Profit Sharing

[FASTBACK]

Ford only made $454 million without special one-time items. They have accounting tricks that will make sure we never see another substantial profit sharing check.

I believe in one of our concessions that they removed ford motor credit profits from our profit sharing formula which will probably reduce our profit sharing considerably.

[Marginal Economist]

So why is it that everyone assumes that the salaried employees have not "given" concessions ? Actually, they didn't give a thing. It was just "taken".

 

 

No, I am not. But I have relatives and close friends who are current salaried employees so I know what is going on.

[/quote

 

THIS FORUM IS FOR FORD EMPLOYEES ONLY! There are other forums that you can post to on this site!

You are better than this. Don't be that guy. Retirees are always welcome.

[Marginal Economist]

I know that lower salary has taken a hit. Never stated otherwise. Just pointing out that you overlooked our previous consession, And seemed to blast us for turning the minor one down.

 

 

And so you know, Ford will never be debt free as long as they are in buisness. :shades:

 

You are exactly right. And a small amount of debt is fine. Our debt exceeds our cash by approximatley $8B. GM has 13B more cash than debt, Toyota 15B, and VW 19B. We are on the worng side of the tracks. Over 2B will go toward financing this debt next year. This is cash that should be used for R&D, capital spending, and some toward employee compensation. The sooner we can get this elephant out of the room, the better.

[lquidspine]

Compensating your employees (including benefits) at a rate similar to your competition is good business. I don't think it is "frivolous".

 

Remember, Ford UAW employees make more than either GM or Chrysler UAW employees. I don't think these changes are going to make Ford salaried employee much higher compensated than GM or Chrysler salaried employees. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

You want a copy of Chrysler's modified contract ? they took the same cuts we took in early 2009

 

You still have a union protecting your job. Salaried has no such shield. And yes, in recent years they have let salaried employees go with very little fanfare.

With buy out options the same they did with hourly buy outs, those that stayed chose to because they had nothing better lined up. Besides if salaried workers wanted the benefits that the UAW provides they can become unionized, but they choose not to do so.

 

 

There is a couple of years to go before then. You can bet that Ford will want pay and benefits inline with what GM and Chrysler UAW employees get.

The only difference is GM and Chrysler new hires have a pay freeze in effect until 2015, that is the only differance between the 3 contracts that has a direct monetary impact.....assuming of course Ford, GM and Chrysler will have a great need for new hires between now and 2015.

[1993Stang]

So why is it that everyone assumes that the salaried employees have not "given" concessions ? Actually, they didn't give a thing. It was just "taken".

 

 

No, I am not. But I have relatives and close friends who are current salaried employees so I know what is going on.

 

So organize already. But stop your nonsense about what they have compared to what we have, mentality. Why do you insist on bringing up salaried compared to hourly? Spare me the educational background crap. I hate that argument. Many hourly are educated! Just as many salaried folk tell the hourly to quit if you don't like it, the salary have that same option. Why do you continue to speak about what is happening to close friends and relatives. They should be happy that they are working...isn't that what you have said to the hourly on this forum? Why would you think for one second that the U.A.W. members would not ask for their concessions returned.? They pay union dues, they have representation, the company is showing signs of a turn around, they have restored money and benefits to employees of Ford Motor Company, so why is it so wrong to ask for it back?? Nobody has assumed that all employees have not taken concessions?

 

Your own words were wrong the other day when you said that there are too many hourly when CAP needs 1200 more people. This will call for more salaried employees as well. I'm really trying very hard to see what your anger issues are towards the U.A.W. members? Please enlighten me? If salaried wanted to bust there ass on a line, why did they interview for a salaried position? Honestly, why did they? Was it that since they have an education, they felt it was too below them? There are 41,000 hard working people busting there butt to put food on their table, to send their kids to college, to continue their dreams of their children becoming successful, or are their just to have a successful life with just the basic decent living wage and you want to continue to endlessly compare. Why?

[theoldwizard]

I'm really trying very hard to see what your anger issues are towards the U.A.W. members? Please enlighten me?

I'm not angry at UAW members. Just those that assume because Ford has restored some benefits and pay to salaried employees that this automatically means they open the current contract and institute hourly "profit sharing". Frankly, I am amazed that during the previous round of concession the UAW did not demand some kind of restoration of cuts based on corporate profitability.

 

Your contract protects you during down time. You contract limits you during up time. Hirer better negotiators.

 

If salaried wanted to bust there ass on a line, why did they interview for a salaried position? Honestly, why did they? Was it that since they have an education, they felt it was too below them? There are 41,000 hard working people busting there butt to put food on their table, to send their kids to college, to continue their dreams of their children becoming successful, or are their just to have a successful life with just the basic decent living wage and you want to continue to endlessly compare. Why?

You are implying that salaried workers are not "busting their butt to put food on their table". I never said that about hourly.

 

Maybe the white collars you see at your facility are lazy, fat cats, but I guarantee you that there are thousands of hard working (maybe not with their back and hands) white collar workers that working very hard and have contributed to Ford' recent profits.

[Maislebandit]

I'm not angry at UAW members. Just those that assume because Ford has restored some benefits and pay to salaried employees that this automatically means they open the current contract and institute hourly "profit sharing".

 

You are way off here wiz. The contract does not need opening to institute profit sharing. This is one of the few things that were not given back.

 

So, is it wrong to want something that was negotiated in good faith?

 

As far as pay and bennie givebacks goes, this thread is supposed to be about profit sharing. Maybe you could start a new thread and enlighten everyone why it is ok to give back to one group of employees and not the other, knowing full well that both groups have given back over the last few years.

[Pioneer]

Maybe you could start a new thread and enlighten everyone why it is ok to give back to one group of employees and not the other, knowing full well that both groups have given back over the last few years.

 

And also explain why we should not demand our givebacks be returned while Ford bargained with the International in bad faith. Knowing full well they were giving white collar back their stuff and knowing full well they were going to post a profit, all while we were voting on more concessions.

 

Hell, they postponed the financial report so it would come out AFTER the voting was completed.

[longball]

I believe in one of our concessions that they removed ford motor credit profits from our profit sharing formula which will probably reduce our profit sharing considerably.

 

I don't think we have ever had a share of ford credit profit....I believe the only profit that comes into the profit sharing formula is the profit from NORTH AMERICAN AUTOMOTIVE OPERATIONS....I know it has been a while since we got a profit sharing check ....but the only thing we get a cut from is NAAO....only

[Captain723]

You are exactly right. And a small amount of debt is fine. Our debt exceeds our cash by approximatley $8B. GM has 13B more cash than debt, Toyota 15B, and VW 19B. We are on the worng side of the tracks. Over 2B will go toward financing this debt next year. This is cash that should be used for R&D, capital spending, and some toward employee compensation. The sooner we can get this elephant out of the room, the better.

I feel the same as you, they should use this money and money the company plans to give back to salaried to help pay down this debt!

[Captain723]

I'm not angry at UAW members. Just those that assume because Ford has restored some benefits and pay to salaried employees that this automatically means they open the current contract and institute hourly "profit sharing". Frankly, I am amazed that during the previous round of concession the UAW did not demand some kind of restoration of cuts based on corporate profitability.

 

Your contract protects you during down time. You contract limits you during up time. Hirer better negotiators.

 

 

You are implying that salaried workers are not "busting their butt to put food on their table". I never said that about hourly.

 

Maybe the white collars you see at your facility are lazy, fat cats, but I guarantee you that there are thousands of hard working (maybe not with their back and hands) white collar workers that working very hard and have contributed to Ford' recent profits.

Hey salaried fk, those givebacks were to improve the Ford motor company that we all work for. When they are healthy, so are we as workers. This is why our negotiators negotiated to save Ford, not to save them short term so that they can give back salaried cut backs while the hourly still take cuts. That is the BS that will bite them in the ass come 2011. Can't wait till I get mine back when the company is truly better and this short term crap. This is a slap in the face to all employees, hourly and salaried! They should be using extra money to pay down the debt and if they wanted to give something back, it should have been benefits that they took from you and your family. That would have been a little better to stomach than the BS they are giving back! just fking stupid and the UAW realize that upper management does make dumb decisions and that is why they work to make tough decisions for its members that try and save the company and the reason why they demanded the letter on equity of sacrafice, because they figured there would be some dumbfk move like this! Brilliant guys(ford exec's), this is what got us in this mess!!

[flipuaw164]

The company announced a profit and the return of merit raises for white collar shortly after the third round of concessions were voted down. You can't plead poverty in one press release then spend frivolously in the other.

 

Ford, traditionally, has had the best relationship with the UAW and have worked as a team for many decades. I see this ending because of some decisions that have been made recently, and see the next contract negotiations as anything but peaceful.

we can't get greedy now Ford knows it has the upper hand on us thanks to Ron and "Bob" ? the next pres I think Bob knows how unpopular he is with the membership and has to something or he may not be the next president of UAW

hopefully UAW will get some guaruntees instead of commitments for new products at plants that do not have them AFTER THAT WE GO AFTER THE WORTHLESS MANAGEMENT THAT ALMOST SUCK THE BOAT :titanic:

JUST A THOUGHT

[lquidspine]

Hey salaried fk, those givebacks were to improve the Ford motor company that we all work for. When they are healthy, so are we as workers. This is why our negotiators negotiated to save Ford, not to save them short term so that they can give back salaried cut backs while the hourly still take cuts. That is the BS that will bite them in the ass come 2011. Can't wait till I get mine back when the company is truly better and this short term crap. This is a slap in the face to all employees, hourly and salaried! They should be using extra money to pay down the debt and if they wanted to give something back, it should have been benefits that they took from you and your family. That would have been a little better to stomach than the BS they are giving back! just fking stupid and the UAW realize that upper management does make dumb decisions and that is why they work to make tough decisions for its members that try and save the company and the reason why they demanded the letter on equity of sacrafice, because they figured there would be some dumbfk move like this! Brilliant guys(ford exec's), this is what got us in this mess!!

I agree 100% Captain

 

Also as already mentioned hourly has not gotten anything back , the Profit sharing was never given up. More than likely only because the company did not see the point in taking that since they truly did not expect to turn a profit until 2011 anyway(a bargaining year non the less).

[kalu]

If we made 6 billion in 98 and got over three (3) thousand, some people I know got 7 or 8 thousand. One would assume by cutting the profit in half we would still get a thousand or two.

Good luck with that. WTF ever.

[soupy]

Ford only made $454 million without special one-time items. They have accounting tricks that will make sure we never see another substantial profit sharing check.

 

Ford may very well want to see a decent profit share available for 2011. That way it might influence the option to strike. Just think, if UAW goes on strike for, whatever, that could ruin profits. If a strike eliminates profits, you could lose, for example, a 3,000 check.

[SU-FI]

Ford may very well want to see a decent profit share available for 2011. That way it might influence the option to strike. Just think, if UAW goes on strike for, whatever, that could ruin profits. If a strike eliminates profits, you could lose, for example, a 3,000 check.

 

lose 3k, if there was a strike? we'd be striking over the thousands we've already lost, which is far more then 3k.

[dividedwebeg]

lose 3k, if there was a strike? we'd be striking over the thousands we've already lost, which is far more then 3k.

 

Strike pay is $100 a week . No benefits.

 

How many of us can live on $100 a week????

 

What if we strike for 4, 6, 10 weeks.

 

UAW needs to pave the way and lead with Ford in 2011 to help UAW workers at GM and Chrysler.

 

Save your money now. This could be a long strike.

Edited January 30, 2010 by dividedwebeg

[number1fomoco]

Hey salaried fk, those givebacks were to improve the Ford motor company that we all work for. When they are healthy, so are we as workers. This is why our negotiators negotiated to save Ford, not to save them short term so that they can give back salaried cut backs while the hourly still take cuts. That is the BS that will bite them in the ass come 2011. Can't wait till I get mine back when the company is truly better and this short term crap. This is a slap in the face to all employees, hourly and salaried! They should be using extra money to pay down the debt and if they wanted to give something back, it should have been benefits that they took from you and your family. That would have been a little better to stomach than the BS they are giving back! just fking stupid and the UAW realize that upper management does make dumb decisions and that is why they work to make tough decisions for its members that try and save the company and the reason why they demanded the letter on equity of sacrafice, because they figured there would be some dumbfk move like this! Brilliant guys(ford exec's), this is what got us in this mess!!

 

Doesn't anyone realize that the salaried organization have been taking cuts in benefits and pay when COLA was removed back in 1981?? The upper management you speak of is the leadership which has brought this company back to where it is now and where it will be in the future. Ford was willing to give each hourly member $1,000-$2,000 bonus for the last contract which everyone voted down. Second, the leadership realizes that if they don't begin taking care of the salaried workforce in this company, the talent will begin to leave which will be much harder to replace than an hourly worker on the line. This is just the facts. I hope the hourly workforce gets some of its benefits back, but don't have this sense of entitlement that YOU deserve what you think you deserve... When in life is anything fair?? Is it fair that the salaried workforce who work overtime make a standard rate which is less than what the hourly workforce makes on a Saturday and especially Sunday? No, but we accept it and move on. Is it fair your benefits as an hourly worker are better than a salary worker? No, but we accept and move on.

The salaried organization through purchasing, design, engineering, finance, VO Quality, and manufacturing are a HUGE part of why this company is now successful and Mr. Mullaly is doing the right thing by giving us a merit increase this year. Without the change in leadership and focus, this company would have had to declare bankruptcy thus eliminating many more jobs. Thank God for the leadership we have so we can begin to be profitable (together) UAW & Salary in the future.

[SU-FI]

Strike pay is $100 a week . No benefits.

 

How many of us can live on $100 a week????

 

What if we strike for 4, 6, 10 weeks.

 

UAW needs to pave the way and lead with Ford in 2011 to help UAW workers at GM and Chrysler.

 

Save your money now. This could be a long strike.

[/q]

 

not all of us live check to check.

[Marginal Economist]

Ford Automotive Operations lost 1.4B in 2009. The $454M was do to the Financial Services sector. With 35+B in debt, we are not quite healthy yet. We are looking better, but not out of the woods yet.

 

Link to financials

[mbabbitt]

Ford Automotive Operations lost 1.4B in 2009. The $454M was do to the Financial Services sector. With 35+B in debt, we are not quite healthy yet. We are looking better, but not out of the woods yet.

 

Link to financials

25 billion on hand cash ,debt is 35 billion = 10 billion in debt , with assest's worth 116 billion not in to bad of shape . we need one our two good year's and could be debt free . i wish i could say that

Edited January 30, 2010 by mbabbitt

[Marginal Economist]

25 billion on hand cash ,debt is 35 billion = 10 billion in debt , with assest's worth 116 billion not in to bad of shape . we need one our two good year's and could be debt free . i wish i could say that

Our competitor's - VW is +19B, Toyota is +15B, I can't recall GM but it was somewhere in the 6-13 positive range. We are -10B.

 

We are 25B away from being in great shape.

[el norte]

Strike pay is $100 a week . No benefits.

 

How many of us can live on $100 a week????

 

What if we strike for 4, 6, 10 weeks.

 

UAW needs to pave the way and lead with Ford in 2011 to help UAW workers at GM and Chrysler.

 

Save your money now. This could be a long strike.

[/q]

 

not all of us live check to check.

I don't think that was his point.

[Maislebandit]

Doesn't anyone realize that the salaried organization have been taking cuts in benefits and pay when COLA was removed back in 1981?? The upper management you speak of is the leadership which has brought this company back to where it is now and where it will be in the future. Ford was willing to give each hourly member $1,000-$2,000 bonus for the last contract which everyone voted down. Second, the leadership realizes that if they don't begin taking care of the salaried workforce in this company, the talent will begin to leave which will be much harder to replace than an hourly worker on the line. This is just the facts. I hope the hourly workforce gets some of its benefits back, but don't have this sense of entitlement that YOU deserve what you think you deserve... When in life is anything fair?? Is it fair that the salaried workforce who work overtime make a standard rate which is less than what the hourly workforce makes on a Saturday and especially Sunday? No, but we accept it and move on. Is it fair your benefits as an hourly worker are better than a salary worker? No, but we accept and move on.

The salaried organization through purchasing, design, engineering, finance, VO Quality, and manufacturing are a HUGE part of why this company is now successful and Mr. Mullaly is doing the right thing by giving us a merit increase this year. Without the change in leadership and focus, this company would have had to declare bankruptcy thus eliminating many more jobs. Thank God for the leadership we have so we can begin to be profitable (together) UAW & Salary in the future.

 

If you look at the chain of recent events, it is should be a no brainer to see why hourly is not fond of the treatment they have received.

 

In the course of this current contract, we have given back what took decades to achieve.

 

As stated previously, Ford purposely delayed reports to try to get more concessions from the UAW. Shortly after this failed attempt they post profits and announce salary givebacks. The $1000 you speak of was nothing less than a bribe.

 

Had they announced profit and decided to pay down debt or reinvest in N.A. as suggested, with maybe the hint of some future give backs to all employees, you wouldn't hear a peep from me. I doubt you would hear much opposition from hourly at all. The company cited the challenges that they were up against and requested that we help. We volunteered this and voted to give back.

 

Is it that hard to see why hourly is unhappy with the decisions that Ford has made?

[Marginal Economist]

As stated previously, Ford purposely delayed reports to try to get more concessions from the UAW. Shortly after this failed attempt they post profits and announce salary givebacks. The $1000 you speak of was nothing less than a bribe.

Ford 3Q results 2009 - released Nov 2, 2009

Ford 3Q results 2008 - released Nov 7, 2008

Ford 3Q results 2007 - released Nov 8, 2007

 

Please explain your statement on how Ford purposely delayed results.

 

Thanks.