UAW's pattern talks no longer suffice

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

http://www.freep.com/article/20100923/BUSINESS01/9230485/1318/UAWs-pattern-talks-no-longer-suffice

 

:reading:

[lquidspine]

Although GM and Chrysler got favorable deals during the period leading into their bankruptcies, Ford did not get as many favorable conditions when it reached a deal to save more than $500 million annually in early 2009

 

Read more: UAW's pattern talks no longer suffice | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20100923/BUSINESS01/9230485/1318/UAWs-pattern-talks-no-longer-suffice#ixzz10MpPd3yN

 

Ford did not get two main conditions the other two got , 1.restrictions on the right to strike 2. pay freeze on entry level workers until 2015.

 

UAW has not gone on strike nationally against Ford since 1976, do they really believe it will happen next year ?

Then there is the entry level pay freeze, again will there really be a need to 8 thousand new workers in the next 5 years ? i highly doubt either case.

 

All the yearly/daily gains where huge the company got back; the 10 minutes extra production time from the loss of break time and pay raise loss /or the bonus that where to be in lieu of those pay raises have saved the company millions.

[dtpbody]

Ford did not get two main conditions the other two got , 1.restrictions on the right to strike 2. pay freeze on entry level workers until 2015.

 

UAW has not gone on strike nationally against Ford since 1976, do they really believe it will happen next year ?

Then there is the entry level pay freeze, again will there really be a need to 8 thousand new workers in the next 5 years ? i highly doubt either case.

 

All the yearly/daily gains where huge the company got back; the 10 minutes extra production time from the loss of break time and pay raise loss /or the bonus that where to be in lieu of those pay raises have saved the company millions.

 

Yup, everyday the company made 50 extra vehicles on our asses, that was their profit from the break minutes.. I figured this out for the F-150 and it came out to about 50 more trucks per week x 2 (2 shifts). I could be wrong, but it's about right.

[The Dirty One DTP]

Yup, everyday the company made 50 extra vehicles on our asses, that was their profit from the break minutes.. I figured this out for the F-150 and it came out to about 50 more trucks per week x 2 (2 shifts). I could be wrong, but it's about right.

Out of all the company took back from us I want my break time back the most..with tag relief going would it realistically cost them anything to do so??...

[ReDemption]

Really you want your break time back before;

 

1. Job Security Program (JSP) restored

2. Lower Tier Wage’s stricken

3. Maintenance Mechanical SOG’s restored

4. Retiree Health care cost coverage restored in full

5. COLA Increases Restored

6. Performance Bonuses Restored

7. X-Mass Bonus Restored

8. Overtime Pay for work performed past 8 hours Restored

9. Vacation Pay In Lieu Restored

 

Don’t get me wrong, getting the break time back would be nice, but certainly not ranked in my book before any of these. Ok maybe not the pay in lieu, I wouldn’t mind getting the break time back before that one.

 

Jeff Hodges

DTP Body

Box Unit (outer)

[dtpbody]

Really you want your break time back before;

 

1. Job Security Program (JSP) restored

2. Lower Tier Wage’s stricken

3. Maintenance Mechanical SOG’s restored

4. Retiree Health care cost coverage restored in full

5. COLA Increases Restored

6. Performance Bonuses Restored

7. X-Mass Bonus Restored

8. Overtime Pay for work performed past 8 hours Restored

9. Vacation Pay In Lieu Restored

 

Don’t get me wrong, getting the break time back would be nice, but certainly not ranked in my book before any of these. Ok maybe not the pay in lieu, I wouldn’t mind getting the break time back before that one.

 

Jeff Hodges

DTP Body

Box Unit (outer)

 

I agree, but it's a change they could make overnight out of the goodness of their hearts! hahahah

 

yes we should be getting all this back on that list next contract and if we don't there should be hell to pay. What we need to be doing is marching every weekend outside the IUAW doors.

 

[skeptic]

I agree, but it's a change they could make overnight out of the goodness of their hearts! hahahah

 

yes we should be getting all this back on that list next contract and if we don't there should be hell to pay. What we need to be doing is marching every weekend outside the IUAW doors.

 

Why is it that when the company wants concessions the contract is opened for renegotiation.Yet the The UAW has never opened a contract to benefit the workers this union pretends to represent.

[fordd]

Really you want your break time back before;

 

1. Job Security Program (JSP) restored...not gonna happen

2. Lower Tier Wage’s stricken...not gonna happen

3. Maintenance Mechanical SOG’s restored...not gonna happen

4. Retiree Health care cost coverage restored in full...ummmmmm not gonna happen

5. COLA Increases Restored...maybe, but doubtful

6. Performance Bonuses Restored...probably in some form

7. X-Mass Bonus Restored..probably

8. Overtime Pay for work performed past 8 hours Restored...not gonna happen

9. Vacation Pay In Lieu Restored...maybe

 

Don’t get me wrong, getting the break time back would be nice, but certainly not ranked in my book before any of these. Ok maybe not the pay in lieu, I wouldn’t mind getting the break time back before that one.

 

Jeff Hodges

DTP Body

Box Unit (outer)

 

 

I beleive that everything given up will not come back exactly how it was voted away. I think we will see bigger bonuses based on the profitability of the comapny but the days of having so many defined benefits are over.

[Pioneer]

1. Job Security Program (JSP) restored

2. Lower Tier Wage's stricken

3. Maintenance Mechanical SOG's restored

4. Retiree Health care cost coverage restored in full

5. COLA Increases Restored

6. Performance Bonuses Restored

7. X-Mass Bonus Restored

8. Overtime Pay for work performed past 8 hours Restored

9. Vacation Pay In Lieu Restored

 

 

We will never get any of those back, except for maybe the Christmas bonus and the performance bonus since that was basically traded for a wage increase saving the company money over time.

 

In fact, I predict that by the time it's over, Ford will negotiate with, and the Union will grant a buyout of our defined pension. We will probably get a flat amount per year of service deposited into a 401k account.

 

Just because things are looking up doesn't mean we will get anything back. We still have to compete with the right to work states, and slave wages from Mexico, Korea, and soon to be China. Not to mention the fact that some in the general public hates us and refuses to buy UAW assembled products.

[Trimdingman]

We will never get any of those back, except for maybe the Christmas bonus and the performance bonus since that was basically traded for a wage increase saving the company money over time.

 

In fact, I predict that by the time it's over, Ford will negotiate with, and the Union will grant a buyout of our defined pension. We will probably get a flat amount per year of service deposited into a 401k account.

 

Just because things are looking up doesn't mean we will get anything back. We still have to compete with the right to work states, and slave wages from Mexico, Korea, and soon to be China. Not to mention the fact that some in the general public hates us and refuses to buy UAW assembled products.

 

 

The number one reason why companies are leaving is not wages. It is high taxes and government regulations. Wages are offset by distance. It costs a lot of money to ship a new car. It costs more to ship a car from China to a U.S. dealership than it costs in labor to assemble it in the U.S. The number one consideration when choosing a location for an auto assembly plant is how many customers are in a 500 mile radius. This would usually be an affluent high wage area. They don't care. At least that was the case until recently. Now avoiding big government is a huge deciding factor.

[Grim Reaper]

We will never get any of those back, except for maybe the Christmas bonus and the performance bonus since that was basically traded for a wage increase saving the company money over time.

 

In fact, I predict that by the time it's over, Ford will negotiate with, and the Union will grant a buyout of our defined pension. We will probably get a flat amount per year of service deposited into a 401k account.

 

Just because things are looking up doesn't mean we will get anything back. We still have to compete with the right to work states, and slave wages from Mexico, Korea, and soon to be China. Not to mention the fact that some in the general public hates us and refuses to buy UAW assembled products.

 

 

We need job security. With that said we need to fill up our Assembly, Engine, Transmission and Stamping plants full running 3 shifts each.

 

Without product in our plants we will soon end up with nothing.

 

Chicago, DTP, Wayne site, LAP, KTP, Lima, Clevland, Vandyke, Sterling, Woodhaven Stamping, Woodhaven Forge all benefitted from the 2007 and 2008 agreements. Its time for the rest of the plants to get investment and secure jobs for the next 10 years and longer.

 

Pioneer I agree with you it would be nice to get at least half of these things back but jobs and investment are number 1 on my list.

[Pioneer]

We need job security. With that said we need to fill up our Assembly, Engine, Transmission and Stamping plants full running 3 shifts each.

 

I can easily see Ford wanting to close at least one each of those plants in the next contract. There is too much empty floor space in every plant to justify keeping all of them open.

[dtpbody]

We will never get any of those back, except for maybe the Christmas bonus and the performance bonus since that was basically traded for a wage increase saving the company money over time.

 

In fact, I predict that by the time it's over, Ford will negotiate with, and the Union will grant a buyout of our defined pension. We will probably get a flat amount per year of service deposited into a 401k account.

 

Just because things are looking up doesn't mean we will get anything back. We still have to compete with the right to work states, and slave wages from Mexico, Korea, and soon to be China. Not to mention the fact that some in the general public hates us and refuses to buy UAW assembled products.

 

They can't take bonus money or raises and put it in a 401k account, it's against the law.

 

Not only that but Livonia transmission benefited from a large money infusion years ago to update their facility for new work.

 

Also for the guy above that stated a plant is built where there could be more sales is wrong, sales depend on the model and demographics of the whole country. If your targeting kids, then your targeting kids to buy that model all over the US because of the mass company advertising and brand name being known so widely.

 

When they build a plant, they usually want everything close together because while trucking may cost less then Rail, trucking is mostly used to transport parts and vehicles.

 

If your building a car to market to US and Japan you don't build it in the middle of the ocean, it's built where the wages are lower.

 

Too bad this country can't reform NAFTA, the problem is, we are so scared of going to war with large countries like China, we have to shake their hand and say they can sell here.

 

Listen I'm all for them selling here, but there must be FREE Trade, it can't be more one sided then the other.

 

Someone above talked about us having too much regulation. We do not!!! we need regulation. Not having regulation is what caused you to foreclose on your house remember???

 

I can solve everyone's problem in one day in this country wanna hear how?????

 

CREDIT CARD ABUSE BY THE BANKS!

 

you want regulation lets start regulating what the banks can charge on interested with credit cards.

 

Moratoriums on drilling and home foreclosures????

 

How bout a bank moratorium on interest rates for 12 months??

 

Let people pay their cards off and get out of debt. Once people get out of debt they start spending, paying for college, buying autos, investing more in stock, building small businesses!..

 

This country is so bogged down in credit card debt and it's because of NO REGULATION on the banks!!!

 

PEOPLE WE don't need regulation (the consumer) it's the wall street and the banks that need regulation!.

 

The people your voting for in Nov ask them what they think about this and vote accordingly.

 

Ask yourself what a person can do with no credit card interest for 12 months?

Ask yourself what would happen in the country if that were to happen.

 

No the banks wouldn't make money for 12 months, but 7 out of 10 people would get out of debt!

Edited September 26, 2010 by dtpbody

[Pioneer]

They can't take bonus money or raises and put it in a 401k account, it's against the law.

 

I never said anything about that. I said they would buy us out of our defined pension.

[Pioneer]

double post

 

 

Edited September 26, 2010 by Pioneer

[longball]

They can't take bonus money or raises and put it in a 401k account, it's against the law.

 

Not only that but Livonia transmission benefited from a large money infusion years ago to update their facility for new work.

 

Also for the guy above that stated a plant is built where there could be more sales is wrong, sales depend on the model and demographics of the whole country. If your targeting kids, then your targeting kids to buy that model all over the US because of the mass company advertising and brand name being known so widely.

 

When they build a plant, they usually want everything close together because while trucking may cost less then Rail, trucking is mostly used to transport parts and vehicles.

 

If your building a car to market to US and Japan you don't build it in the middle of the ocean, it's built where the wages are lower.

 

Too bad this country can't reform NAFTA, the problem is, we are so scared of going to war with large countries like China, we have to shake their hand and say they can sell here.

 

Listen I'm all for them selling here, but there must be FREE Trade, it can't be more one sided then the other.

 

Someone above talked about us having too much regulation. We do not!!! we need regulation. Not having regulation is what caused you to foreclose on your house remember???

 

I can solve everyone's problem in one day in this country wanna hear how?????

 

CREDIT CARD ABUSE BY THE BANKS!

 

you want regulation lets start regulating what the banks can charge on interested with credit cards.

 

Moratoriums on drilling and home foreclosures????

 

How bout a bank moratorium on interest rates for 12 months??

 

Let people pay their cards off and get out of debt. Once people get out of debt they start spending, paying for college, buying autos, investing more in stock, building small businesses!..

 

This country is so bogged down in credit card debt and it's because of NO REGULATION on the banks!!!

 

PEOPLE WE don't need regulation (the consumer) it's the wall street and the banks that need regulation!.

 

The people your voting for in Nov ask them what they think about this and vote accordingly.

 

Ask yourself what a person can do with no credit card interest for 12 months?

Ask yourself what would happen in the country if that were to happen.

 

No the banks wouldn't make money for 12 months, but 7 out of 10 people would get out of debt!

 

 

I think you should not carry a balance....then you would have no interest...you agreed to the terms when you used the card...you sound like the Company now...."Times are tough...can you please change how much I owe you".... you should be embarrassed...

[Twincam Harley]

They can't take bonus money or raises and put it in a 401k account, it's against the law.

 

Not only that but Livonia transmission benefited from a large money infusion years ago to update their facility for new work.

 

Also for the guy above that stated a plant is built where there could be more sales is wrong, sales depend on the model and demographics of the whole country. If your targeting kids, then your targeting kids to buy that model all over the US because of the mass company advertising and brand name being known so widely.

 

When they build a plant, they usually want everything close together because while trucking may cost less then Rail, trucking is mostly used to transport parts and vehicles.

 

If your building a car to market to US and Japan you don't build it in the middle of the ocean, it's built where the wages are lower.

 

Too bad this country can't reform NAFTA, the problem is, we are so scared of going to war with large countries like China, we have to shake their hand and say they can sell here.

 

Listen I'm all for them selling here, but there must be FREE Trade, it can't be more one sided then the other.

 

Someone above talked about us having too much regulation. We do not!!! we need regulation. Not having regulation is what caused you to foreclose on your house remember???

 

I can solve everyone's problem in one day in this country wanna hear how?????

 

CREDIT CARD ABUSE BY THE BANKS!

 

you want regulation lets start regulating what the banks can charge on interested with credit cards.

 

Moratoriums on drilling and home foreclosures????

 

How bout a bank moratorium on interest rates for 12 months??

 

Let people pay their cards off and get out of debt. Once people get out of debt they start spending, paying for college, buying autos, investing more in stock, building small businesses!..

 

This country is so bogged down in credit card debt and it's because of NO REGULATION on the banks!!!

 

PEOPLE WE don't need regulation (the consumer) it's the wall street and the banks that need regulation!.

 

The people your voting for in Nov ask them what they think about this and vote accordingly.

 

Ask yourself what a person can do with no credit card interest for 12 months?

Ask yourself what would happen in the country if that were to happen.

 

No the banks wouldn't make money for 12 months, but 7 out of 10 people would get out of debt!

 

Chucky,

 

Credit card debt is the problem of the consumer, not the banks. The problem is easily resolved, DON'T BORROW MONEY!! The banks are entitled to make a profit. The consumer gets to make a decision to borrow and at what interest rate. Don't like the rate? DON'T BORROW! The banks shouldn't have to forego interest because people are in debt. Yeah, you solved everyone's problems in one day! LMAO You're not as smart as you think you are.

 

BTW, NAFTA has nothing to do with China. You know, you're up close to 150 posts since creating a new screen name. LMAO

[gate4medical]

Chucky,

 

Credit card debt is the problem of the consumer, not the banks. The problem is easily resolved, DON'T BORROW MONEY!! The banks are entitled to make a profit. The consumer gets to make a decision to borrow and at what interest rate. Don't like the rate? DON'T BORROW! The banks shouldn't have to forego interest because people are in debt. Yeah, you solved everyone's problems in one day! LMAO You're not as smart as you think you are.

 

BTW, NAFTA has nothing to do with China. You know, you're up close to 150 posts since creating a new screen name. LMAO

 

Have you ever heard of the term "usury" our banks use us, if their vested interest is for us not to pay off our debt, then it's considered usury.

 

Here is the definition: an exorbitant or unlawful rate of interest.

 

I think he's right, if our gov was to impose a cap on credit card interest rates then people would catch up and be debt free.

Edited October 1, 2010 by gate4medical

[standup]

Ford did not get two main conditions the other two got , 1.restrictions on the right to strike 2. pay freeze on entry level workers until 2015.

 

UAW has not gone on strike nationally against Ford since 1976, do they really believe it will happen next year ?

Then there is the entry level pay freeze, again will there really be a need to 8 thousand new workers in the next 5 years ? i highly doubt either case.

 

All the yearly/daily gains where huge the company got back; the 10 minutes extra production time from the loss of break time and pay raise loss /or the bonus that where to be in lieu of those pay raises have saved the company millions.

 

 

I totally disagree that 8,000 new workers will not be needed in 5 years. You must consider we are at one of the lowest downturns history, production levels are at one of the lowest ever. Also some plants outside Michigan have temporary workers that are needed, but haven't been offically hired like KC, Minnesota and Chicago. 5 years is a long period of time and I expect that Ford does plan on increasing production at many plants along with introducing new products, and possibly continuing buyouts to drop labor costs, all of these will increase the likelyhood of Ford needing 8,000 additional workers. I would never vote to give up the cap on two-tier employees, it is playing with fire, if we do.

[Die Wahrheit]

The number one reason why companies are leaving is not wages. It is high taxes and government regulations. Wages are offset by distance. It costs a lot of money to ship a new car. It costs more to ship a car from China to a U.S. dealership than it costs in labor to assemble it in the U.S. The number one consideration when choosing a location for an auto assembly plant is how many customers are in a 500 mile radius. This would usually be an affluent high wage area. They don't care. At least that was the case until recently. Now avoiding big government is a huge deciding factor.

 

 

You are a bigger idiot than I thought if you don't think wages play a great role in a company decision to leave the country. It doesn't take a aero dynamics physics to understand that I can make more off a product if I pay less to have it produced....I know you are from Canada but I thought they had a pretty decent education system.. You should try taking advantage of their education system...

[Trimdingman]

You are a bigger idiot than I thought if you don't think wages play a great role in a company decision to leave the country. It doesn't take a aero dynamics physics to understand that I can make more off a product if I pay less to have it produced....I know you are from Canada but I thought they had a pretty decent education system.. You should try taking advantage of their education system...

 

 

It is a red herring. In the auto industry, the few remaining workers who are directly employed are used as a propaganda tool. One thousand workers per shift assemble 500 cars. That is 2 days pay per car. Peanuts, in the big picture. It is a thousand bucks tops on a $40,000 car. The cost to deliver a car is over a thousand dollars on the window sticker. That is the average cost. If the assembly plant is close to the dealer, that car is $1000 or more cheaper to build and deliver. Workers at a distant assembly plant would have to pay for the privilege of working to offset that advantage. Even if they worked for free, it would cost the company more than paying $70 an hour wages and benefits at a factory close to the dealers.

 

I have a 140 IQ. I study these things every day. You are shallow. I am deep. Try thinking more and believing less.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Trimdingman

[Die Wahrheit]

It is a red herring. In the auto industry, the few remaining workers who are directly employed are used as a propaganda tool. One thousand workers per shift assemble 500 cars. That is 2 days pay per car. Peanuts, in the big picture. It is a thousand bucks tops on a $40,000 car. The cost to deliver a car is over a thousand dollars on the window sticker. That is the average cost. If the assembly plant is close to the dealer, that car is $1000 or more cheaper to build and deliver. Workers at a distant assembly plant would have to pay for the privilege of working to offset that advantage. Even if they worked for free, it would cost the company more than paying $70 an hour wages and benefits at a factory close to the dealers.

 

I have a 140 IQ. I study these things every day. You are shallow. I am deep. Try thinking more and believing less.

 

 

And yet with your 140 IQ you work busting your ass on an assembly line everyday for someone else, making them rich. Yes, YOu are very deep. Try education, IT works...Then go out and start your own business...........

[Trimdingman]

And yet with your 140 IQ you work busting your ass on an assembly line everyday for someone else, making them rich. Yes, YOu are very deep. Try education, IT works...Then go out and start your own business...........

 

 

What does that have to do with the discussion? Show me where I am wrong. Delivery cost of a new car is $1350. Assembly cost in an American plant is 2 days pay, whatever that works out to. It doesn't cost anywhere near $1350 to deliver a car next door. It costs a lot more than the $1350 average to deliver one from China or from Mexico to NYC or Chicago.

 

I had education. Now I am learning.

 

You wouldn't believe what I do for over a hundred grand a year with no responsibilities and no headaches, and security based on high seniority. Banks want to loan me large sums of money at low interest. Do you have that? In this economy, owning a business must be a big stressful headache. Soon it will get a lot worse.

[Furious1Auto]

Pattern Bargaining seems like a good idea for lazy union reps. No other union gets to negotiate with separate individual companies with different financial situations, and get them to follow suit with the other companies that the union represents. Breaking away from pattern bargaining is necessary, because Ford is not GM, or Chrysler!

[jerrymaker]

You are a bigger idiot than I thought if you don't think wages play a great role in a company decision to leave the country. It doesn't take a aero dynamics physics to understand that I can make more off a product if I pay less to have it produced....I know you are from Canada but I thought they had a pretty decent education system.. You should try taking advantage of their education system...

 

 

BINGO, never thought i would agree with die. he is right. i just started at saline. working on the focus i/p. wiring made in china, radio made in china... every part is made somewhere other than the usa. and DIE this is a rep. and dem, problem. the govt. should punish the companies that offshore there work and sell it back here. what do you think DIE, am i right.... we should charge them a tax for offshoring there work and then selling it here. not right. what say YOU?