Ford Jellymoulds Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Ford's issues with its long-time heavy duty diesel engine supplier Navistar will soon be coming to an end. The 2011 edition of the Ford Super Duty pickup will get an all-new diesel V8 designed in-house code-named Scorpion. So now, if Ford has any durability issues with its big diesels, it will have no one to blame but itself. Officially the Scorpion retains the Power Stroke badge, but that and eight cylinders in a V-configuration are all that is carried over. The Scorpion engine picks up a variety of technologies that have been appearing on other recent engines, both gas- and diesel-fueled, as well as adding a few new tricks, particularly the turbocharger. The biggest change for the architecture is the move to an inside-out layout. Since the early days of the V-engine configuration, most examples have had the intake system mounted in the valley between the banks with the exhaust on the outside. Like BMW's new turbocharged gas V8 and GM's current on-the-shelf Duramax 4500, the Scorpion switches this around. Read on after the jump to learn more. LINK Edited August 31, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Also a little surprised that they are able to continue using the Power Stroke name. Even if it is a Ford trademark this might have been a good time to use a different name just to distance themselves from the Navistar reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 would this engine be made available in a non-turbo (naturally aspirated) design? One would think it (the non-turbo version) would be boon to the industrial engine set. Just wondering aloud here as I sip my morning cup of coffee..... :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) And this from Pickuptrucks.com More talk on Scorpion....much more technical with lots of pictures too Edited August 31, 2009 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) would this engine be made available in a non-turbo (naturally aspirated) design? One would think it (the non-turbo version) would be boon to the industrial engine set. Just wondering aloud here as I sip my morning cup of coffee..... :reading: Considering that Ford is shutting down its industrial powertrain sale organization, I would say no. Edited August 31, 2009 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 And this from Pickuptrucks.com More talk on Scorpion....much more technical with lots of pictures too I am fascinated with the twin cooling system. The primary cooling loop cools the engine and operates at about 194 degrees. A secondary 122-degree loop (with its own radiator and water pump) controls the temperatures of the EGR, fuel and transmission coolers and a brand new air-to-water charge air cooler that replaces the previous air-to-air intercooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The reverse flow layout makes a N/A version of this engine a bit more difficult and doesn't bring a lot of packaging advantages. With the turbo mounted high up like it is, I doubt that we'll ever see this engine in an E-series that doesn't receive a substantial makeover of its engine box. I guess that its technically possible that they could go to a smaller, more compact turbo for such an application, but that would involve a whole lot of emissions tuning to make work right. I would imagine that it would be cheaper over the long run to just drag out the currently frozen 4.4L diesel project and use that one instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 ...With the turbo mounted high up like it is, I doubt that we'll ever see this engine in an E-series ... Roger ! I would imagine that it would be cheaper over the long run to just drag out the currently frozen 4.4L diesel project and use that one instead. With rumors that the E Series is a dead man walking, that is not likely to ever happen (although that WAS the original plan). I can't wait to see to see what powertrains Ford is going to offer in the US version of the Transit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Roger ! With rumors that the E Series is a dead man walking, that is not likely to ever happen (although that WAS the original plan). I can't wait to see to see what powertrains Ford is going to offer in the US version of the Transit. Will this supposed "global" Transit be available as an RV cutaway with any capacity near the current E350 or E450? Or do you think they'll just try to sell an F350, F450 or F550 as an RV cutaway instead? An F550/Scorpion Class C would make a pretty nice RV. Picture of F550 Class C Motorhome Edited August 31, 2009 by NLPRacing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 If this won't fit in an E-Series, it sure as shooting won't fit in a Transit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 If this won't fit in an E-Series, it sure as shooting won't fit in a Transit Hence my comment about I can't wait to see what powertrains will be offered. Nothing official, but I'll bet the delay in the "new" Transit for EU had a lot to do with making certain that US "appropriate" powertrains would fit ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Would the 4.4 fit in the transit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Is this PR release about the Scorpion earlier in the cycle than usual? They still need to sell 6.4 SuperDutys for a while. Job one for the '11 Superduty is February 2010. The 6.2 gas engine is due out before that (in the Raptor) and we haven't gotten any official press release about it have we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 ^^ with the Super duty debuting in a couple weeks, it doesnt surprise me that they did release the story of the engine. And they have relase info/pictures of the 6.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 If this won't fit in an E-Series, it sure as shooting won't fit in a Transit Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I am fascinated with the twin cooling system. I don't know, but wonder if they are trying to increase performance by keeping the head cooler than the block. A cool head will allow air to flow in easier and combustion to occur with fewer NOx. A hotter block will reduce losses during the power stroke caused by heat loss to the block. You get more powerful and fuel efficient engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Odd, this engine has 4 valves per cylinder and push rods. The new big gasoline engine has 2 Valves Per cylinder and I think OHC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Great engine for Monster trucks. Now they need a small engine for fuel efficiency. Maybe a 4.0 L V6 Diesel. With a modern engine design, a 4.0 L turbo diesel will still get outstanding power and torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Would the 4.4 fit in the transit? It would fit in a XXL Transit which only uses a 2.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procyon Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 And this from Pickuptrucks.com More talk on Scorpion....much more technical with lots of pictures too 32 pushrods! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I guess my thread wasn't good enough: :shrug: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...showtopic=34722 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Would the 4.4 fit in the transit? Not the current Transit. I4/I5 engines only. 4.4L definitely fit in the E Series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Is this PR release about the Scorpion earlier in the cycle than usual? They still need to sell 6.4 SuperDutys for a while. They can only sell SuperDutys built prior to Jan 1, 2010 with the 6.4L diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I am fascinated with the twin cooling system. The primary cooling loop cools the engine and operates at about 194 degrees. A secondary 122-degree loop (with its own radiator and water pump) controls the temperatures of the EGR, fuel and transmission coolers and a brand new air-to-water charge air cooler that replaces the previous air-to-air intercooler I don't know, but wonder if they are trying to increase performance by keeping the head cooler than the block.... You missed the quote. The second cooling system is for the inlet air charge, fuel, transmission fluid and EGR. Not the cylinder heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inselaffe Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Odd, this engine has 4 valves per cylinder and push rods. This is very common in Commercial and Industrial diesels. What isn't so common is the four rocker arms and four pushrods, usually there are two rocker arms one actuating a pair of inlet valves and the other a pair of exhaust valves with a bridge piece. The advantage I see with this is that the rocker arms are cheaper and it may have advantage in valvetrain reciprocating mass & stiffness. However it does mean using four pushrods per cylinder and with the clearance this requires it reduces the available width for the exhaust port. Edited August 31, 2009 by Inselaffe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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