TomServo92 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I was thinking today back when GM's Kappa twins (Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky for those who don't know) were introduced, many so-called Internet forum pundits proclaimed that they would destroy the Miata. With the death of Saturn, I only have one thing to say... May the best car win won :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well, the Kappa cars for the most part DID outsell the MX-5. They shouldn't be blamed for the complete mismanagement of the rest of the company that led to their demise. I still wish Ford had something like them in their lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well, the Kappa cars for the most part DID outsell the MX-5. They shouldn't be blamed for the complete mismanagement of the rest of the company that led to their demise. I still wish Ford had something like them in their lineup. That's essentially the point of my post and is why I butchered up GMs current ad slogan (it's also why I mentioned the brands in the title and the not the products). It takes more than a good product to be successful. GM has turned out some great products in the past few years but their inability to manage their brands sinks them. The Kappas are the poster children for GM managerial incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I saw a Saturn Sky just yesterday. I see one of those maybe every 60 days around here. But I thought it looked better than the Miata. It has a more muscular stance, without being a muscle car. I like it better than a Crossfire too. I'm hoping with Mazda and Ford growing apart, Ford will decide to make some small 2 seater similar to the Miata. Doesn't have to be same platform as Miata. There's lots of platform options. However, given the small market, I don't really see Ford doing this for another 5 years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 The Kappas are the poster children for GM managerial incompetence. How do you figure? They were good products. They were marketed well. They sold decently for awhile. They just happened to be in brands that will no longer exist in another year. Had either of the Kappas been a Chevy, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 How do you figure? They were good products. They were marketed well. They sold decently for awhile. They just happened to be in brands that will no longer exist in another year. Had either of the Kappas been a Chevy, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Ok, am I speaking english? I'm criticizing GM's brand managment not the Kappas. The Kappas are the victims of GMs mis-management. Does that clarify it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Ok, am I speaking english? I'm criticizing GM's brand managment not the Kappas. The Kappas are the victims of GMs mis-management. Does that clarify it? You are speaking confusing English. Why didn't you word it that way the first time? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 You are speaking confusing English. Why didn't you word it that way the first time? :lol: Maybe I'm suffering from forum posting aphasia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 The Kappa cars show that halo cars, 'gee whiz bang', and "Auto Show home runs" do not save a company. All the $$ into these cars could have been used for better volume sellers, then bring out the toys. Miata got Mazda attention, but they had volume cars to back it up. And when Mazda needed help, the new 6 and 3 sedans brought in the bacon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 The Kappa cars show that halo cars, 'gee whiz bang', and "Auto Show home runs" do not save a company. All the $$ into these cars could have been used for better volume sellers, then bring out the toys. Which is indicative of GM's bad management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I wasn't too fond of the 3rd generation Miata (2004+). The exterior is OK, but I really don't like the interior. The Sky and Solstice do look better IMHO. But the Miata is still the better sports car. The GM cars lack the finess, agility and composure of a Miata. Quite honestly, with their clutch/shifter it's better suited with an automatic....not a good thing for a sports car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I wasn't too fond of the 3rd generation Miata (2004+). The exterior is OK, but I really don't like the interior. The Sky and Solstice do look better IMHO. But the Miata is still the better sports car. The GM cars lack the finess, agility and composure of a Miata. Quite honestly, with their clutch/shifter it's better suited with an automatic....not a good thing for a sports car! The sky/SOlstice cars where waaaaaaay too small. I even refused a test drive for a Miata because no amount of driving fun was going to get me to sit 8" from the street and crack the heck out of my knees getting into & out of it every day. An "American-Sized" Thunderbird would be most welcomed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 The Kappa cars show that halo cars, 'gee whiz bang', and "Auto Show home runs" do not save a company. All the $$ into these cars could have been used for better volume sellers, then bring out the toys. Miata got Mazda attention, but they had volume cars to back it up. And when Mazda needed help, the new 6 and 3 sedans brought in the bacon. I don't know about that. When the MX-5 initially launched, the rest of Mazda's lineup was pretty much a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I was thinking today back when GM's Kappa twins (Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky for those who don't know) were introduced, many so-called Internet forum pundits proclaimed that they would destroy the Miata. With the death of Saturn, I only have one thing to say... May the best car win won :shades: :yup: The Kappa twins should be remembered more for destroying their rear differential pinion gears than for destroying the MX-5. I guess the Kappas were better than the MX-5 in one sense: if you *really* want to relive the 1960s British roadster experience of having your new sports car in the shop at least as often as on the road, GM provides the 21st century incarnation of this "character" element in the Solstice and Sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 :yup: The Kappa twins should be remembered more for destroying their rear differential pinion gears than for destroying the MX-5. I guess the Kappas were better than the MX-5 in one sense: if you *really* want to relive the 1960s British roadster experience of having your new sports car in the shop at least as often as on the road, GM provides the 21st century incarnation of this "character" element in the Solstice and Sky. Oh come on. It's not like the MX-5 has been known as the pinnacle of automotive reliability either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Oh come on. It's not like the MX-5 has been known as the pinnacle of automotive reliability either. I don't know about your definition of "pinnacle" (is it the world's absolutely MOST reliable car? No, but it is very reliable, and the most reliable SPORTS CAR)...."Experts can hardly believe a roadster this inexpensive can be this incredible to drive -- not to mention that it's reliable and easy on gas. Reviewers recommend the Mazda MX-5 Miata more than any other convertible." http://www.consumersearch.com/convertibles...azda-mx-5-miata Edited October 6, 2009 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I don't know about your definition of "pinnacle" (is it the world's absolutely MOST reliable car? No, but it is very reliable, and the most reliable SPORTS CAR)...."Experts can hardly believe a roadster this inexpensive can be this incredible to drive -- not to mention that it's reliable and easy on gas. Reviewers recommend the Mazda MX-5 Miata more than any other convertible." http://www.consumersearch.com/convertibles...azda-mx-5-miata :rolleyes: Compared to what though? Sure, it's reliable...for a sports car. It's probably the most trouble-prone vehicle in Mazda's lineup aside from the RX-8 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Oh come on. It's not like the MX-5 has been known as the pinnacle of automotive reliability either. I found some interesting (and somewhat contradictory) results from J.D. Power and Consumer Reports. In the latter's 2008 automobile reliability survey (published in the April '09 issue), the MX-5 had 'better than average' or 'much better than average' verdicts for all model years 2003 to 2008. The Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky rated 'much worse than average' each model year (2006 to 2008) in which they were eligible. Now, J.D. Power's 2009 VDS rated the 2006 MX-5 first in the 'Compact Sporty Car' category, followed by the Subaru Impreza, and the Pontiac Solstice (go figure)! The MX-5 ranked best in class in the 2008, 2007, 2006, and 2005 VDS as well. So, TomServo92's point remains: the best car won! And that's why MX-5 owners can take Seita Kanai's cheer "The Roadster is forever" to heart, while those folks deluded enough to get a GM Kappa instead cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I found some interesting (and somewhat contradictory) results from J.D. Power and Consumer Reports. In the latter's 2008 automobile reliability survey (published in the April '09 issue), the MX-5 had 'better than average' or 'much better than average' verdicts for all model years 2003 to 2008. The Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky rated 'much worse than average' each model year (2006 to 2008) in which they were eligible. Now, J.D. Power's 2009 VDS rated the 2006 MX-5 first in the 'Compact Sporty Car' category, followed by the Subaru Impreza, and the Pontiac Solstice (go figure)! The MX-5 ranked best in class in the 2008, 2007, 2006, and 2005 VDS as well. So, TomServo92's point remains: the best car won! And that's why MX-5 owners can take Seita Kanai's cheer "The Roadster is forever" to heart, while those folks deluded enough to get a GM Kappa instead cannot. Again, apples to apples. What is accepted as "reliable" for a sports car would probably fail on every count for a midsize sedan. I guess I'm just anti-MX-5. I think it looks ridiculously outdated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Considering the numbers it sells, Mazda wouldnt want to invest too much into it. They have a loyal following as well, so tweaking the styling, or formula might rock the world a bit for some people. I too think it's long in the tooth. I'm hoping once Ford becomes more active in phasing in their 1.4L Egoboost, Mazda might get motived and place one of those on the MX5-Miata. And speaking of getting old, the RX8 which I have always liked it's styling is being let down by a underperforming powertrain. I'm hoping Mazda can quite the "Rotary" BS and just stick a normal engine...like a 2.0L Egoboost....because the 203-220HP 1.3L Rotary isn't cutting it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Considering the numbers it sells, Mazda wouldnt want to invest too much into it. They have a loyal following as well, so tweaking the styling, or formula might rock the world a bit for some people. I too think it's long in the tooth. I'm hoping once Ford becomes more active in phasing in their 1.4L Egoboost, Mazda might get motived and place one of those on the MX5-Miata. And speaking of getting old, the RX8 which I have always liked it's styling is being let down by a underperforming powertrain. I'm hoping Mazda can quite the "Rotary" BS and just stick a normal engine...like a 2.0L Egoboost....because the 203-220HP 1.3L Rotary isn't cutting it anymore. I know this isn't the right thread, but you using the term "EgoBoost" made me think of it......in that "6 vs. 8" video about the MKS, did you notice in the powertrain video (whichever number it was) that someone had colored in part of the "C" to make a "G" (to form "EGOBOOST") on one of the door nameplates at one of the testing facilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswhoscomingtodinner Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 As an owner of a MX-5, one of the biggest beauties in the car is the fantastic roof design. Pure simplicity and ease of use. WHILE driving you can lower and raise the top with just one hand. The Pontiac and Saturn are the polar opposite, and an example of everything NOT to do when designing a convertible top. Utterly unacceptable top design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 As an owner of a MX-5, one of the biggest beauties in the car is the fantastic roof design. Pure simplicity and ease of use. WHILE driving you can lower and raise the top with just one hand. The Pontiac and Saturn are the polar opposite, and an example of everything NOT to do when designing a convertible top. Utterly unacceptable top design. They are a hoot to drive (MX-5 that is) too, I'll definitely give them that. Feel like street legal go-carts. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I know this isn't the right thread, but you using the term "EgoBoost" made me think of it......in that "6 vs. 8" video about the MKS, did you notice in the powertrain video (whichever number it was) that someone had colored in part of the "C" to make a "G" (to form "EGOBOOST") on one of the door nameplates at one of the testing facilities? Didnt notice till you pointed it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Didnt notice till you pointed it out Yeah, I don't know why I noticed that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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