Medium Duty Update

[Joe771476]

7M3.....................I think it's helped Ford because I'm seeing a lot more Ford mediums lately and I haven't seen one new Hino with the new grille yet.

[Joe771476]

Fire Apparatus magazine: I saw for the first time a 2009 F750 1800 gallon tanker and a 2010 F750 450 gal tank/1250GPM pumper! Meanwhile, the latest F550 grille work is massive! The picture appeared in print with a Mack dump truck in the background with its nose ripped apart in several places! Weird. Couldn't they have had a Ford dump in the background?

[Joe771476]

National Ford Truck Club: I saw the magazine a few months ago with William Shatner pitching Fords. Then I found this website. Some nice pics of F750's flashing above the web page.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Joe771476

[7Mary3]

Fire Apparatus magazine: I saw for the first time a 2009 F750 1800 gallon tanker and a 2010 F750 450 gal tank/1250GPM pumper! Meanwhile, the latest F550 grille work is massive! The picture appeared in print with a Mack dump truck in the background with its nose ripped apart in several places! Weird. Couldn't they have had a Ford dump in the background?

 

Wow, a B series Cummins turning a 1250 gpm pump. Wonder how long that would last. My guess not long!

[lfeg]

Just received the latest issue of the publication "Heavy Equipment Guide", and here are my observations.

 

The only ad for anything larger than a pickup is from Western Star for their Star Series heavy vocationals.

Full page pickup ads from Chevy and Dodge prompting DRW 1 tons.

Full back cover ad for Ford pickups, touting best in class fuel economy (almost did not see this ad, as I never usually look at the back cover).

 

Press release on Hino's 2011 mediums and what they call a "light-duty" - a class 5 called the 198. It has a 220 hp 7.6 liter Hino diesel.

Another interesting thing is they now have an option on the mediums to have nothing mounted outside of the frame rails, instead that all is mounted behind the cab. Also, all engines use SCR for emissions, and they are advertising 3% to 5% better fuel economy.

 

Also, Fuso is introducing a dual clutch automated shifting manual transmission. Six forward gears and it also has a "creep" function. It is said to offer lower fuel consumption.

 

There was also an interesting piece on self loading trailers for wind energy tower components.

Edited October 8, 2010 by lfeg

[Bob Rosadini]

Wow, a B series Cummins turning a 1250 gpm pump. Wonder how long that would last. My guess not long!

7M3- I would tend to agree-then again look at the torque/HP ratings of the B Series for emergency use- then compare those numbers to the "old days"- say a 534 ford, or a 549 IH or a 478 GMC or even say a B Model Mack with a non-turbo 673? I agree no substitute for cubic inches, but on paper it should work..

 

And Joe '76- I agree- everytime I see a ford commercial truck ad and it features say a 350/450/550, I say the same thing- why isn't there a 650/750 in the background- in particular when they run that ad that has the whole fami;ly in it-including E series.

 

Maybe they think the 550 in that ad is in good company with that old warhorse R model in the background!

 

I maintain my position though that when it comes to medium duty, they are lousy marketers. I saw a Ford Comercial truck website, and if you didn't know better, you would think that 650/750 was only available with an Allison!

 

I'll say it again- medium duty sales will rebound and the class 8 market will move to truly vocational trucks including baby 8 traqctors that handle short haul container distribution- the market will be there-my guess is the bobbleheads are filling Alan wiith stories of ..."why spend money on a limited market" .

 

The car guys that led to the sale of big trucks in 98 are still around I'm afraid. Case in Point- south of Boston there is a large heavy truck dealership that was a full line Ford truck dealer in the old days-well they sell Navistar now in addition to Ford mediums and Western Stars. Someone told me these guys can't sell 250's/350's because some struggling but long standing car dealer is down the street from them. If I'm a contractor I want ONE dealer relationship. This car dealer had a big campaign this weekend advertising their "truck business" -the guy doing the talking sounded like some kid-probably the owner's son-in law-who I'll guaranttee dowesn't know shit about the product he sells and has no passion for it. but you think the car guys that run Ford are going to seed anytjing wrong with this?

 

I doubt it. I'd love to admit I'm wrong.

[lfeg]

I got a quick glimpse of a news release in an SAE publication on the International electric powered light medium late yesterday. My, does it have a large windshield!. Supposedly Fed Ex will be putting some in service in an urban delivery situation. I will see if I can find the whole release. Anyone else hear anything on this?

[lfeg]

Wow, a B series Cummins turning a 1250 gpm pump. Wonder how long that would last. My guess not long!

 

 

I have seen the Cummins B Series powering equipment in some pretty severe high power applications, particularly crushing plants, and they hold up pretty well. The trick seems to be limiting load changes. And 1250 GPM pump is not all that severe if the pressure is reasonable.

[Bob Rosadini]

I have seen the Cummins B Series powering equipment in some pretty severe high power applications, particularly crushing plants, and they hold up pretty well. The trick seems to be limiting load changes. And 1250 GPM pump is not all that severe if the pressure is reasonable.

Like I said before- on paper the 6.7 has better numbers than the big diesels of the early 60's. Now to solve the problem, why don't they try to shoehorn the 8.3 in? The 750 has all the specs in terms of axles, frames etc to make it work. I assume Frontal area, cooling is the issue? If they really want to offer a baby 8 -and a 37,000 lb gvw package, a 6.7 as the only engine is not going to cut it.

[7Mary3]

Like I said before- on paper the 6.7 has better numbers than the big diesels of the early 60's. Now to solve the problem, why don't they try to shoehorn the 8.3 in? The 750 has all the specs in terms of axles, frames etc to make it work. I assume Frontal area, cooling is the issue? If they really want to offer a baby 8 -and a 37,000 lb gvw package, a 6.7 as the only engine is not going to cut it.

 

Cummins will not allow the B series to be used in a tandem either. I do not doubt that the B is used in some pretty severe non-automotive applications, but all the 1250 gpm pumpers I have seen are powered with Detroit 60's, Cummins ISX or N-14's. That large a pump requires a big bore diesel not just for horsepower, but for reliability as well. Not to mention a pumper with a 1250 gpm pump should have a large water tank on board as well.

 

Thing about the F-650/750 is that they used to be offered with the Cat C-7, and if that chassis will take a C-7, it really shouldn't be too much trouble to get a ISC 8.3 Cummins in it. But with sales on track to barely pass 4000 units total this year, I doubt there is much incentive for 'Blue Diamond' to go through the trouble to engineer and certify another diesel option.

 

At this point, I am not sure Ford really knows what role they will play in the medium truck market in future years. Certainly there are a lot of questions as to what that market will be like in the future. I see (as Bob R. does) a shift away from class 8 linehaul that may result in a larger class 7 regional haul market. Freightliner and International are redoubling their efforts in medium duty, and there are many rumors that GM will reenter the medium market with an as yet unnamed partner. I don't see Mitsubishs Fuso, Isuzu, or Nissan UD doing much. Jury is still out on Hino, they were coming on strong for a while there but now seem to be slowing.

[Edstock]

FWIW, Ford make a 9 liter diesel in Turkey, used in Transits. If it will fit in a Transit . . .

[jpd80]

FWIW, Ford make a 9 liter diesel in Turkey, used in Transits. If it will fit in a Transit . . .

 

That the Big I-6 (7.3 -9.0 liter) is used in Ford Cargo trucks that are/were also built there.

[Bob Rosadini]

That the Big I-6 (7.3 -9.0 liter) is used in Ford Cargo trucks that are/were also built there.

My guess would be .."does not meet US emmissions standards".

They do use the 8.3 in the South American Cargo-which looks just like the original Cargo that was ultimately built at KTP until the "give away" to Daimler.

[Bob Rosadini]

Note October sales-down 12% for the month and 25% YTD. How about it-any Ford truck people out there with some insight into what is going on? To a 'civilian", it looks like nothing is happening but continuing erosion of the brand. No sign of any new product even though the medium duty market is set to rebound. If they are going to do something, they should do it quick.

 

I'm headed down to a friend of mine's steel supply business today. I met this guy 40 years ago when we were freshmen in college. Forty years ago they had a fleet of Fords- f-750's, F-800's. Forty years later, they are still running F-750's. There is still a loyal customer base out there but if it were my business, I think I would be looking for some sign that what I buy today will be supported say five years from now.

[7Mary3]

The 650 and 750 seem destined for a Crown Vic./Ranger 'fade out'. If sales stay below 5000 units annually, I can't blame Ford. I predict there will be somewhat of a jump in sales when the gas V-10 option reached production (and a certain fleet places a large order), but after that?

[Joe771476]

Ford needs the mediums to keep the Class 3 thru 5 Super Duty biz.. This applies to landscapers especially. If you give Fiat a reason to make a Dodge medium, then you can kiss a ton of Super Duty biz goodbye when landscapers switch to Dodge for class 1 thru 7! I see so many light construction outfits using Ford for all their needs. The utility companies is another segment that would apply. I've already said that Ford has lost a lot of car and light truck biz because municipalities saw their tunnel vision for Fords was eliminated when they had to go searching for another class 8 truck and realized hey, there's Chevy and Dodge light trucks, cars and vans out there too! Ford has lost at least 5 million unit sales -- maybe more -- over the last 10 years because they dropped class 6-8 Louisville.

[Bob Rosadini]

Ford needs the mediums to keep the Class 3 thru 5 Super Duty biz.. This applies to landscapers especially. If you give Fiat a reason to make a Dodge medium, then you can kiss a ton of Super Duty biz goodbye when landscapers switch to Dodge for class 1 thru 7! I see so many light construction outfits using Ford for all their needs. The utility companies is another segment that would apply. I've already said that Ford has lost a lot of car and light truck biz because municipalities saw their tunnel vision for Fords was eliminated when they had to go searching for another class 8 truck and realized hey, there's Chevy and Dodge light trucks, cars and vans out there too! Ford has lost at least 5 million unit sales -- maybe more -- over the last 10 years because they dropped class 6-8 Louisville.

I would agree Joe with that point-I'm sure there are plenty of commercial truck accounts that don't go into class 8 but do run significant numbers in 1-7. Right now Ford is the sole company in that position. Let's hope they don't blow it.