Bob King Elected UAW President

[Grim Reaper]

I kind of feel the same Grim, they did solve the problems that past leadership allow to build (retiree health care), they did keep pensions intact through 2 of 3 bankruptcy's.

 

I personally would not want Gary as president even though I agree with him on many issues, however if as a delegate if the majority of the people I went to represent wanted him that is how my vote would have gone.

 

The same should be said to any delegate that voted yes on raises, as a delegate they are elected to voice the opinion of the rank and file. How many delegates do you think will go back to the plants next week and voluntarily tell those they where to represent that that voted yes for a raise at the Con Con ?

 

My guess is very few if any at all , regardless what has been given up I would find it a hard sell to tell the members the leaders got a raise,when less than 9 months ago the leadership was asking for us to give away our right to strike and freezing entry level wages up until 2014.

 

 

I am by no means saying our leaders do not deserve their pay, they do. What they do is a thankless job. But its a job they choose because they cared about something, unfortunately sometimes it seem they care more about self preservation than they care about what the membership wants or what is in their best interest.

 

 

Correct on all four points!

 

In comparision they took the same concessions we took, now that they gave themselves raises we should expect the same next year.

[lquidspine]

Correct on all four points!

 

In comparision they took the same concessions we took, now that they gave themselves raises we should expect the same next year.

I do not see us getting a pay raise Grim, the honest truth is we will be somewhat on par with GM and Chrysler. They can not ask for pay or benefit increases or they risk going to arbitration. I know Bob is smarter than that , so while I can see maybe some performance type bonuses (who knows we may even get them this time around) but that is all i would expect as far as monetary increases.

[buster6969]

I do not see us getting a pay raise Grim, the honest truth is we will be somewhat on par with GM and Chrysler. They can not ask for pay or benefit increases or they risk going to arbitration. I know Bob is smarter than that , so while I can see maybe some performance type bonuses (who knows we may even get them this time around) but that is all i would expect as far as monetary increases.

I disagree, Ford has a rude awakening coming in 2011. They got a little greedy asking for some things similar to GM and Chrysler. They should have been happy with the market share improvement and called it a wash. Now, because of their greed, they will be giving us some $$$$ back or we will take to the streets!!

[lquidspine]

I disagree, Ford has a rude awakening coming in 2011. They got a little greedy asking for some things similar to GM and Chrysler. They should have been happy with the market share improvement and called it a wash. Now, because of their greed, they will be giving us some $$$$ back or we will take to the streets!!

And risk screwing our brothers and sisters at GM and Chrysler.....now there is Solidarity, at least I am confident that Bob is much smarter than this.

Edited June 20, 2010 by lquidspine

[DTPrt]

Gary never would have won.

 

He has no resolution to problems that need to be addressed by educated leaders.

 

Even if Gary could personally talk to every Delegate he would have never had a chance.

 

These Delegates themselves are all leaders. They know bullshit when they see it.

 

Gary’s only position was “No Concessions”, which leaves him far short of being a problem solver.

 

The entire membership knows this is what we need. Problem solvers

 

None of us want concessions, not even our leaders.

 

Maybe in four years Gary can put a platform together that deals with problems and not just say no.

 

Then and only then will he be a threat to take the Presidency.

Gary couldn't handle be chairman of the DTP. . . The best position Gary was ever good at was a committeeman in the Trim department in the DAP. . . period

[1993Stang]

When I called and bitched at this guy I brought up all of these concessions we took. I was looking to straighten this guy out on my displeasure. I threw all of these same questions to him and he responded to each one. He stated that they are paid their salary agreed in the constitution. No overtime. He claimed that he can’t go home until his work is complete most times 12 and 13 hours a day. They have had retirements and did not replace 1 for 1 so they are doing the work of 2 or 3 people. No overtime. They are expected to phone bank on weekends, give strike assistance to unions on strike, attend strikes and strike rallies, and travel on personal time. Work on election committees that support Union labor, no overtime. He claimed the furlough days are at the discretion of the boss. They don’t get to choose furlough days off. These days are taken each month out of their pay.

 

I can’t remember much more about our conversation. I would suggest calling and posting what you find out.

I do remember level posting something about pay. I will search and see if I can find it.

 

Again I think this is a good sign, the international took $16,000 a year concessions last year and got a $8,000 raise. They led by example on concessions and they got a raise from the delegates. 2011 bargaining is next year. Can we expect to get back half of what we gave up?

 

 

I applaud you for asking the tough questions. Thank You Grim.

[rogerrabbit]

I asked previously, but got no reply: What Local Unions were represented by the delegates who voted for Gary? Were the delegates exclusively from Ford Locals?

 

Some here wonder why Gary would not be popular among the other delegates at the Convention -- delegates who are not from Ford Locals and delegates who are not from within the Detroit 3?

 

Gary's presidential candidacy demonstrated UAW disunity throughout the mass media -- there is no Solidarity to be found here in the Ford Department.

 

A bargaining committeeman from Bob King's home Local challenging Bob King for all The World to see.

 

Oh, sorry, that's right, Gary did this not for The World, Gary did this for The Membership. Gary did the media interviews for The Membership. Gary got his photo printed in the newspapers and posted on the web sites for The Membership.

 

Well, The Membership's delegates voted -- and they booed.

 

The Membership spans far beyond this Ford section of the UAW. Perhaps The Membership's delegates didn't appreciate that a bargaining committee person from Bob King's Local Union should be the self-avowed no-chance-to-win interrupter of what should have been a Solidarity moment for The Membership.

 

Gary's candidacy cast a stain upon our Ford section of the UAW. Rather than being congratulated, Gary should be shamed. It wasn't courage -- it was harmful stupidity.

 

Think you have problems now? What if Gary had won?

I would have a Tinner made some cup similier to Stanley Cup and have every local uaw building have it for a week n hold it up to the sky and thank God and those people who die and got beat up for our rights for a better life ,smile again because international greed (money) and company greed would be no more ,and God would be there master and not money.When i died i am not going to want to see all that money and wish i work more ,at the plants,We would all wish we spent more time with our families .Amen to that ,

[rogerrabbit]

Spine, you are so right about the raises. No raise since 2004, givebacks gallore. Did Grim forget that every minute past 8 hours was overtime. So now when there is 10 hours 4 days a week it is just 40 hours. Before it was time 1/2 for the 2 extra hours on a day schedule. If you only worked 4 days that is still 8 hours at time and 1/2. Do the math on that and times that by the hourly rate and see how much money the hourly worker is out for the year, plus day after easter, less break-time, X-mas bonus, performance bonus, etc. Also unpaid furlough days. I'd love to know if that was just Fridays off after they all got their 40 hours in Monday-Thursday? You mean having Friday off and not paying OT for the furlough days?

 

2BHome, the delegates booed at Gary and the membership booed at King when he wanted all of you to sign that re-modification to the re-modification (open contract twice) concessions. Again, if you still want to help the company out 2B Home why does the caucus just hand over what the concessions were calling for and call it the day. Disunity, I believe that was already happening when the membership let out a big fat "No" to the last re-modification. What is your bitch now my friend? His name has been spoken in my house as if he is a true union leader. My father worships him. But to boo a guy because he wants no concessions for the membership is just crazy. He has a job to do. Like a lawyer has a job in defending a client who may be guilty or not. His job is in the best interest of who he is representing period. There are recent statements that suggest the U.A.W lead by Bob King now want to fight to represent Toyota Dealerships as a way to recruit new members. O.k., but lets make sure the membership that you have is now represented fully and giveback the givebacks!! New membership looks as though again the I.U.A.W is looking out for themselves and not the current membership, sorry but you don't agree?

The companies are laughing all the way to the bank ,while iuaw and uaw booed each other can anybody get a list of those delagates,so we know who they are ,when we vote Bob King out of office.or at least vote for other delagates,I like to who voted for who and why it's our democratic rights Ron i know u got a list.

[dividedwebeg]

I would have a Tinner made some cup similier to Stanley Cup and have every local uaw building have it for a week n hold it up to the sky and thank God and those people who die and got beat up for our rights for a better life ,smile again because international greed (money) and company greed would be no more ,and God would be there master and not money.When i died i am not going to want to see all that money and wish i work more ,at the plants,We would all wish we spent more time with our families .Amen to that ,

 

 

DWT= Drunk While Typing.

 

Please edit so we can understand your point.

[Len_A]

I disagree, Ford has a rude awakening coming in 2011. They got a little greedy asking for some things similar to GM and Chrysler. They should have been happy with the market share improvement and called it a wash. Now, because of their greed, they will be giving us some $ back or we will take to the streets!!

I doubt it, on both fronts, $$ or street. See Sunday's Detroit Free Press article on Bob King:

 

"It is shortsighted on our part if we make them uncompetitive by giving them demands that their competition doesn't have to match," King said.

detroit_free_press_20100620_A06.pdf

[DTPrt]

All Gary comes to the table with is Vote "no" on concessions and Nick swinging from his nuts. I hope Gary don't buy Nicks shit and runs for Chair, that way he can run DTP with the no concession mentallity, but he better have alternatives and suggestions, not just vote "NO". Welcome to the real world, prove you can run the ship instead of sitting in the passengers seat with a blind driver (nick)!

Gary ran the ship once . . . Please, let's not go through that again . . .

[buster6969]

I doubt it, on both fronts, $$ or street. See Sunday's Detroit Free Press article on Bob King:

 

[/size]

Did anyone see the news tonight, Our good friend Alan makes more than Honda/Toyota and Nissan CEO's all added together. So getting something for us members will not kill them. We will be on the street, because without something back it will be a "Hell No" Vote! If they would have been resposible and instead of paying out million dollar bonuses they paid down our debt to show that what we have sacraficed went toward improving the company business instead of them lining their phucking pockets again I would agree with you. Unfortunately that didn't happen so phuck them and take to the street. I am still waiting on my share of the grievance that was filed for equity of sacrafice, so that I can buy momma a new pair of shoes!

[Len_A]

Did anyone see the news tonight, Our good friend Alan makes more than Honda/Toyota and Nissan CEO's all added together. So getting something for us members will not kill them. We will be on the street, because without something back it will be a "Hell No" Vote! If they would have been resposible and instead of paying out million dollar bonuses they paid down our debt to show that what we have sacraficed went toward improving the company business instead of them lining their phucking pockets again I would agree with you. Unfortunately that didn't happen so phuck them and take to the street. I am still waiting on my share of the grievance that was filed for equity of sacrafice, so that I can buy momma a new pair of shoes!

Didn't say you wouldn't get something, but whatever "something" is, it won't be a return to the pre-2009 contract. More than likely, both sides will make a lot of noise, then settle for a better profit sharing formula. Mark my words.

[louie]

Did anyone see the news tonight, Our good friend Alan makes more than Honda/Toyota and Nissan CEO's all added together. So getting something for us members will not kill them. We will be on the street, because without something back it will be a "Hell No" Vote! If they would have been resposible and instead of paying out million dollar bonuses they paid down our debt to show that what we have sacraficed went toward improving the company business instead of them lining their phucking pockets again I would agree with you. Unfortunately that didn't happen so phuck them and take to the street. I am still waiting on my share of the grievance that was filed for equity of sacrafice, so that I can buy momma a new pair of shoes!

 

 

Take it to the streets............. ???? Hell yes. We will be striking in 2011.

 

Save your money. There will be no pay increases and most of the product has been assigned.

 

We will not have any pay increases or product in our plants.

 

The UAW knows we will vote no on anything less.

 

We need to strike to help our Brothers and Sisters at Chrysler and GM as well as ourselves.

 

Save your money.

 

$200 dollars a week

 

I have been saving since the first modifications.

 

This will be a long strike.

 

The company knows this and will build up units to last 3 months.

 

This is not a chicken little episode but rather a reality................. Save yo money.

[Len_A]

Did anyone see the news tonight, Our good friend Alan makes more than Honda/Toyota and Nissan CEO's all added together. ...

Nice, completely irrelevant comparison by the idiots of the press. CEO's in Japan can't move around to competing companies, so there's no way for them to bid the salaries up. In Japan, no one quits from a company like Nissan or Honda, and goes across the street to work for Toyota. Doesn't happen, as that kind of behavior is unacceptable in Japanese society.

 

A more apples-to-apples comparison would be to compare Mulally's annual income to that of a European auto CEO, like Deiter Zetche. Total annual compensation for Mulally, in 2009, was $1,400,000, according to Business Week. Deiter Zetche's 2009 compensation was €2,066,000, also according to Business Week here, which at 1.00 Euro = 1.24 U.S. Dollars, as of the close Friday, equals $2,561,840. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne earned a reported €4,800,000 in 2009, according to egmCarTech, which translates to $5,952,000.

 

Making comparisons to the Japanese and Korean CEO's is a nice way of riling people up, but it means shit. Hourly autoworkers in Japan, those that are actual Toyota, Nissan, and Honda employees (not temps or contractors or suppliers) make roughly similar to what higher seniority hourly made here prior to January,2009. European hourly employees traditionally have made more than either UAW or CAW represented hourly workers or Japanese workers. Koreans make less.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Len_A

[buster6969]

Didn't say you wouldn't get something, but whatever "something" is, it won't be a return to the pre-2009 contract. More than likely, both sides will make a lot of noise, then settle for a better profit sharing formula. Mark my words.

Mark my phucking words, profit sharing doesn't stop the company from giving salaried bonuses even when the company has debt.....not enough and you can thank your friend Alan and his dumb phucking move to give himself and others huge bonuses on the backs of our concensions! Mark my words....you think the no vote on the last mod was huge...just wait till we take to the streets! What will a month or 2 cost Ford, not to mention the negative media impact and possible loss of market share that we have just gained. Can't wait for the fireworks!

[Len_A]

We need to strike to help our Brothers and Sisters at Chrysler and GM as well as ourselves.

 

How do you propose to provide any help, next contract time, for GM & Chrysler rank & file? 1) they can't strike, and 2) they have to submit to arbitration if they can't come to terms. Both of those conditions of the bailouts, and even if both companies go public, those restrictions stand. Earliest GM & Chrysler can strike is the contract after next. That's another five years.

 

Mark my phucking words, profit sharing doesn't stop the company from giving salaried bonuses even when the company has debt.....not enough and you can thank your friend Alan and his dumb phucking move to give himself and others huge bonuses on the backs of our concensions! Mark my words....you think the no vote on the last mod was huge...just wait till we take to the streets! What will a month or 2 cost Ford, not to mention the negative media impact and possible loss of market share that we have just gained. Can't wait for the fireworks!

Don't bank on that. GM & Chrysler can continue to have a small advantage over Ford, in terms of costs, and they can't strike until 2014 or 2015. Their next contract, and I'm betting GM & Chrysler management will dig in their heals, if they can't come to terms, has to go to arbitration. One of the conditions of the bailout. And you think under those circumstances, UAW leadership is going to authorize a strike at Ford? I doubt it.

[uawxlt]

we are worth 14 dollars a hour which is not enough to feed our families let alone bye what we produce

http://www.freep.com/article/20100626/BUSINESS01/6260301/1331/Alan-Mulallys-pay-tops-total-of-3-Japanese-car-chiefs

[louie]

How do you propose to provide any help, next contract time, for GM & Chrysler rank & file? 1) they can't strike, and 2) they have to submit to arbitration if they can't come to terms. Both of those conditions of the bailouts, and even if both companies go public, those restrictions stand. Earliest GM & Chrysler can strike is the contract after next. That's another five years.

 

Don't bank on that. GM & Chrysler can continue to have a small advantage over Ford, in terms of costs, and they can't strike until 2014 or 2015. Their next contract, and I'm betting GM & Chrysler management will dig in their heals, if they can't come to terms, has to go to arbitration. One of the conditions of the bailout. And you think under those circumstances, UAW leadership is going to authorize a strike at Ford? I doubt it.

 

We need to raise the labor rates (Ford) so GM and Chrysler can come to terms and pattern with Fords labor cost.

 

We must strike to help GM and Chrysler.

 

The IUAW will not have a choice. We need to stand together and vote down what ever the IUAW brings us. That will force a strike to get more. mThis will result in a long but worth while strike.

 

Save your money. Its our only hope (a long strike)......

[Len_A]

We need to raise the labor rates (Ford) so GM and Chrysler can come to terms and pattern with Fords labor cost.

 

We must strike to help GM and Chrysler.

 

The IUAW will not have a choice. We need to stand together and vote down what ever the IUAW brings us . That will force a strike to get more. This will result in a long but worth while strike.

 

Save your money. Its our only hope (a long strike)......

Man, talk about fucking stubborn and uninformed- GM & Chrysler don't have to pattern with Ford. Hell, the pattern is already somewhat broken, with the last contract mods voted down. UAW can not strike GM or Chrysler until after 2011, and possibly until after 2015. Any contract negotiation dispute at GM and/or Chrysler automatically goes to arbitration. Want to make any bets on how much the arbitrator factors in Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Hyundai/Kia labors rates in making a decision? The bailout terms call for GM & Chrysler labor rates to stay on par with all other auto makers in the U.S., not just Ford. That is the terms of loans. Any deviation from that is a considered a default of the loan agreements.

 

http://www.thedetroi...to-ban-strikes/

 

The proposed contract, however, will restrict the right of union members to strike in contract negotiations in the future. Instead, the contract calls for binding arbitration on economic provisions for any contract negotiated in 2011. The same provision would apply again in 2015, if Chrysler still owed money to the U.S. government, noted one UAW official, and the union wages have to be in line with those paid at other auto plants in the U.S. The arbitrator must base labor costs on pay at Chrysler's U.S. competitors, including foreign-owned manufacturers, according to information distributed by the union.

 

http://www.thedetroi...act-proceeding/

 

Members of the United Auto Workers Union are expected to vote to accept more concessions as part of revised contract with General Motors Corporation, including a ban on strikes until 2015.

 

http://www.reuters.c...E5505AX20090601

 

Under the amended GM contract, the UAW has also given up its power to strike. Any differences with GM when the union's current contract expires in 2011 will be settled by binding arbitration.

 

Industry analysts say this means the UAW has effectively signed a six-year deal to 2015.

 

So, genius, how does a strike at Ford benefit the UAW rank & file at GM or Chrysler? Because under the terms of the bailout, they're stuck being competitive with ALL U.S. auto plants, including foreign owned, and Hyundai & Kia pay everyone around what the entry level is now at the Detroit Three - $14 an hour.

 

The answer is a strike at Ford can't help anyone except Ford's competitors. When the union agreed to the bailout terms last April & May, they effectively banned any pattern with Ford until after 2015. All Chrysler new hires, if they start adding them as they said they would at Jefferson Avenue Assembly, are stuck at $14 an hour until after 2015. Doesn't matter how many seniority employee retire before then. Until 2015, GM & Chrysler have, currently, a slight labor cost advantage over Ford, and if they start hiring a lot of new hourly, it becomes a big advantage by 2015. Deal with it.

 

Only thing a strike at Ford will do is hurt Ford.

[louie]

Man, talk about fucking stubborn and uninformed- GM & Chrysler don't have to pattern with Ford. Hell, the pattern is already somewhat broken, with the last contract mods voted down. UAW can not strike GM or Chrysler until after 2011, and possibly until after 2015. Any contract negotiation dispute at GM and/or Chrysler automatically goes to arbitration. Want to make any bets on how much the arbitrator factors in Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Hyundai/Kia labors rates in making a decision? The bailout terms call for GM & Chrysler labor rates to stay on par with all other auto makers in the U.S., not just Ford. That is the terms of loans. Any deviation from that is a considered a default of the loan agreements.

 

http://www.thedetroi...to-ban-strikes/

 

[/size]

 

http://www.thedetroi...act-proceeding/

 

[/size]

 

http://www.reuters.c...E5505AX20090601

 

 

 

So, genius, how does a strike at Ford benefit the UAW rank & file at GM or Chrysler? Because under the terms of the bailout, they're stuck being competitive with ALL U.S. auto plants, including foreign owned, and Hyundai & Kia pay everyone around what the entry level is now at the Detroit Three - $14 an hour.

 

The answer is a strike at Ford can't help anyone except Ford's competitors. When the union agreed to the bailout terms last April & May, they effectively banned any pattern with Ford until after 2015. All Chrysler new hires, if they start adding them as they said they would at Jefferson Avenue Assembly, are stuck at $14 an hour until after 2015. Doesn't matter how many seniority employee retire before then. Until 2015, GM & Chrysler have, currently, a slight labor cost advantage over Ford, and if they start hiring a lot of new hourly, it becomes a big advantage by 2015. Deal with it.

 

Only thing a strike at Ford will do is hurt Ford.

 

 

Look Len I try to stay away from name calling for I believe it is childish.

 

To explain my rational you may think the pattern is broken you are wrong. We must strike to get our highest labor rate possible. This will raise the rates among all auto manufacturers in the USA. The IUAW will be attempting organizing the transplants. This will raise the rate for the mere attempt to organize.The transplants will throw money (raises) to their employees to keep the UAW out.

 

It will not be upto the UAW whether they want to strike or not, it is upto us, the membership. We need to stick together and turn down anything that is brought to us. We need to stick together and force a strike.

 

Its the only way Len...........

 

Prepare for a strike...... Save your money...... This will be a long one.

[buster6969]

We need to raise the labor rates (Ford) so GM and Chrysler can come to terms and pattern with Fords labor cost.

 

We must strike to help GM and Chrysler.

 

The IUAW will not have a choice. We need to stand together and vote down what ever the IUAW brings us. That will force a strike to get more. mThis will result in a long but worth while strike.

 

Save your money. Its our only hope (a long strike)......

Now that is phuking stupid, strike over an agreement even if we make gains, no strike if we don't get some of our $$ back. That sounds like some Gary W. crap! Lets strike for no reason, brilliant. Lets hope we get enough back not to strike, but if we get nothing then yes lets walk! Thank you for paying down our debt with the money we saved in concessions Alan, give us our money back or walk! Enough of your bonuses off our backs!

[Len_A]

Look Len I try to stay away from name calling for I believe it is childish.

 

To explain my rational you may think the pattern is broken you are wrong. We must strike to get our highest labor rate possible. This will raise the rates among all auto manufacturers in the USA. The IUAW will be attempting organizing the transplants. This will raise the rate for the mere attempt to organize.The transplants will throw money (raises) to their employees to keep the UAW out.

 

It will not be upto the UAW whether they want to strike or not, it is upto us, the membership. We need to stick together and turn down anything that is brought to us. We need to stick together and force a strike.

 

Its the only way Len...........

 

Prepare for a strike...... Save your money...... This will be a long one.

Then you don't understand how binding arbitration works. There is no reason to believe the arbitrator is going to take into consideration any Ford UAW increases. The whole reason that language is in the loan agreements is that the political party in power, during the GM & Chrysler bankruptcies, had the majority of their leadership agreeing with the opposing party, that the Detroit Three hourly pay structure was uncompetitive and out of line with what everyone else pays.

 

And you're wrong about the transplants throwing money at their employees, to keep the UAW out. They're no longer afraid of the UAW or any part of organized labor. GM & Chrysler concessions last year took care of that. I'm too fucking tired to Google it now, but there were several articles last May, after the GM contract was ratified, where Toyota, Honda & Nissan let it "leak" out that they were no longer going to pay competively with Detroit/UAW wages/benefits, but rather will start paying according to " prevailing local rates". You can bet when Toyota moves Corolla production to the new Mississipi plant - the one they mothballed last year - that $12 to $14 an hour is going to be good enough in Canton, Mississipi, not just to start, but indefinately. You can also bet that VW isn't going to pay competitively, with Detroit, in their Tennessee plant, when it starts up, either.

 

And I predict a very chilly reception for the UAW organizers working the transplants. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm dead certain I'm right. Trying to organize the transplants is a long shot.

[Hawk00]

Then you don't understand how binding arbitration works. There is no reason to believe the arbitrator is going to take into consideration any Ford UAW increases. The whole reason that language is in the loan agreements is that the political party in power, during the GM & Chrysler bankruptcies, had the majority of their leadership agreeing with the opposing party, that the Detroit Three hourly pay structure was uncompetitive and out of line with what everyone else pays.

 

And you're wrong about the transplants throwing money at their employees, to keep the UAW out. They're no longer afraid of the UAW or any part of organized labor. GM & Chrysler concessions last year took care of that. I'm too fucking tired to Google it now, but there were several articles last May, after the GM contract was ratified, where Toyota, Honda & Nissan let it "leak" out that they were no longer going to pay competively with Detroit/UAW wages/benefits, but rather will start paying according to " prevailing local rates". You can bet when Toyota moves Corolla production to the new Mississipi plant - the one they mothballed last year - that $12 to $14 an hour is going to be good enough in Canton, Mississipi, not just to start, but indefinately. You can also bet that VW isn't going to pay competitively, with Detroit, in their Tennessee plant, when it starts up, either.

 

And I predict a very chilly reception for the UAW organizers working the transplants. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm dead certain I'm right. Trying to organize the transplants is a long shot.

 

Len,Len..You continue to talk out of both sides of your mouth. One day you're on the workers side, the next on the companies. As long as you get to argue you'll take either posistion. You freely admit labour costs are higher in Japan and Europe and then turn around and sqwauk about the cheap labour in the low cost of living redneck states. Our tax dollars went to bailout the competiton and give Chrsyler away to an Italin company. Then Ford workers matched every concession of the bailout companies to help out the company. If Ford expects the same next time they can file for BK themselves and give up the Lions, Ford field, total control etc.

 

Mullay's passion seems to be publicly demonizing the folks who build the product. Not a good plan, As he and you will find out. The corporations ended pattern barganing and no one cares what Fiat is paying. KIA min waging the Alabama folks? Who cares...The Soul is about 10k cheaper than the Escape with a labour difference of about $200 per vehecile...cry us a river.

[Len_A]

Len,Len..You continue to talk out of both sides of your mouth. One day you're on the workers side, the next on the companies. As long as you get to argue you'll take either posistion. You freely admit labour costs are higher in Japan and Europe and then turn around and sqwauk about the cheap labour in the low cost of living redneck states. Our tax dollars went to bailout the competiton and give Chrsyler away to an Italin company. Then Ford workers matched every concession of the bailout companies to help out the company. If Ford expects the same next time they can file for BK themselves and give up the Lions, Ford field, total control etc.

 

Mullay's passion seems to be publicly demonizing the folks who build the product. Not a good plan, As he and you will find out. The corporations ended pattern barganing and no one cares what Fiat is paying. KIA min waging the Alabama folks? Who cares...The Soul is about 10k cheaper than the Escape with a labour difference of about $200 per vehecile...cry us a river.

Look, I'm not the one who wrote the terms of the bailouts. I'm pointing out that the GM & Chrysler UAW are struck with binding arbitration, and the terms of the binding arbitration demand that labor costs stay comparable to, as you put it, cheap labor in redneck states. So don't blame me for pointing out what should be obvious. Striking Ford, in order to help GM & Chrysler rank & File, won't help anyone. They're stuck with the terms of their contracts until 2015. I don't see anyway out.

 

Second, I've never bought the idea that crabbing about what the execs at the top make has any bearing on what anyone else, blue collar or white collar makes. And making comparisons to Japanese execs is downright silly. Japan's business world is a closed society, and they work everyone nearly to death. Maybe we should adopt that practice too? I think not.

 

I haven't heard Mulally demonize anyone -cite a source please, any source. I think you're looking in the wrong direction. The ones who demonized the average blue collar worker at the Detroit Three were the politicians in both parties, including the group of people the Obama administration had overseeing the GM & Chrysler bailouts. Who do you think put the binding arbitration terms, calling for parity with the "cheap labor in redneck states", in the agreements?