2013 Escape = Kuga

[NickF1011]

Well if the dimensions of the Vertrek are carried to the next generation Escape then it is going to be very close in size to the Edge. Not quite, but so close it makes you wonder why they would keep building both.

 

We covered this when the Vertrek was unveiled. Even with the increased dimensions the Edge was still longer, wider, and taller, significantly in at least two of those dimensions if I recall.

[2005Explorer]

We covered this when the Vertrek was unveiled. Even with the increased dimensions the Edge was still longer, wider, and taller, significantly in at least two of those dimensions if I recall.

 

Wheelbase (in) 109.8 Vertrek / 111.2 Edge = 98.7%

 



Overall length (in) 178.5 Vertrek / 184.2 Edge = 96.9%

 



Width without mirrors (in) 73.8 Vertrek / 76 Edge = 97%

 

 

Height (in) 66.1 Vertrek / 67 Edge = 98.6%

 

 

I guess I am not seeing a significant difference here unless the Vertrek has significantly less cargo or passenger room which would mean it would have poor space utilization.

[NickF1011]

Wheelbase (in) 109.8 Vertrek / 111.2 Edge = 98.7%

 



Overall length (in) 178.5 Vertrek / 184.2 Edge = 96.9%

 



Width without mirrors (in) 73.8 Vertrek / 76 Edge = 97%

 

 

Height (in) 66.1 Vertrek / 67 Edge = 98.6%

 

 

I guess I am not seeing a significant difference here unless the Vertrek has significantly less cargo or passenger room which would mean it would have poor space utilization.

 

If you don't think over 2 inches wider and 6 inches longer isn't significant in the world of automobiles, I can't help you.

[2005Explorer]

If you don't think over 2 inches wider and 6 inches longer isn't significant in the world of automobiles, I can't help you.

 

Ford says the T6 Ranger is too close in size to the F-150 to make a business case and these 2 are a LOT closer so what's the difference? Just asking.

[NickF1011]

Ford says the T6 Ranger is too close in size to the F-150 to make a business case and these 2 are a LOT closer so what's the difference? Just asking.

 

I don't think Ford has definitively said one way or the other exactly why T6 isn't being sold here. T6 riding on its own platform is certainly a big part (likely biggest part) of the problem. The situations are simply not comparable.

 

On paper, the Focus and Fusion aren't too far apart either. They are clearly, however, sitting side by side, very different sized vehicles, no?

 

Focus:

Wheelbase - 104.3"

Width - 71.8"

Height - 57.8"

Length - 178.5"

 

Fusion:

Wheelbase - 107.4" (+2.9")

Width - 72.2" (+0.4")

Height - 56.9" (-0.7")

Length - 190.6" (+12.1")

Edited August 3, 2011 by NickF1011

[2005Explorer]

I find it funny that the people who really like the direction Ford is taking the Escape with the Vertrek design are people who wouldn't consider buying a compact SUV in the first place. If you read through the thread the people with the most complaints about the design are current Escape owners. The people who love the design are people who wouldn't consider a compact SUV in the first place.

 

For the millionth time I agree that the Escape is getting long in the tooth and needs replacement, but making it look like every other crossover on the market isn't going to make it stand out. I'm also doubtful where it is headed on capability and utility because looking at the Vertrek it does look like style and looks (whether you like it or not) is going to be the focus of this vehicle, not utility and capability. We shall see. I'm done with this thread until they show it and then we can debate how good or bad it will be.

:shades:

Edited August 3, 2011 by 2005Explorer

[NickF1011]

I find it funny that the people who really like the direction Ford is taking the Escape with the Vertrek design are people who wouldn't consider buying a compact SUV in the first place. If you read through the thread the people with the most complaints about the design are current Escape owners. The people who love the design are people who wouldn't consider a compact SUV in the first place.

 

For the millionth time I agree that the Escape is getting long in the tooth and needs replacement, but making it look like every other crossover on the market isn't going to make it stand out. I'm also doubtful where it is headed on capability and utility because looking at the Vertrek it does look like style and looks (whether you like it or not) is going to be the focus of this vehicle, not utility and capability. We shall see. I'm done with this thread until they show it and then we can debate how good or bad it will be.

:shades:

 

Here's a question for you which I already posed: What percentage of the market does the Escape currently own? Now what percentage of the market is made up of vehicles that "look like every other crossover on the market"? The second is obviously far larger. Now, starting with a clean sheet of paper to attack the market, which do you emulate?

 

And really, the only reason I didn't seriously consider the Escape was its size. If it was a bit larger (which the new Escape might be...or might not be...we'll have to wait and see), I'd take a closer look. I'd take a much closer look if it looked more like the Vertrek than I would if it looked like the current Escape too. :shrug:

Edited August 3, 2011 by NickF1011

[2005Explorer]

Here's a question for you which I already posed: What percentage of the market does the Escape currently own? Now what percentage of the market is made up of vehicles that "look like every other crossover on the market"? The second is obviously far larger. Now, starting with a clean sheet of paper to attack the market, which do you emulate?

 

And really, the only reason I didn't seriously consider the Escape was its size. If it was a bit larger (which the new Escape might be...or might not be...we'll have to wait and see), I'd take a closer look. I'd take a much closer look if it looked more like the Vertrek than I would if it looked like the current Escape too. :shrug:

 

Your right it is safest to copy what others are doing. Making a look-alike vehicle isn't bold, but it is a safe bet. Ford learned that lesson with the poor sales of the more radical Flex and MKT compared to the more mainstream Explorer. The only thing now is when your vehicle looks exactly like the rest then there better be something great about it that makes it stand out especially if they want to add a pricing premium compared to it's competition.

[akirby]

What percentage of the market does the Escape currently own? Now what percentage of the market is made up of vehicles that "look like every other crossover on the market"? The second is obviously far larger. Now, starting with a clean sheet of paper to attack the market, which do you emulate?

 

^^^ THIS ^^^^

 

Why would you expect CURRENT Escape owners to like a totally different style? If they did then they wouldn't be driving an Escape they'd be driving a CR-V or RAV4 already.

 

Ford wants to modernize the styling just like they did on the Explorer. Ford thinks it will sell more and/or make more money off of the new style GLOBALLY and I trust their market research more than yours.

 

We actually considered buying an escape for our daughter but ended up with a 2012 focus instead based on price and fuel mileage mostly.

[2005Explorer]

^^^ THIS ^^^^

 

Why would you expect CURRENT Escape owners to like a totally different style? If they did then they wouldn't be driving an Escape they'd be driving a CR-V or RAV4 already.

 

Ford wants to modernize the styling just like they did on the Explorer. Ford thinks it will sell more and/or make more money off of the new style GLOBALLY and I trust their market research more than yours.

 

We actually considered buying an escape for our daughter but ended up with a 2012 focus instead based on price and fuel mileage mostly.

 

Would you buy an Escape for yourself if it was the new design? Probably not. Another person who thinks they know what everyone else wants. And you keep going on about GLOBALLY this and that. Here is a question for you since you seem to be so smart about all the internal facts and figures of Ford Motor Company. What market is BY FAR their biggest and most important market? Is it Europe? China? What market means no Ford Motor Company if it was gone tomorrow. If I was a company I would surely be listening to what that market had to say because without North America the next Escape GLOBAL or not will fail if North American compact SUV buyers don't like it.

[akirby]

Would you buy an Escape for yourself if it was the new design? Probably not.

 

I would be much more likely to buy a new one than the current one based on what I've seen of the concept.

 

Another person who thinks they know what everyone else wants.

 

Now that's funny right there. You're the one who says everyone wants the current Escape not the new one.

 

And you keep going on about GLOBALLY this and that. Here is a question for you since you seem to be so smart about all the internal facts and figures of Ford Motor Company. What market is BY FAR their biggest and most important market? Is it Europe? China? What market means no Ford Motor Company if it was gone tomorrow. If I was a company I would surely be listening to what that market had to say because without North America the next Escape GLOBAL or not will fail if North American compact SUV buyers don't like it.

 

This isn't about the entire market - it's only about the Escape and Kuga. Right now they're on 2 separate platforms. The new one will serve both vehicles and cut global expenses dramatically.

 

Let's say sales of both vehicles stay the same with the same ATPs and the same profit level. Which do you think makes more money - one platform or two?

[sullynd]

Here's a question for you which I already posed: What percentage of the market does the Escape currently own? Now what percentage of the market is made up of vehicles that "look like every other crossover on the market"? The second is obviously far larger. Now, starting with a clean sheet of paper to attack the market, which do you emulate?

 

So the F150 should emulate the rest of the full size truck market. The Edge should emulate the rest of the midsize CUV market. If you do not have 51% of the market, you should change?

 

Ford sold 24k Escapes in July. The closest CUV is the yet somewhat trucky (At least moreso than the CRV) Equinox at 17k. The CRV, which Ford should emulate, sold 14k.

[DieHardFordman]

I own a Ford Explorer and I bought a new 2011 Escape because I think it looks like the little brother to my beautiful "boxy" Explorer. (New Job, longer drive, needed higher gas mileage)

I traded in a car that only had 70.000 miles on it to get the Escape before Ford ruins it's rugged good looks for that Gay looking restyle.

I like everything about it and I think Ford should have continued to refine it , maybe rear disc brakes !

What if VW had after a few years had listened to some idiot say the VW Bug is getting long in the tooth after a few years, they would have sure lost out on a lot of sales !

The redesign of the bug sure flopped !

I just wish Ford would rename the Escape redesign and call it something else because it is not going to be an Escape , maybe call it the Edsel II ?

 

My 2011 :

 

 

 

 

[DieHardFordman]

Edited for content.

Edited September 20, 2011 by NickF1011

[SydneyRoo]

^^^ super classy.

 

Just my 2 cents,

 

I'd trade my new Focus Ti in instantly if I could have the new Escape/Vertrek with a diesel

Edited August 6, 2011 by SydneyRoo

[2005Explorer]

^^^ super classy.

 

Just my 2 cents,

 

I'd trade my new Focus Ti in instantly if I could have the new Escape/Vertrek with a diesel

 

I can understand why the new Escape would be attractive to a Focus driver because really that's all it is... A wagon version of the Focus. Now that's not a bad thing, but for those of us who would rather have a little Explorer instead of a larger Focus it's not as attractive. I know it's not about what I want or what any other customer wants, but I really think taking the toughness out of the Escape even if it is mainly styling related is a mistake.

[SydneyRoo]

I can understand why the new Escape would be attractive to a Focus driver because really that's all it is... A wagon version of the Focus. Now that's not a bad thing, but for those of us who would rather have a little Explorer instead of a larger Focus it's not as attractive. I know it's not about what I want or what any other customer wants, but I really think taking the toughness out of the Escape even if it is mainly styling related is a mistake.

 

I think that's probably the right sentiment.

I'm the kind of guy who's wanted to get in a small SUV/CUV or something for a few years, it's always nice to drive something bigger for sure... But I'm turned off by the crappy fuel mileage they get. I'm picky, 35 mpg is the absolute minimum I'd tolerate day-to-day lol..

Maybe they want old Escape buyers to move up to the new Explorer, and Focus/Fusion drivers to move up to the upcoming Escape. I'm sure there's some master plan somewhere.

[NickF1011]

So the F150 should emulate the rest of the full size truck market. The Edge should emulate the rest of the midsize CUV market. If you do not have 51% of the market, you should change?

 

Ford sold 24k Escapes in July. The closest CUV is the yet somewhat trucky (At least moreso than the CRV) Equinox at 17k. The CRV, which Ford should emulate, sold 14k.

 

 

The F-150 is already very similar to the Silverado, Ram, and Sierra. Very poor comparison. Good attempt though.

 

And the Equinox is trucky?

 

Face it. The ONLY thing trucky about the Escape is its appearance. Its capabilities are likely going to be NO better than its replacement.

[akirby]

The F-150 is already very similar to the Silverado, Ram, and Sierra. Very poor comparison. Good attempt though.

 

Ford has done several fairly radical makeovers on the F150. Just compare a 2003 model with a 2011 model. Change can be good if the new product is well executed.

[sullynd]

Face it. The ONLY thing trucky about the Escape is its appearance. Its capabilities are likely going to be NO better than its replacement.

 

I didn't claim the Escape performs truck like, or that the Verscape's capabilities will be less than the current Escapes (Though I do say towing is yet to be seen - whether due to actual capabilities or simple marketing preferences). Who cares what the capabilities are of a vehicle, if you can't stand the appearance of it?

 

The Aztek was supposed to be a very functional vehicle.

[NickF1011]

I didn't claim the Escape performs truck like, or that the Verscape's capabilities will be less than the current Escapes (Though I do say towing is yet to be seen - whether due to actual capabilities or simple marketing preferences). Who cares what the capabilities are of a vehicle, if you can't stand the appearance of it?

 

Then don't buy one. :shrug: The more curvy car-like vehicles seem to be the preference of most of the market though, so I suspect it will be received very well by most of the market. Remember: former/current Escape owners (as I pointed out) are not most of the market.

 

The Aztek was supposed to be a very functional vehicle.

 

A bit extreme of a comparison. I don't hear anyone compariing the CRV, RAV4, etc to the Aztek in terms of appearance. Of course, I'm sure you will now just to prove me wrong. :rolleyes:

[2005Explorer]

Remember: former/current Escape owners (as I pointed out) are not most of the market.

 

So Ford has been selling over 20,000+ Escapes a month and they don't care about retaining those customers? That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, unless you honestly think all of those RAV4 and CRV customers are going to come running to Ford the minute the new Escape launches. Offering a copy of something that is already on the market doesn't always mean you are going to steal a majority of the competitors customers.

[akirby]

So Ford has been selling over 20,000+ Escapes a month and they don't care about retaining those customers? That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, unless you honestly think all of those RAV4 and CRV customers are going to come running to Ford the minute the new Escape launches. Offering a copy of something that is already on the market doesn't always mean you are going to steal a majority of the competitors customers.

 

I'd be willing to bet at least 8 out of 10 current Escape owners like the new design and the other 20% can easily be made up in new conquest sales from those who would have previously considered only an import.

[NickF1011]

So Ford has been selling over 20,000+ Escapes a month and they don't care about retaining those customers? That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, unless you honestly think all of those RAV4 and CRV customers are going to come running to Ford the minute the new Escape launches. Offering a copy of something that is already on the market doesn't always mean you are going to steal a majority of the competitors customers.

 

No, what I'm saying is that most of the Escape's current customers didn't buy them because they looked like little Explorers. They bought them because they offered good features and good capabilities at a particular price point and because they trusted the Ford brand -- something that the redesigned Escape can certainly be capable of accomplishing also. Will they lose a few people who bought them because they looked like boxy little Explorers? Oh sure. But will they also gain some converts who didn't buy them because they looked like boxy little Explorers? Again, sure.

 

It is entirely premature to say that the vehicle is going to lose its current customers simply because it is changing its appearance.

[2005Explorer]

I'd be willing to bet at least 8 out of 10 current Escape owners like the new design and the other 20% can easily be made up in new conquest sales from those who would have previously considered only an import.

 

Where is your research to back that up? The poll on here isn't very scientific however it is at a 60-40 split right now. If you lose 40% of your loyal customers you are going to need a LOT of conquest sales to try and make that margin up. I don't think anyone here is debating the need for the Escape to be redesigned, however they are taking a vehicle that has always stood out from it's competition as more of an SUV (even Ford classifies it as that) and turning into something that is available from just about every manufacturer. Then as we have been told Ford expects to charge much more for this vehicle, however there is little to make it stand out from it's competitors that are likely to cost less? That is a disaster waiting to happen. Don't even try to compare this to the new Focus. The new Focus looks different, offers unique body styles and is class leading compared to it's competition. The competition in the small crossover market is a lot tougher and making a copy of that competition isn't going to get you noticed, especially if you are offering a more expensive copy.