UAW demanding Ford restore pay/benefits like white-collar staff

[tbldbxorntnap]

You are correct, this is for the M-10 program and I know the units are driven home for evaluation. Please don't tell me that they are driven straight home. Seriously? Come on, really? No golf games after work, no meet and greets at the bar, no passengers...hmmm Sorry but you are absolutely 100% wrong. Oh, I forgot to mention nearby casinos also. M-10 program has limited the miles a car can be driven but if an employee still drives it back and forth within the 50 miles or plus, this is all covered. No passengers LOL LOL LOL. I'm sure that hourly do get these cars once in a while but clearly not 5 days a week. Yes, I know they are not driven home on the weekend ; )

Maybe they don't now allow the employee's to drive them home on weekends but they use too lol, I remeber at NAP they let this hourly guy take a 96 F150 4x4 home for the weekend and all hell broke loose when he brought it back the following monday, It was literally covered in mud and grass from the body to the under carridge, he had been 4 wheeling over the weekend lol took them a half a day just to clean it up.

[nvsked]

I did not try and compare - I was trying to put out additional information. You stated:

.

 

I don't know how your insurance works, but I do know how mine works. There are currently 3 plans offered that have various employee premiums and deductible. I have the middle plan where I pay $70/check and I'm responsible for the 1st $2300 out of pocket. After that it is co-insurance 80/20 up to an out of pocket max. I do have an additional $100/check put into an HSA account to hopefully cover the costs. I'm not a contract employee. I can try an download a pdf of our options later if you'd really like to see it.

 

I'm not offended, and I really hope I haven't offended anyone here. I I think the UAW is a benefit to Ford. I like to share my perspective from a salaried side, but with out trying to say one is better than the other. I truly feel both are necessary. There are many things I don't agree with that the UAW tries to push, that Ford corporate tries to push, and things between Ford and our dealers.

 

Your post is pretty long and hits more points than I can answer in one post. If you have a specific question about a program, I'll share to the best of my ability. A key point to remember is that there are over 22K salaried employees. Most of them are not LL6+ employees and most don't work at a plant. You may have a better feel for how these employees are rewarded, but they are a small portion of the salaried workforce. Once again, I believe that the salaried, hourly, suppliers and dealers play a crucial role in Ford's success. Thanks.

 

Quality post Marginal...I know the salary folks have had to endure some cuts in benefits and I don't begrudge you any return of benefits lost. Thanks for keeping it out of the gutter have a good one

[theoldwizard]

I am not sure what position you hold but to pay $2300 out of pocket for office visits, unless you are contract, is not happening.

This is the standard Ford Medical Plan for Salaried employees. Any other plan cost money, up front, out of you own pocket.

You are compensated even standing in an airport and all the time it takes to fly,

Maybe. Highly unlikely. I'm retired now, but I took more than a few trips including about a dozen international. Almost all were on weekends or late in the day. Back then international flew business class. Today it is coach only.

I know that the cost to fly a spouse out of town used to be free but I'm sure it is not now.

My wife never went on a trip with me. It was only free if you you flew the corporate plane and there was space available.

Certain salaried people get to drive the vehicles home that are built by the plant, included is insurance, gas allowance, and discounts for other drivers in the home.

If it is a test car, non-Ford employees are prohibited from driving it. Management lease (and most salaried are NOT management) is a different story.

Some salaried employees are exempt and non exempt from overtime.

Very few salaried employees are non-exempt (i.e. the company must pay them overtime). I know a lot of engineers who were working 60+ hours almost every week last year and not getting any compensation for it. Even when they are told that they can get time off in the future, they are rarely able to take it and it expires at then end of the year.

 

No one is saying blue collar does not deserve their pay and benefits (which is now higher than all of your fellow workers at GM and Chrysler). Just because you may have met one or two "sub standard" high collars in your career, don't paint them all with the same brush. That is just being prejudice !

Edited January 24, 2010 by theoldwizard

[theoldwizard]

You are correct, this is for the M-10 program and I know the units are driven home for evaluation. Please don't tell me that they are driven straight home. Seriously? Come on, really? No golf games after work, no meet and greets at the bar, no passengers...hmmm Sorry but you are absolutely 100% wrong.

If you are so certain that the system is being abused, why not report it ? There is an 800 number to report abuses of company policy.

 

Better yet, get a local TV news crew to video it.

[1993Stang]

Wrong I drove one 5 days a week.

 

So what?? Your an hourly that drove a car home 5 days a week than was insured and all costs covered, your point being?? I was just pointing out that you were wrong that they are not driven straight home. Sorry to burst your bubble, but if pointing out the truth hurts you then you as an rn can surely take something for the pain.

[1993Stang]

If you are so certain that the system is being abused, why not report it ? There is an 800 number to report abuses of company policy.

 

Better yet, get a local TV news crew to video it.

 

Why should I video this. You clearly do not hang out at the bars of your fellow co workers? And I'm not saying they are always drinking either. After work meetings and get togethers happen all the time. My point is that this is clearly a perk that is given more frequently to the salaried folks compared to the hourly. Why do I need an 800 #. I pretty sure I can say without a doubt I already know it. Is it abuse, I wasn't sure that it was, I just simply commented that driving straight home was fictional.

[1993Stang]

Wrong I drove one 5 days a week.

 

I'm assuming that you are an rn from maybe gate 4 if that is what the 4 stands for, if in fact you do drive one home five days a week you have proven my point. Nurses are salaried and some are contract and some are Ford represented by the U.A.W.

[Fordemployee189]

Woodhaven stamping started collecting signatures yesterday.

 

 

AAI members are laid off for two weeks.........will they be collecting signatures when we return in two weeks????

[Len_A]

This is the standard Ford Medical Plan for Salaried employees. Any other plan cost money, up front, out of you own pocket.

 

Maybe. Highly unlikely. I'm retired now, but I took more than a few trips including about a dozen international. Almost all were on weekends or late in the day. Back then international flew business class. Today it is coach only.

 

My wife never went on a trip with me. It was only free if you you flew the corporate plane and there was space available.

 

If it is a test car, non-Ford employees are prohibited from driving it. Management lease (and most salaried are NOT management) is a different story.

 

Very few salaried employees are non-exempt (i.e. the company must pay them overtime). I know a lot of engineers who were working 60+ hours almost every week last year and not getting any compensation for it. Even when they are told that they can get time off in the future, they are rarely able to take it and it expires at then end of the year.

 

No one is saying blue collar does not deserve their pay and benefits (which is now higher than all of your fellow workers at GM and Chrysler). Just because you may have met one or two "sub standard" high collars in your career, don't paint them all with the same brush. That is just being prejudice !

Extremely Well Said.

[kpc655]

http://www.freep.com/article/20100122/BUSINESS0102/100122058/1319/UAW-to-demand-Ford-restore-pay-benefits-similar-to-white-collar-staff

 

What's good for the goose.....

 

but the white collar ranks were right sized and thus are not burdened with too many employees.

 

that is still not the case with hourly. remind me again how many people took the recent buyouts?

[mcanton40]

This is the standard Ford Medical Plan for Salaried employees. Any other plan cost money, up front, out of you own pocket.

 

Maybe. Highly unlikely. I'm retired now, but I took more than a few trips including about a dozen international. Almost all were on weekends or late in the day. Back then international flew business class. Today it is coach only.

 

My wife never went on a trip with me. It was only free if you you flew the corporate plane and there was space available.

 

If it is a test car, non-Ford employees are prohibited from driving it. Management lease (and most salaried are NOT management) is a different story.

 

Very few salaried employees are non-exempt (i.e. the company must pay them overtime). I know a lot of engineers who were working 60+ hours almost every week last year and not getting any compensation for it. Even when they are told that they can get time off in the future, they are rarely able to take it and it expires at then end of the year.

 

No one is saying blue collar does not deserve their pay and benefits (which is now higher than all of your fellow workers at GM and Chrysler). Just because you may have met one or two "sub standard" high collars in your career, don't paint them all with the same brush. That is just being prejudice !

[mcanton40]

Even the Nom-Exempt Salary techs who work the weekends in testing are asked to take a day or two off during the week to cover the weekend work so they don't pay the overtime. Happening all over the VEV labs.

[Pioneer]

Even the Nom-Exempt Salary techs who work the weekends in testing are asked to take a day or two off during the week to cover the weekend work so they don't pay the overtime. Happening all over the VEV labs.

 

 

It happens all throughout the company. Powerhouse personal and PSO's are on 7 day operations, along with some trades at plants that have alternative schedules like DTP, DEFT and DDMP.

[Maislebandit]

but the white collar ranks were right sized and thus are not burdened with too many employees.

 

that is still not the case with hourly. remind me again how many people took the recent buyouts?

 

 

And what would be the number that they would consider not to be a burden?

 

Are you honestly saying that hourly #'s are too high?

 

As far as I am concerned, Ford is thinning it's ranks not because it needs thinning, but to replace as many of those jobs with lower wage new hires.

[kpc655]

And what would be the number that they would consider not to be a burden?

 

Are you honestly saying that hourly #'s are too high?

 

As far as I am concerned, Ford is thinning it's ranks not because it needs thinning, but to replace as many of those jobs with lower wage new hires.

 

yes, the #'s are too high

 

even if you don't believe that, why should ford pay higher wages when another American would happily do the same job for less? (if you're reason is to be believed)

[Pioneer]

but the white collar ranks were right sized and thus are not burdened with too many employees.

 

that is still not the case with hourly. remind me again how many people took the recent buyouts?

 

 

The buyouts were offered to make way for new hires, not because there are too many hourly.

 

As for white collar right sized, have you been out on the floor lately? Supervisors are tripping over each other there are so many.

[1993Stang]

This is the standard Ford Medical Plan for Salaried employees. Any other plan cost money, up front, out of you own pocket.

 

Maybe. Highly unlikely. I'm retired now, but I took more than a few trips including about a dozen international. Almost all were on weekends or late in the day. Back then international flew business class. Today it is coach only.

 

My wife never went on a trip with me. It was only free if you you flew the corporate plane and there was space available.

 

If it is a test car, non-Ford employees are prohibited from driving it. Management lease (and most salaried are NOT management) is a different story.

 

Very few salaried employees are non-exempt (i.e. the company must pay them overtime). I know a lot of engineers who were working 60+ hours almost every week last year and not getting any compensation for it. Even when they are told that they can get time off in the future, they are rarely able to take it and it expires at then end of the year.

 

No one is saying blue collar does not deserve their pay and benefits (which is now higher than all of your fellow workers at GM and Chrysler). Just because you may have met one or two "sub standard" high collars in your career, don't paint them all with the same brush. That is just being prejudice !

 

So you are retired and paying $2300.00 out of pocket for benefits. We are talking about current salaried employees who do not pay $2300.00 out of pocket as far as I know. I never said non-employees drive the cars, I said management that drives the plant cars back and forth don't always go straight home, the many hours they work come back with the merit raises when it comes to evaluation time, the many hours hourly work = no raises, I have never painted any salaried either way, I'm not prejudice what so ever. I know what it is like to be salaried and hourly. I know what is being given currently to retirees on the hourly side as well as the salaried side. I have relatives throughout Ford Motor Company that keep me in the loop. I have had relatives on both sides of my family disagree with each other about what each other has and does not. I don't agree with the $2300.00 out of pocket expense, that is just too much out of your pocket of any one for that matter. This whole conversation started when I cleared up 3 facts that you gave. You said "Hourly receives COLA", I responded they do not, along with "hourly get paid overtime", only after 40 hours, most plants are working only 40 hours, co pays of current hourly personnel depending on the plan have co-pays a little higher than salaried, again it depends on what plan. I'm not complaining about your spouse going on a corporate jet with you back in the day. I said"compensation is paid."

[1993Stang]

The buyouts were offered to make way for new hires, not because there are too many hourly.

 

As for white collar right sized, have you been out on the floor lately? Supervisors are tripping over each other there are so many.

 

You are exactly right Pioneer. If there are 21,000 plus white collar and 41,000 production how can it just be the hourly that are not right sized? The company certainly does not need a 1:1 ratio to work. It is almost a 1:2 now. They are buying out hourly to make room for less wage earning employees. If there were too many hourly employees, then why would they hire more workers with less pay, your overcapacity of the hourly workers just does not add up. How is it that the hourly employees have to point this out to people who disagree, shouldn't anyone have figured this out by now??

[Hawk00]

 

 

, why should ford pay higher wages when another American would happily do the same job for less? (if you're reason is to be believed)

 

LOL. There is so much irony and hypocrisy in your statement it's hard to know where to start. We can say the exact same thing about white collar obviously. And don't say there arn't more competent people out there than the majority of supervisors.

[Maislebandit]

yes, the #'s are too high

 

 

 

You will let us all know how that crow tastes won't you?

[kpc655]

The buyouts were offered to make way for new hires, not because there are too many hourly.

 

As for white collar right sized, have you been out on the floor lately? Supervisors are tripping over each other there are so many.

 

makes sense and i'm sure that's part of it. there's people willing to do these jobs for less pay.

 

let's hope it happens. it's good for ford and ford customers

Edited January 26, 2010 by kpc655

[kpc655]

You will let us all know how that crow tastes won't you?

 

are you saying ford doesn't have too much capacity?

[Maislebandit]

are you saying ford doesn't have too much capacity?

 

Well, we were talking hourly #'s, not capacity. Capacity is the whole infrastructure. Operations, machinery, etc.

 

We have too much capacity vs. hourly #'s. This is why the line speeds are down so low. People need it to go slower, so they can take on the work that other people used to do. People that have retired, died or have taken buyouts have not been being replaced.

 

The very short of it is, our current trade laws/agreements have made it beneficial for corporations to offshore work.

 

If change is not brought about fairly soon, you may be right. The number they will want will be zero. The current population at Ford will be the last generation of their American manufacturing operations. We could essentially work for free and it still would not be good enough. What they pay in health insurance for us alone is too much compared to what you can get for labor overseas, which is essentially slave labor.

 

Like I said, you might be right. We better hope you're not though. I say WE because without hourly, you don't really think they would need YOU, do you?

 

Not trying to be rude, but please take off the blinders and try to see the big picture....

 

 

 

And don't worry, it will probably taste like chicken anyway!

[kpc655]

Well, we were talking hourly #'s, not capacity. Capacity is the whole infrastructure. Operations, machinery, etc.

 

We have too much capacity vs. hourly #'s. This is why the line speeds are down so low. People need it to go slower, so they can take on the work that other people used to do. People that have retired, died or have taken buyouts have not been being replaced.

 

The very short of it is, our current trade laws/agreements have made it beneficial for corporations to offshore work.

 

If change is not brought about fairly soon, you may be right. The number they will want will be zero. The current population at Ford will be the last generation of their American manufacturing operations. We could essentially work for free and it still would not be good enough. What they pay in health insurance for us alone is too much compared to what you can get for labor overseas, which is essentially slave labor.

 

Like I said, you might be right. We better hope you're not though. I say WE because without hourly, you don't really think they would need YOU, do you?

 

Not trying to be rude, but please take off the blinders and try to see the big picture....

 

 

 

And don't worry, it will probably taste like chicken anyway!

 

 

good points.

 

i just see a very basic problem where, if one looks at ford's total capacity, it's still far above what they need. whether vehicle assembly, engine assembly, stamping etc. machines and equipment can be idled short term..but the cost burden largely remains. whereas, theoretically, employment levels can always be adjusted.

 

i would expect to see ford further consolidating total capacity in the future which includes employment levels. if sales are not expected to significantly improve in the near term they must address the idled capacity issue.

[jerrymaker]

when will the membership be able to vote for the people who work downtown (uaw)? Why can't we (the membership) elect a president?