AAI losing B shift announcement

[el norte]

Here’s yet another way to look at all this mess:

 

When AAI loses its second shift, the only way any member on loan will be affected is if there aren’t enough offered jobs at other facilities or too many high seniority members leave AAI. If either of the two is the case, then only the ones affected by seniority will be affected. (this is just an opinion because you never know now a days what the IUAW will pull out of their ass’s)

 

Here are some numbers for those that are pondering it. At AAI we have 2281 members and will need 1400 for 1 shift. Out of the 2281 nearly 300 are on temporary loan status in our plant (to cover temporary loans out of our plant, lol). Take the 300 from the top and you are left with 1981 now subtract the 1400 and your left with 581 affected. These numbers are not perfect, but close.

 

Here’s a twist; For arguments sake lets just say that everyone affected at AAI gets a bid to another plant (this meaning nobody with greater seniority took the offer) and a few weeks, months or years go by and Sheldon Rd, Saline or both close. The AAI members left at these plants have to hold seniority at AAI in order to return (bump someone out) or they themselves will be placed on indefinite lay off (ILO) and exhausting sub benefits. I say this because some are of the belief that we can bump lower seniority members out of other plants. This is not case, the only time we can bump someone from a facility with no openings posted, is when an out of zone opening occurs and nobody in-zone wants it. The lowest in-zone member will be bumped out of zone and then the senior member will take his/her position. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the IUAW combine zone 1 and 2 during the 2007 negotiations?

 

With the national language now speaking to inverse seniority canvassing, this will be a long rollercoaster of canvasses. As members leave plants they might leave openings (manpower dictated) and then this becomes yet another canvass.

 

Hope some of this helps, good luck to you with what ever you decide to do.

I'm wondering with 6-94 seniority if I can transfer to Chicago? willingly lol

[messy marvin lang]

I don't think you will get many takers for Chicago willingly...................Very expensive to live there from what I've been seeing!

many people who have transfered to chicago live across the border in Indiana...short drive...unless you wanna live right by plant...warzone

[taurus10]

His Chairman informed him of the 2007 language that locations with ILO/JSP will have the ability to sign for job openings.

 

The openings will be available for all active and ILO at ILO locations.

 

 

The postings go up according to Appendix N Attachment C "Placement Hierarchy" of the agreement. So it actually starts In-Zone first.

[taurus10]

If these imaginary posting come up before middle of july when 900 go on ilo. Then would everyone on ilo including those working temp/ilo at AAI be able to bid before AAI members because they won't officially be out on ilo till July. The reason I ask it seems that Chicago would need people before then

 

I don't believe there will be many openings that soon for a second shift. That wont happen until September for the2nd shift, but there is a line speed increase in July.

[deflep1]

Taurus 10, our local at AAI told us Chicago would let our members sign up in July, and we would be put on hold until training for the new shift is needed. This was the same for Michigan Assembly. Ford wants everyone signed up or taking the buyout ASAP after we lose our shift. As soon as everyone's working and then the ILO's (who didn't take the buyout) run out of their weeks, Ford can hire in new $14 an hour workers. Does the new Explorer ship in Nov? , if so, at least 2 months before that they'll be rolling off the line, and the pre-production models will start even earlier. So it might be a 2 month layoff once people sign to go to Chicago. We're supposed to pick the plant we want on a Friday in July, and become a member of the new plant on Monday. This is the scenario no matter what plants have openings.MAP has 550 openings with 410 possible RTBU's. So that's at least 140 jobs open for the high seniority members. Maybe a small amount will stay where they are, and the 140# will jump up to 200 or so. Either way MAP will be snapped up quick, as well as other MI plants who will have small openings. Taurus, do you know the exact # they need to run the new shift, and how many openings will be left after some of the workers follow their product from Louisville? All this info is very important in making life choices. I'm hoping for MAP or other MI plants...hell my plant might still be open, but I'd be the lowest seniority to stay, and it woudn't be safe. Chicago would be the last option for most people, myself included. If i turn down the last plant (chicago), and they fill all the spots with the next 700 people, what happens? There's lots of possibilities floating around. I do not want to go to Chicago, but I've been to Crowne Point, IN...The Lake of the Four Seasons..real nice community. There are some decent housing prices to rent out there plus home buying possibilities, and you're not far from the Calumet City Ford Plant in ILL. I'm trying to do my homework on the area, even though with my seniority May '97, I should have some Michigan offers still available to me. Any info you've got on the Chicago plant , Taurus, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Deflep1 aka Rockingrob!

[UAWANDPROUD48134]

Saline people don`t have to return to AAI. , because if your senority falls to where you would get laid off they will lay you off from there ! And your free to bid on postings too . Just what I`ve heard !

[hi-lo feva2]

How many people are needed for the line speed increase? How many jph will the line be set at?

jph 68

[hi-lo feva2]

Taurus 10, our local at AAI told us Chicago would let our members sign up in July, and we would be put on hold until training for the new shift is needed. This was the same for Michigan Assembly. Ford wants everyone signed up or taking the buyout ASAP after we lose our shift. As soon as everyone's working and then the ILO's (who didn't take the buyout) run out of their weeks, Ford can hire in new $14 an hour workers. Does the new Explorer ship in Nov? , if so, at least 2 months before that they'll be rolling off the line, and the pre-production models will start even earlier. So it might be a 2 month layoff once people sign to go to Chicago. We're supposed to pick the plant we want on a Friday in July, and become a member of the new plant on Monday. This is the scenario no matter what plants have openings.MAP has 550 openings with 410 possible RTBU's. So that's at least 140 jobs open for the high seniority members. Maybe a small amount will stay where they are, and the 140# will jump up to 200 or so. Either way MAP will be snapped up quick, as well as other MI plants who will have small openings. Taurus, do you know the exact # they need to run the new shift, and how many openings will be left after some of the workers follow their product from Louisville? All this info is very important in making life choices. I'm hoping for MAP or other MI plants...hell my plant might still be open, but I'd be the lowest seniority to stay, and it woudn't be safe. Chicago would be the last option for most people, myself included. If i turn down the last plant (chicago), and they fill all the spots with the next 700 people, what happens? There's lots of possibilities floating around. I do not want to go to Chicago, but I've been to Crowne Point, IN...The Lake of the Four Seasons..real nice community. There are some decent housing prices to rent out there plus home buying possibilities, and you're not far from the Calumet City Ford Plant in ILL. I'm trying to do my homework on the area, even though with my seniority May '97, I should have some Michigan offers still available to me. Any info you've got on the Chicago plant , Taurus, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Deflep1 aka Rockingrob!

So is 94 on the bubble or 97. Just trying to figure what sen. you state is on the bubble or how you would be the lowest to stay because you started in 94 . Thanks.

Edited February 23, 2010 by hi-lo feva2

[el norte]

So is 94 on the bubble or 97. Just trying to figure what sen. you state is on the bubble or how you would be the lowest to stay because you started in 94 . Thanks.

'93

[deflep1]

So is 94 on the bubble or 97. Just trying to figure what sen. you state is on the bubble or how you would be the lowest to stay because you started in 94 . Thanks.

hi-lo, there is no official bubble, because everyone gets to pick to stay or take another plant. They will keep around 1400 people. I've got 1600 people ahead of me. If 200 people pick other plants ahead of me, this would open up one of the lowest spots at AAI. If they had a cutoff date, employee #1400 has May '93 sen. ,they would have the first pick under the old contract rules. Now 1400 people ahead of them can choose to stay or leave. Some of the workers who would have been in the lowest 100 (#1300-#1400) have expressed interest in MAP, since they don't want to be in the bottom 100, which would be the first cut if they lower the new July linespeed of 68jph in the future to 60 or so. They would be floaters for the next two years and could be loaned out all the time. I live close to AAI, but I couldn't risk being laid off or the plant closing in two years, being close is nice, but driving farther to a plant that's a lot more secure is a better long term plan. When I say I started in '94, I was working every day as a part timer, as were 200 more of us, working more than 90 consecutive days many times. We worked this way until Aug '98 when we threatened a lawsuit because the company would not hire us. and the union would not help us. The company was shown the facts of all the time we had worked consecutively, and finally agreed to hire us full time. Since AAI didn't come under the Ford Nat. contract until March '97, they would not recognize any time we worked before that. We were given sen. dates ranging from May '97 to early '98. I basically have almost 16 years with the company, but sadly only 13 full time...I lost 3 years, some of my friends lost 4 or 5 years. I'm sorry I confused you. If most the high seniority stay here, that's more chances for a spot at MAP or another MI plant. If lots of high sen. decide to leave, they'll take those other plants, giving people like me the option to stay at AAI with really low sen, or try for a MI opening, or take one of the 1100 chicago openings. And let's not forget they are letting the 600 nationwide ILO's pick by sen. with us at the same time. we really need to get that list to see how many high sen. could pick before us. There's a lot of different ways this plays out....but the low 900-1000 need to seriously look into chicago. They need 1100-1200 people, and if you're near the bottom, that's most likely where you'll be going. Find out about housing within 30 miles of the plant right now, so you'll have the jump on everyone if you get sent there. It gets more interesting every day!

[MTP'er]

Was told today that 240 that have RTBU from WAP, ISA or MTP will be forced to MAP, so that only leaves around 260 openings. Most if not all will be going to WAP, more than likely trim if and when they add a 3 shift.

[downriverrat]

It wasn't my aim to piss any one off with my earlier post. I understand that it takes alot of seniority to hold jobs at AAI but I have seen bids go up and I hope people were bidding them.

 

I am not looking for sympathy.I am speaking from experience when I say that I wish this on no one, 2 years on the street please don't give me this crap about "you have a job" and as of July 13 many of us won't anymore. AAI took us in on their terms to protect their own what happened to solidarity when they announced before we got here we wouldn't get our seniority I'm sure plenty stood up and pointed out how unfair it was to your brother and sisters. the Saline and Sheldon and any ACH bids should have gone to those on ILO. Why train, move, orient, 2 people when you only had to do this for one. Make those jobs temp at 2 plants instead of temp jobs at every plant.

 

This is all in the past and I hold none of this against any one and I'm sorry in my post if it comes across that way, and as I said before I was hoping to give people something to look out for in the future.

 

 

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE!!! INTERNATIONAL SCREWED UP BIG TIME WITH THIS TEMP BULLSHIT. THIS WAS A TRAIN WRECK WAITING TO HAPPEN AND HERE WE GO. I HOPE THEY COME UP WITH A BETTER PLAN TO PLACE THE DISPLACED AAI WORKERS.

[oogravyoo]

Was told today that 240 that have RTBU from WAP, ISA or MTP will be forced to MAP, so that only leaves around 260 openings. Most if not all will be going to WAP, more than likely trim if and when they add a 3 shift.

 

where did those numbers come from? forced to MAP??

 

from the latest I've heard 100 temps will be brought on at WAP for 5 or so weeks and then let go, July a 3rd shift will be added needing approx 515.. approx 400 people have call back rights..

[WayneGirl1970]

where did those numbers come from? forced to MAP??

 

from the latest I've heard 100 temps will be brought on at WAP for 5 or so weeks and then let go, July a 3rd shift will be added needing approx 515.. approx 400 people have call back rights..

 

I work at DTP on a Temp basis my home plant is WAP the stories keep changing by the moment. I was told no temps would be brought in due to the fact they have folks on temps basis at other plants this came from a Bar. Rep at WAP but As the World Turns so does the story. All I can say is stay tuned. Just want to go back whenever!!! :reading:

Edited February 26, 2010 by WayneGirl1970

[taurus10]

Taurus 10, our local at AAI told us Chicago would let our members sign up in July, and we would be put on hold until training for the new shift is needed. This was the same for Michigan Assembly. Ford wants everyone signed up or taking the buyout ASAP after we lose our shift. As soon as everyone's working and then the ILO's (who didn't take the buyout) run out of their weeks, Ford can hire in new $14 an hour workers. Does the new Explorer ship in Nov? , if so, at least 2 months before that they'll be rolling off the line, and the pre-production models will start even earlier. So it might be a 2 month layoff once people sign to go to Chicago. We're supposed to pick the plant we want on a Friday in July, and become a member of the new plant on Monday. This is the scenario no matter what plants have openings.MAP has 550 openings with 410 possible RTBU's. So that's at least 140 jobs open for the high seniority members. Maybe a small amount will stay where they are, and the 140# will jump up to 200 or so. Either way MAP will be snapped up quick, as well as other MI plants who will have small openings. Taurus, do you know the exact # they need to run the new shift, and how many openings will be left after some of the workers follow their product from Louisville? All this info is very important in making life choices. I'm hoping for MAP or other MI plants...hell my plant might still be open, but I'd be the lowest seniority to stay, and it woudn't be safe. Chicago would be the last option for most people, myself included. If i turn down the last plant (chicago), and they fill all the spots with the next 700 people, what happens? There's lots of possibilities floating around. I do not want to go to Chicago, but I've been to Crowne Point, IN...The Lake of the Four Seasons..real nice community. There are some decent housing prices to rent out there plus home buying possibilities, and you're not far from the Calumet City Ford Plant in ILL. I'm trying to do my homework on the area, even though with my seniority May '97, I should have some Michigan offers still available to me. Any info you've got on the Chicago plant , Taurus, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Deflep1 aka Rockingrob!

 

 

Explorer starts Nov. 1, 2010 and they should be in showrooms and selling just around the new year. Don't know exact #'s for how many will be needed to add a 2nd shift, too many factors to know this early. I have heard that 8 people signed for the Transfer of Operations from LAP, there are 48 people on ILO from CAP still. Subtract that from whatever Ford thinks they really need for an additional shift(700 to 800?) and then they will ask for that # of volunteers according to the Placement Hierarchy.

[vmpp]

I don't get how high seniority gets a choice of plants. When MTP went to one shift high seniority had to stay and got no choice. That came from downtown. They cut from the bottom. I'm sure AAI union is saying that but I remember when high seniority from MTP wanted to go to DTP we were told no.

[el norte]

I don't get how high seniority gets a choice of plants. When MTP went to one shift high seniority had to stay and got no choice. That came from downtown. They cut from the bottom. I'm sure AAI union is saying that but I remember when high seniority from MTP wanted to go to DTP we were told no.

2007 contract

[Grim Reaper]

I don't get how high seniority gets a choice of plants. When MTP went to one shift high seniority had to stay and got no choice. That came from downtown. They cut from the bottom. I'm sure AAI union is saying that but I remember when high seniority from MTP wanted to go to DTP we were told no.

 

Yes that all changed in the 2007 CBA. Now all employees are eligible to sign up at ilo locations. My best guess is you will see high seniority bail out of AAI for job security at MAP.

 

Also, there is no way to estimate any cut off seniority at this point. Have to wait until the postings go up and see who signs to determine the seniority cut off.

[el norte]

Yes that all changed in the 2007 CBA. Now all employees are eligible to sign up at ilo locations. My best guess is you will see high seniority bail out of AAI for job security at MAP.

 

Also, there is no way to estimate any cut off seniority at this point. Have to wait until the postings go up and see who signs to determine the seniority cut off.

Anyone have an opinion on whether or not I can sign up for chicago(willingly) from AAI with '94 seniority? I know alot of people are worried about staying in zone, but can anyone sign up for out of zone?

[deflep1]

Anyone have an opinion on whether or not I can sign up for chicago(willingly) from AAI with '94 seniority? I know alot of people are worried about staying in zone, but can anyone sign up for out of zone?

el norte, the union said if Chicago is accepting workers when we pick (they will be, they need over 1100 workers when they add a shift late this year), anyone from AAI can sign to go. A lot of the low seniority will have no other options available, so it will probably be Chicago or nothing for them. The 600 workers on ILO nationally will also be able to pick when we do. I hope someone can find out what seniority range those workers have. If high sen. stay put at our plant, My '97 sen. will probably get me a pick at a Mich. plant. If lots of high sen. bail on us, Chicago might be getting A LOT of our workers! I don't want to leave the state, but not picking the only plant left open would be very dangerous, hoping you have enough sen. to bump the low sen. in zone, and knowing that might not be able to. MAP is going to hire an additional 750 workers in May 2011 for a third shift, but running out of your sub & Tap weeks waiting to get a chance to pick for there is also dangerous. If you want to go Chicago El Norte, check out the nice suburbs in Indiana that are 10 - 30 miles from the plant. (Which is in Calumet City, a war zone on the South Side) Getting all the info now would make things a lot easier if you get to go (or the rest of us HAVE to go) to Chicago. Good Luck to you and the rest of us!

[Tsquare]

el norte, the union said if Chicago is accepting workers when we pick (they will be, they need over 1100 workers when they add a shift late this year), anyone from AAI can sign to go. A lot of the low seniority will have no other options available, so it will probably be Chicago or nothing for them. The 600 workers on ILO nationally will also be able to pick when we do. I hope someone can find out what seniority range those workers have. If high sen. stay put at our plant, My '97 sen. will probably get me a pick at a Mich. plant. If lots of high sen. bail on us, Chicago might be getting A LOT of our workers! I don't want to leave the state, but not picking the only plant left open would be very dangerous, hoping you have enough sen. to bump the low sen. in zone, and knowing that might not be able to. MAP is going to hire an additional 750 workers in May 2011 for a third shift, but running out of your sub & Tap weeks waiting to get a chance to pick for there is also dangerous. If you want to go Chicago El Norte, check out the nice suburbs in Indiana that are 10 - 30 miles from the plant. (Which is in Calumet City, a war zone on the South Side) Getting all the info now would make things a lot easier if you get to go (or the rest of us HAVE to go) to Chicago. Good Luck to you and the rest of us!

 

With all the time I've been on ILO they will not tell you the status of those 600 workers and where you are amongst them. They say the numbers keep changing and they will not show you a list. If you do find someone to print off a list you wil be told it is not an official list. It's more like a big black hole.

[deflep1]

With all the time I've been on ILO they will not tell you the status of those 600 workers and where you are amongst them. They say the numbers keep changing and they will not show you a list. If you do find someone to print off a list you wil be told it is not an official list. It's more like a big black hole.

I kind of thought they'd not be forthcoming with that information. Maybe each local is trying to protect their own workers. I've been told that some are high and some are low....could they BE MORE vague? I guess we will get their seniority dates when they start picking at the same time we do. If those high sen. pick the good plants that are open, it limits what's left for us middle of the pack sen. workers. I know i'll still have a job open, even though I probably won't want to go. Sorry to hear about the long length of time on ILO, T Square. I hope you get a good pick this summer! If you DO get an accurate list of the 600, please share it and some decisions might be made easier. Thanks!

[Tsquare]

I kind of thought they'd not be forthcoming with that information. Maybe each local is trying to protect their own workers. I've been told that some are high and some are low....could they BE MORE vague? I guess we will get their seniority dates when they start picking at the same time we do. If those high sen. pick the good plants that are open, it limits what's left for us middle of the pack sen. workers. I know i'll still have a job open, even though I probably won't want to go. Sorry to hear about the long length of time on ILO, T Square. I hope you get a good pick this summer! If you DO get an accurate list of the 600, please share it and some decisions might be made easier. Thanks!

 

Something to be conserned about is when jobs open up, youmust officialy be on ILO at the time of the opening or your bid does not count. What I'm trying to say is if chicago has openings for 300 people and you are still working (not layed off) you cannot bid on the jobs. Only people on ILO will be able to bid at that time. Will AAI hold back some of the higher seniority people to keep the jobs running and use as fill-ins where needed. Then let go at a latter date when all lines are up and running. And in what order will the people who are loaned out be let go. If they are first to be layed off, they will get first crack at the jobs because they are on ILO at the time of the bid and you are still working another week or so. This could turn into an ugly war in the local union.

[el norte]

Something to be conserned about is when jobs open up, youmust officialy be on ILO at the time of the opening or your bid does not count. What I'm trying to say is if chicago has openings for 300 people and you are still working (not layed off) you cannot bid on the jobs. Only people on ILO will be able to bid at that time. Will AAI hold back some of the higher seniority people to keep the jobs running and use as fill-ins where needed. Then let go at a latter date when all lines are up and running. And in what order will the people who are loaned out be let go. If they are first to be layed off, they will get first crack at the jobs because they are on ILO at the time of the bid and you are still working another week or so. This could turn into an ugly war in the local union.

so what you're saying is no one can sign up for in zone, or out of zone until AAI lays us off? I think there will be sign ups after they figure out RTBU"s. My opinion.

[Grim Reaper]

Something to be conserned about is when jobs open up, youmust officialy be on ILO at the time of the opening or your bid does not count. What I'm trying to say is if chicago has openings for 300 people and you are still working (not layed off) you cannot bid on the jobs. Only people on ILO will be able to bid at that time. Will AAI hold back some of the higher seniority people to keep the jobs running and use as fill-ins where needed. Then let go at a latter date when all lines are up and running. And in what order will the people who are loaned out be let go. If they are first to be layed off, they will get first crack at the jobs because they are on ILO at the time of the bid and you are still working another week or so. This could turn into an ugly war in the local union.

 

Not true. The 2007 agreement clearly states that JSP or ILO locations including active at those locations can sign up for open bids. Chicago and MAP will be available to active as well.

 

Bidding is open to everyone at ILO locations.

 

I am sure that there will be training before anyone goes.