Company Wide Seniority

[louie]

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Edited November 23, 2010 by louie

[Captain UAW]

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I am UNION all the way, But do you know what kind of logistical nightmare that would be? Not to mention the costs involved!! Just say, they want to cut ten people in Kentucky. The ten lowest people are at Van Dyke. They lay off the ten at Van Dyke and they would have to replace them with who?? The ten lowest at Kentucky truck??? Or say the next ten lowest are in Ohio!! The guys from Ohio go to Van Dyke then the ten from Kentucky go to Ohio? see what I'm saying?

[louie]

I am UNION all the way, But do you know what kind of logistical nightmare that would be? Not to mention the costs involved!! Just say, they want to cut ten people in Kentucky. The ten lowest people are at Van Dyke. They lay off the ten at Van Dyke and they would have to replace them with who?? The ten lowest at Kentucky truck??? Or say the next ten lowest are in Ohio!! The guys from Ohio go to Van Dyke then the ten from Kentucky go to Ohio? see what I'm saying?

 

Not exactly.

 

With the company wide seniority you would bump the lowest person working. So if you were laid off and had high seniority you would displace the lowest in the system regardless of location.

 

Then if the next person above you at your former location was ILOed with you they would then bump the lowest person working.

 

Its not pretty but this is what company wide seniority looks like.

[EvilTwin]

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Company Wide is unrealistic and to disruptive to everyone's families. Zone seniority seems best to me with immediate bump rights to anyone from a closed plant.

[uawfactoryrat]

I am UNION all the way, But do you know what kind of logistical nightmare that would be? Not to mention the costs involved!! Just say, they want to cut ten people in Kentucky. The ten lowest people are at Van Dyke. They lay off the ten at Van Dyke and they would have to replace them with who?? The ten lowest at Kentucky truck??? Or say the next ten lowest are in Ohio!! The guys from Ohio go to Van Dyke then the ten from Kentucky go to Ohio? see what I'm saying?

There are many ways to do it. Zone bumping is the easiest and fairest way to do it. Why should someone be out 3-4 years when there is a guy with 6 years less then myself working 10 miles away.

 

You will here that is unfair to him. But if it was you that sat out for that long you would feel the same. The way they have it set up is wrong. Look at it this way.

 

Say you are at plant that closes, you have no right to go back to production and keep all your company seniority because the plant is closed. There are no trades openings because the company is combining trades, the local leadership at plants do not want to post for jobs because it will piss off trades cutting their overtime and bringing in higher seniority trades, thus hurting their chance for RE-ELECTION.

 

So you take a TEMP-LONG Term job on the line somewhere with a fraction of your company seniority because once again...the local leadership doesn't want to piss off voters by bringing in people with more time. So now I'm on the line with 4 years instead of say 20 years. Is this fair?????????

 

Oh ya...long term meaning 1-3 years????? I would think this long would be considered perminant....Oh no, that's not the case. So mean while you work with low seniority not having a chance in hell in getting a promotional bid on the worst shift.

 

I can only thank the membership for voting down the last mods. If you remember, in those mods it combined trades giving us an even less chance of getting picked up.

Since we are out numbered say 20 to 1 why do production vote on what happens to us anyway? Why do we vote on what happens to production?

 

If they voted to out source trades and agreed to give everyone a 10,000 dollar signing bonus, what would happen to trades????????????

 

 

The next contract could play out just like that.

[kcman23]

There are many ways to do it. Zone bumping is the easiest and fairest way to do it. Why should someone be out 3-4 years when there is a guy with 6 years less then myself working 10 miles away.

 

You will here that is unfair to him. But if it was you that sat out for that long you would feel the same. The way they have it set up is wrong. Look at it this way.

 

Say you are at plant that closes, you have no right to go back to production and keep all your company seniority because the plant is closed. There are no trades openings because the company is combining trades, the local leadership at plants do not want to post for jobs because it will piss off trades cutting their overtime and bringing in higher seniority trades, thus hurting their chance for RE-ELECTION.

 

So you take a TEMP-LONG Term job on the line somewhere with a fraction of your company seniority because once again...the local leadership doesn't want to piss off voters by bringing in people with more time. So now I'm on the line with 4 years instead of say 20 years. Is this fair?????????

 

Oh ya...long term meaning 1-3 years????? I would think this long would be considered perminant....Oh no, that's not the case. So mean while you work with low seniority not having a chance in hell in getting a promotional bid on the worst shift.

 

I can only thank the membership for voting down the last mods. If you remember, in those mods it combined trades giving us an even less chance of getting picked up.

Since we are out numbered say 20 to 1 why do production vote on what happens to us anyway? Why do we vote on what happens to production?

 

If they voted to out source trades and agreed to give everyone a 10,000 dollar signing bonus, what would happen to trades????????????

 

 

The next contract could play out just like that.

It will happen, but you aint getting no 10,000. :shades: trades will be consolidated next fall. That is Bob King's brainchild!

[Armstrong]

Company Wide is unrealistic and to disruptive to everyone's families. Zone seniority seems best to me with immediate bump rights to anyone from a closed plant.

 

ILO is ILO zone seniority would be better. No special treatment for closed locations. ILO is ILO no matter how you cut it if you have zone seniority.

[nvsked]

 

I can only thank the membership for voting down the last mods. If you remember, in those mods it combined trades giving us an even less chance of getting picked up.

Since we are out numbered say 20 to 1 why do production vote on what happens to us anyway? Why do we vote on what happens to production?

 

If they voted to out source trades and agreed to give everyone a 10,000 dollar signing bonus, what would happen to trades????????????

 

The next contract could play out just like that.

 

Try reading the UAW Constitution .......

 

ARTICLE 19 Contracts and Negotiations

 

SECTION 3

(1) Separate Ratification Rights for Skilled Trades

 

Where separate ratification rights have been approved for skilled trades, only skilled tradespersons may vote in such contract ratification meetings for skilled trades. (Black Lake, 6/10/71, Pages 276-277.)

[uawfactoryrat]

Try reading the UAW Constitution .......

 

ARTICLE 19 Contracts and Negotiations

 

SECTION 3

(1) Separate Ratification Rights for Skilled Trades

 

Where separate ratification rights have been approved for skilled trades, only skilled trades persons may vote in such contract ratification meetings for skilled trades. (Black Lake, 6/10/71, Pages 276-277.)

The last contract modification that we turned down had trades being put into basically two trades along with concessions that only affected production workers.They were not separated, all concessions were lumped together.

Edited November 30, 2010 by uawfactoryrat

[Armstrong]

Wow....... The seniority poll is strongly against any seniority changes

[EvilTwin]

Wow....... The seniority poll is strongly against any seniority changes

 

 

That's because the majority of the voters are working......90% of the U.A.W. is working. Why would they want to make a change. Leave em out in the cold....who cares. Voting on something like this would be just a waist of time.

[uawfactoryrat]

That's because the majority of the voters are working......90% of the U.A.W. is working. Why would they want to make a change. Leave em out in the cold....who cares. Voting on something like this would be just a waist of time.

No doubt, the funny thing is, it's the fair thing to do. No one cares unless they are affected, then watch out! If they took all the trades out and placed them evenly throughout the zone it would work. All the overtime used to cover empty shifts would dry up and the guys with 45 years would leave and all would balance out. Or better yet, start making people actually do there pm's or work a full shift on the weekends and watch them run for the doors!

[hoardpm]

I kinda have mixed emotions about this one. I work at KCAP with 9 years in. Do I think it would be fair for someone from another plant that is 1000 miles away put me to the street? Well, no. But, at the same time. We have no fewer than 50 temps working and I believe a permanent employee should be able to bump them. It is my understanding that we can not use our senority over them to bump for shift prefence let alone bump them to the street. This is total bull shit.

[EvilTwin]

I kinda have mixed emotions about this one. I work at KCAP with 9 years in. Do I think it would be fair for someone from another plant that is 1000 miles away put me to the street? Well, no. But, at the same time. We have no fewer than 50 temps working and I believe a permanent employee should be able to bump them. It is my understanding that we can not use our senority over them to bump for shift prefence let alone bump them to the street. This is total bull shit.

 

 

 

This is why zone seniority makes more sense. In my case...I am totally screwed. Even-though I have 20 yrs in my trade I have no home plant and i'm in a trade that is way overloaded. (P/F) If I don't get placed by the next contract (2011) I'm out of a paycheck and if they go to 3 trades in 2011 ....well ,then I'll need a miracle. Putting my fate on the line with a majority rule ...I'm toast.

[EvilTwin]

This is why zone seniority makes more sense. In my case...I am totally screwed. Even-though I have 20 yrs in my trade I have no home plant and i'm in a trade that is way overloaded. (P/F) If I don't get placed by the next contract (2011) I'm out of a paycheck and if they go to 3 trades in 2011 ....well ,then I'll need a miracle. Putting my fate on the line with a majority rule ...I'm toast.

 

 

 

Oh,.....and if it can happen to me....It can happen to anyone under the right circumstances.

[Armstrong]

Oh,.....and if it can happen to me....It can happen to anyone under the right circumstances.

 

I put a resolution in for zone seniority. I do have friends in trades working with 20 years seniority on temp jobs. I know how you feel.

[end of time]

For years ford would lay off in one plant and just a mile or two down the road hire at another plant. This went on for years, and ford would not give the laid off workers a chance at the new jobs. Kinda how they treat the temp workers. now. So the UAW nego. that employees had transfer rights. Well in the late 70's early 80's the UAW wanted to go with national sen. but many complained. So they went with leveling dates. That was to appease the selfish ones. Well after numerous leveling dates, I would have thought it was fair that anyone hiring in after 1984 would have company time not plant time. And it would be fair to all. It's not right for the company to use one workforce in a plant against another and that is what they do. (just look at the givebacks) anyone could end up at a c losed plant, Even dearborn, With Ford it's about the money just like its about the money for us workers.

[EvilTwin]

For years ford would lay off in one plant and just a mile or two down the road hire at another plant. This went on for years, and ford would not give the laid off workers a chance at the new jobs. Kinda how they treat the temp workers. now. So the UAW nego. that employees had transfer rights. Well in the late 70's early 80's the UAW wanted to go with national sen. but many complained. So they went with leveling dates. That was to appease the selfish ones. Well after numerous leveling dates, I would have thought it was fair that anyone hiring in after 1984 would have company time not plant time. And it would be fair to all. It's not right for the company to use one workforce in a plant against another and that is what they do. (just look at the givebacks) anyone could end up at a c losed plant, Even dearborn, With Ford it's about the money just like its about the money for us workers.

 

 

Getting a Trades job in a new plant has more to do with timing than seniority. Zone seniority has been rarely used unless your an Electrician or Stationary Steam. Most openings have been filled from inside the plants.( Re-training included) If you signed up for a temp job because your running low on tap weeks,you risk losing a job placement because your not on ILO. If you have no home plant it's like a crap shoot. Roll the dice and hope for a seven.....

[Skilled1]

Getting a Trades job in a new plant has more to do with timing than seniority. Zone seniority has been rarely used unless your an Electrician or Stationary Steam. Most openings have been filled from inside the plants.( Re-training included) If you signed up for a temp job because your running low on tap weeks,you risk losing a job placement because your not on ILO.

 

 

ILO, Temp Job are treated as the same, by seniority. Why would you lie?

[EvilTwin]

ILO, Temp Job are treated as the same, by seniority. Why would you lie?

 

 

 

I should be more specific....If your working a temp job and you have no home plant your stuck on that temp job.....The guy on I.L.O. without a home plant and less seniority than you will be able to apply for an in zone spot.

[uawfactoryrat]

I should be more specific....If your working a temp job and you have no home plant your stuck on that temp job.....The guy on I.L.O. without a home plant and less seniority than you will be able to apply for an in zone spot.

WRONG!!!

[EvilTwin]

WRONG!!!

 

 

 

Doesn't seem right to me either....But it just happened to me. There was an out of zone P/F job just posted for Chicago. I am working a temp job at the Vandyke trans plant along with 4 other P/F's. 3 from a closed plant that still has a P/F on I.L.O........Those 3 were told they could bid on the Chicago job. Me and the other P/F from a closed plant that has no P/F on I.L.O. were told we could not bid even though I have more trade seniority than them. I am the high seniority P/F in zone 2 and i'm tell'in ya ......ZONE SENIORITY AIN'T WORTH A SHIT!

[lovelincolns]

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Plant seniority should always rule except when work is actually moved to another plant.

[whiteford]

Doesn't seem right to me either....But it just happened to me. There was an out of zone P/F job just posted for Chicago. I am working a temp job at the Vandyke trans plant along with 4 other P/F's. 3 from a closed plant that still has a P/F on I.L.O........Those 3 were told they could bid on the Chicago job. Me and the other P/F from a closed plant that has no P/F on I.L.O. were told we could not bid even though I have more trade seniority than them. I am the high seniority P/F in zone 2 and i'm tell'in ya ......ZONE SENIORITY AIN'T WORTH A SHIT!

 

I dont know who told you this but you should have been able to bid on these jobs. You are working temp. but your status is ILO. The international stated that we have ILO status while working these temp jobs. Take it higher.

[louie]

I dont know who told you this but you should have been able to bid on these jobs. You are working temp. but your status is ILO. The international stated that we have ILO status while working these temp jobs. Take it higher.

 

He needs to get educated. But in his defense he may be in an out of zone temp job and cant bid in the zone he is in. If not the case he should see the job security rep at the location he is at now. Jobs security know full well how the structure works