RWD essentially grounded at Ford?

[jpd80]

Even "best-selling" in Oz comes to what, 80,000 units a year or less? Unique platforms are only giong to become more expensive as time goes by.

Bear in mind that Australia's "SAAR" is roughly 1 million compared to the USA's 10 to 15 million

and that we have nearly all the same car makers down here too.

 

Traditionally, Falcon sales consisted of around 60% base, 30% mid series and 10% upper series.

Falcon product mix has shifted dramatically in the past 12 months where mid and upper series now

dominating the product mix at near 75% and the lowly XT Falcon becoming scarce on the ground.

 

With that type of product mix, Ford AUS has said it is still profitable even below 40,000/year

but, since that up tick in product mix lead by private buyers Ford is now in the envious situation

of having to increase factory production as everything made is sold, there is no inventory stock.

 

I'm not sure that the Falcon platform is that expensive, probably about the same as a Taurus but I think

the real trick is getting your buyers to spend more with each purchase and drop the cheap models.

 

Hypothetical,

If Falcon and Taurus are both evolving towards a similar size and look, why not use that as an advantage.

Ford NA could build both as clones and sell all of them as Taurus available as FWD, AWD and RWD.

Instead of differentiation, why not strive for common market identity?

Edited July 20, 2009 by jpd80

[ANTAUS]

I would hope so considering it's a '00 era design being compared to a newly refreshened '09 MKZ with emphansize of interior materials and quality. I would say as my LS's goes, it's interior at THAT TIME, was pretty nice and every panel was soft touch material compared to it's competition at THAT time.

[RichardJensen]

I still think the Falcon and Mustang could be made to effectively share a platform though. :P

And I would agree, if the Falcon wasn't already sharing a platform with that truck thingy of jpd's and the Territory

[jpd80]

I would hope so considering it's a '00 era design being compared to a newly refreshened '09 MKZ with emphansize of interior materials and quality. I would say as my LS's goes, it's interior at THAT TIME, was pretty nice and every panel was soft touch material compared to it's competition at THAT time.

The DEW platform at THAT TIME was just too expensive for Ford to roll other products.

You'll probably find the MKZ is way more cost effective for Ford than the LS.

Edited July 20, 2009 by jpd80

[NickF1011]

The DEW platform at THAT TIME was just too expensive for Ford to roll other products.

You'll probably find the MKZ is way more cost effective for Ford than the LS.

 

Even a new RWD platform would probably be less costly than DEW98. While the products that used the platform were pretty solid, the program itself was a cost control nightmare.

[jpd80]

Even a new RWD platform would probably be less costly than DEW98. While the products that used the platform were pretty solid, the program itself was a cost control nightmare.

Not dissing the LS mind you, that was a fine product but having just driven the latest luxury Falcon,

I think that car loses nothing to it giving greater performance with Taurus like fuel economy.

[peterstern]

Not dissing the LS mind you, that was a fine product but having just driven the latest luxury Falcon,

I think that car loses nothing to it giving greater performance with Taurus like fuel economy.

 

I was talking to some engineers... one of which is a family member... who knows quite a bit when it comes to volumes and amortization costs.

 

One thing that struck me is that it doesn't make that much of a difference whether your volumes are 50,000 or 100,000 or 500,000. Once you get beyond 50,000, it doesn't make that much of a difference.

 

BUT what does make a HUGE difference I'm told, is if you base your plans on 100,000 and then the market for the given product turns out to be only 75,000 or some other quantity less, THAT is the worst thing you can do.

 

Basically the single most expensive and worst thing you can do in automotive is to NOT have your plant running at 100%.

 

It's better to be set up for 10,000 and sell 10,000 (or more with overtime) rather than be set up for 100,000 but only sell 50,000.

 

So where does that leave us with the Mustang? Well as long as the Mustang keeps selling at least 100,000 a year, it's probably safe from what I've heard/read.

 

But I have to wonder... why couldn't Ford take the Mustang and stretch to the basic design into another model... like a Sedan (which I would call the Torino)?

 

After all, the platform that the Mustang is on started life as a sedan... why not stretch it so an additional model is produced off the same line to ensure maximum plant utilization (like what is done with the Lincoln MKX/Flex/Edge)? Basically I'm envisioning a vehicle that's like a Mustang (but not called a Mustang), 4 doors and maybe a little longer. And the goal for such a vehicle would be to do the stuff the Fusion/Taurus doesn't do as well... Towing/heavy duty service, Performance, Practicality but with some Mustang-like style.

 

That way the benefits are that Ford makes more use of what they already have, they help ensure full utilization of an existing plant and they solve the issue of having a RWD car for people that want it as well as for police. Then if that succeeds, have an IRS version for Lincoln. And all vehicles would use variations of what's already used in the Mustang.

 

This option also avoids the exchange rate nightmare that is possible with importing cars from Australia.

 

I don't think Ford can justify spending lots of money on RWD given CAFE Regs. RWD won't be mainstream 'bread and butter' on the car end as far as I can tell in the future.

 

But to say that Ford needs a RWD platform plan? Nah... why not just work with what they already have?

 

What do you all you think of this? Does it sound realistic or idiotic to you?

[RichardJensen]

Mustang is flexed with the Mazda6 at the AAI JV plant. That's why its VINs all start "1Z" not "1F"

[Tornado]

I was talking to some engineers... one of which is a family member... who knows quite a bit when it comes to volumes and amortization costs.

 

One thing that struck me is that it doesn't make that much of a difference whether your volumes are 50,000 or 100,000 or 500,000. Once you get beyond 50,000, it doesn't make that much of a difference.

 

BUT what does make a HUGE difference I'm told, is if you base your plans on 100,000 and then the market for the given product turns out to be only 75,000 or some other quantity less, THAT is the worst thing you can do.

 

Basically the single most expensive and worst thing you can do in automotive is to NOT have your plant running at 100%.

 

It's better to be set up for 10,000 and sell 10,000 (or more with overtime) rather than be set up for 100,000 but only sell 50,000.

 

So where does that leave us with the Mustang? Well as long as the Mustang keeps selling at least 100,000 a year, it's probably safe from what I've heard/read.

 

But I have to wonder... why couldn't Ford take the Mustang and stretch to the basic design into another model... like a Sedan (which I would call the Torino)?

 

After all, the platform that the Mustang is on started life as a sedan... why not stretch it so an additional model is produced off the same line to ensure maximum plant utilization (like what is done with the Lincoln MKX/Flex/Edge)? Basically I'm envisioning a vehicle that's like a Mustang (but not called a Mustang), 4 doors and maybe a little longer. And the goal for such a vehicle would be to do the stuff the Fusion/Taurus doesn't do as well... Towing/heavy duty service, Performance, Practicality but with some Mustang-like style.

 

That way the benefits are that Ford makes more use of what they already have, they help ensure full utilization of an existing plant and they solve the issue of having a RWD car for people that want it as well as for police. Then if that succeeds, have an IRS version for Lincoln. And all vehicles would use variations of what's already used in the Mustang.

 

This option also avoids the exchange rate nightmare that is possible with importing cars from Australia.

 

I don't think Ford can justify spending lots of money on RWD given CAFE Regs. RWD won't be mainstream 'bread and butter' on the car end as far as I can tell in the future.

 

But to say that Ford needs a RWD platform plan? Nah... why not just work with what they already have?

 

What do you all you think of this? Does it sound realistic or idiotic to you?

 

A four door based on the Mustang would step on the toes of the the Fusion, Milan and MKZ. If you added an IRS it would make a perfect second gen. Lincoln LS, but I think Ford would make more money on the MKZ because it spreads the costs around with more shared platforms. That being said I would love to own an 2012 Lincoln LS w/ EB 3.5L!

[NickF1011]

A four door based on the Mustang would step on the toes of the the Fusion, Milan and MKZ. If you added an IRS it would make a perfect second gen. Lincoln LS, but I think Ford would make more money on the MKZ because it spreads the costs around with more shared platforms. That being said I would love to own an 2012 Lincoln LS w/ EB 3.5L!

 

If there's one place that a midsize RWD can survive alongside a midsize FWD/AWD it's Lincoln. The personality differences you could impose upon those cars could be so vastly different that it's unlikely they would be cross-shopped. The MKZ really doesn't pretend to have any sporting intentions, much like the Lexus ES. A RWD roughly the same size could take on a more IS/GS sort of personality, only, well...better. :lol:

[fubbyo]

Hey Aussies, I'm in school right now, but I'm thinking about working down there for a year or two in the not too distant future. What are current lease deals on an FPV Falcon?

[2b2]

If there's one place that a midsize RWD can survive alongside a midsize FWD/AWD it's Lincoln. The personality differences you could impose upon those cars could be so vastly different that it's unlikely they would be cross-shopped. The MKZ really doesn't pretend to have any sporting intentions, much like the Lexus ES. A RWD roughly the same size could take on a more IS/GS sort of personality, only, well...better. :lol:

+me2

 

in fact, I favor having 2 Rwd's bracketing the MKZ in size...closely:

- the slightly smaller LincStang aka "HRL", &

- the Continental :slobber: :pant:

 

(imho the MKS is temporary & it's long-haitus'ed big brother, the E386, will leave plenty of elbow room between it & the MKZ for the Continental )

[rmc523]

+me2

 

in fact, I favor having 2 Rwd's bracketing the MKZ in size...closely:

- the slightly smaller LincStang aka "HRL", &

- the Continental :slobber: :pant:

 

(imho the MKS is temporary & it's long-haitus'ed big brother, the E386, will leave plenty of elbow room between it & the MKZ for the Continental )

 

There's always the old rumor that a RWD MKR would fit into the lineup alongside the MKZ...

[2b2]

There's always the old rumor that a RWD MKR would fit into the lineup alongside the MKZ...

that's my point, Rmc

I'd rather see the MKR cell-divide into 2 production cars

HRL smaller than the MKR

Continental slightly bigger/roomier (I think - never saw the MKR in the flesh )

[rmc523]

that's my point, Rmc

I'd rather see the MKR cell-divide into 2 production cars

HRL smaller than the MKR

Continental slightly bigger/roomier (I think - never saw the MKR in the flesh )

 

You could follow the Lexus path that way, splitting the market into the ES, and IS/GS, except it'd obviously be the MKZ and MKR.

 

What does HRL mean?

 

It's been 3 years since I've seen the MKR, but I remember it not being huge, but not small, either.

[jpd80]

Hey Aussies, I'm in school right now, but I'm thinking about working down there for a year or two in the not too distant future. What are current lease deals on an FPV Falcon?

They're a bit expensive but a lot of companies have novated lease agreements,

a three way agreement between you, the finance company and your employer.

All lease payments are made in pre tax dollars saving you a bunch of cash.

Catch is that the FPV Falcons are expensive - Approx US$50,000 and your

salary sacrifice could be around US $800/mth, more for fully maintained lease.

 

Focus XR5 Turbo is way cheaper and lots of fun.

 

Some Fords for lease here:

 

Novated lease Deals

 

Edit,

You won't find much on line prices at the moment, the Aussie government is insisting motor dealers

show car prices with all up front costs listed, the old RRP "plus on road costs" is not acceptable any more.

As a result, most on line dealers have retreated to "on application" safety.

Edited July 23, 2009 by jpd80

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Ford neeeeed something RWD to help boost low Mundane Mondeo sales which are a small shadow of the once great Tina/Taunus that used to be Europe's No1

Edited July 23, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds

[Surgen]

Hopefully Ford is looking at that closely. There's no reason that vehicles all over the world can't share many of the same electronics, wiring, and mechanical systems, even if they are vastly different vehicles.

 

I still think the Falcon and Mustang could be made to effectively share a platform though. :P

 

The savings on a platform really come in the underbody -- not having to design and tool multiple versions of these components can drive big savings.

 

Wiring harnesses are going to be largely unique -- there are not a lot of savings in common platforms for wiring.

 

Electronics can be somewhat common without a common platform. A control module for a 'massaging seat' or a blind-spot monitoring system can be used cross-platform.

 

Not sure there is all that much savings with putting Falcon on Mustang on the same platform. Different top-hats, different emmissions and crash, different desire for interior space (2+2 vs. 4-door sedan) and different supplier bases. You might be able to make a business case if you made them both in the same plant.

[NickF1011]

Ford neeeeed something RWD to help boost low Mundane Mondeo sales which are a small shadow of the once great Tina/Taunus that used to be Europe's No1

 

Yeah, because if the Mondeo was RWD, it would certainly be catapulted to the #1 spot in Europe. Care to post that list of Europe's Top 10 selling models again and pointing out all the RWD models?

[2b2]

You could follow the Lexus path that way, splitting the market into the ES, and IS/GS, except it'd obviously be the MKZ and MKR.

 

What does HRL mean?

 

It's been 3 years since I've seen the MKR, but I remember it not being huge, but not small, either.

 

exactly

 

thought we'd been over this - ask your father (actually "daddy" < that's NOT a dig, it's a HINT)

 

I've got the measurements but imho that's only part of the story

 

 

 

&

[armadamaster]

The Taurus and MKS are THE BEST Large sedans available, be greatful for that and go buy one, please!

 

 

The Mustang needs to be moved onto the Panther platform and there's your RWD fix until 2016 when CAFE gets rid of RWD once and for all anyway.

[jpd80]

 

The Mustang needs to be moved onto the Panther platform and there's your RWD fix until 2016 when CAFE gets rid of RWD once and for all anyway.

Ecoboost I-4 Falcon reportedly keeps up well with it's I-6 big brother which keeps up with Panther V8.

Since an I-4 EB Falcon is expected to give better economy than I-4 Camry, RWD is far from dead.

[NickF1011]

 

The Mustang needs to be moved onto the Panther platform and there's your RWD fix until 2016 when CAFE gets rid of RWD once and for all anyway.

 

Okay Armada. You've fallen off your rocker now. Time to go to the Old Panthers Home.

[rmc523]

Okay Armada. You've fallen off your rocker now. Time to go to the Old Panthers Home.

 

Looks like I found a new ignore list member...

[BORG]

Looks like I found a new ignore list member...

 

Yeah, me too.