, they tested a car without side air bags, but the structure deformed much worse than the other large cars tested. Interestingly, the Chrysler 300 and Hyundai Azera didn't do nearly as well as I would have expected from new designs. The Five Hundred, Avalon, and Impala (surprise) came out on top.

 

I suggest watching the side wreck test video:

 

http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr061806.html

[Traveler]

The very poor IIHS side wreck test results show that the basic Panther structure is not one to keep. Yes, they tested a car without side air bags, but the structure deformed much worse than the other large cars tested. Interestingly, the Chrysler 300 and Hyundai Azera didn't do nearly as well as I would have expected from new designs. The Five Hundred, Avalon, and Impala (surprise) came out on top.

 

I suggest watching the side wreck test video:

 

http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr061806.html

 

 

Well, NHTSA performs similar tests with similar weighted crash vehicles and the Panther scores well. They test both the air bag and non-air bag and the non-airbag scores 4/5 stars and the air-bag equipped model scores 5/5. Look at the crash numbers and compare them to other sedans in its class. I'll take the IIHS numbers in consideration, but FWIW I'd put my money on the Panther to survive most real-world crashes a lot better than most others it would be compared to. Remember, IIHS isn't the sole standard. The NHTSA numbers are just as reputable...if not even more so depending on who you ask.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Traveler

[matthewq4b]

The very poor IIHS side wreck test results show that the basic Panther structure is not one to keep. Yes, they tested a car without side air bags, but the structure deformed much worse than the other large cars tested. Interestingly, the Chrysler 300 and Hyundai Azera didn't do nearly as well as I would have expected from new designs. The Five Hundred, Avalon, and Impala (surprise) came out on top.

 

I suggest watching the side wreck test video:

 

http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr061806.html

 

It was rated the worst but what do expect from a 14 year old body. The Panther is a CHASSIS and not a body. The Side impact as tested has nothing to do with the chassis and every thing to do with body structure espcially in the BOF CV. You could keep the exact same frame- chassis stuff a new body on it and get totoaly different results.

 

The side impact test just proves that the 14 Year old body was built to different standards.

 

 

The side impacts test as done have to do with body structure and not the chassis.

 

The impact barrier used repesents a suv or pick up. The higher bumper on these units sits above the floor structure of the car. The doors and thier supports are pretty much the only thing absorbing these kind impacts.

 

The fact that CV failed is no surprise at all. But the occupant suffered little or no head trama. I,ll take busted ribs over a bashed head any day. Yup think I would take my chances in the non side air bag CV over the bang your squash off the impacting vehical non air bag 500 any day of the week. It may have been the worst perfomrer in structure but it was not the worst in injury's. The 500 and 300 get that title.

 

Over all considering the CV is competing with cars who's body's are about 15 years it's junior in body design it's showing was damn good.

 

A little tweaking on the B pilliar it's base support and the roof supporting area's and the ratings will jump dramatically.

 

Not a lot bucks needed to spent to fix it.

 

All this proves is that with no improvemnts on the now 14 year old it can still hang with vehicals more than a deacade newer. A few minor tweeks and it will be as good ans any thing else out there for Side impacts..

 

 

Matthew

[taxman100]

Isn't it odd that Ford has done absolutely nothing major to the drivetrain since 1991, the interior since 1995, and the exterior since 1998? Yet they are freaking out over the fact the Five Hundred is not exactly a vehicle anybody considers an aspiration to own.

 

I honestly don't understand what Ford is trying to achieve with their full size sedans.

[StevenJ]

Isn't it odd that Ford has done absolutely nothing major to the drivetrain since 1991, the interior since 1995, and the exterior since 1998? Yet they are freaking out over the fact the Five Hundred is not exactly a vehicle anybody considers an aspiration to own.

 

I honestly don't understand what Ford is trying to achieve with their full size sedans.

 

I think Bill hates RWD sedans that aren't Jaguars. Maybe he's afriad of internal competion or pissing off his wannabe greenie friends that hate Fords to begin with? :shrug:

Edited July 15, 2006 by StevenJ

[youngSTAP]

Hey, the reason why the Panther's are soon to be dead is becuase they don't have any Mazda or Volvo cars to model them after.

 

yS

[02SilverStroke]

Isn't it odd that Ford has done absolutely nothing major to the drivetrain since 1991, the interior since 1995, and the exterior since 1998? Yet they are freaking out over the fact the Five Hundred is not exactly a vehicle anybody considers an aspiration to own.

 

I honestly don't understand what Ford is trying to achieve with their full size sedans.

I guess they feel that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". They have changed the interior a bit. I was at a dealership yesterday and saw a 2006 CV (non LX) that had a tachometer in the instrument panel. In addition, they've ditched two gauges (oil pressure & ammeter). It actually looked pretty good. In addition, the CV was a flexfuel vehicle (E-85 capability). List was around $26K. I do wish Ford would tweak them a bit (add a "Fusion-like" grille, etc.) that would generate a little more interest. Even though the EPA highway mileage is 25, they will get better than this. The 95 CV that I had was also rated 17/25 mpg and usually got 29 on the interstate.

[xstapr]

....AND NOW THE END IS NEAR...THE PANTHER FACES THE FINAL CURTAIN

[7Mary3]

And unfortunately, so is Ford Motor Company........