aneekr Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Why would it drop in reliability? http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2011029 The other U.S. market J.D. Power quality survey, IQS, showed an uptick in customer reported problems among new/redesigned vehicles in 2011: Maybe in 2012 and beyond the trend will reverse and new/redesigned vehicles will eventually achieve parity with carrover/freshened vehicles. But the concern about a drop in quality ratings for the new Fusion/Mondeo seems legitimate based on the latest IQS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Why do you feel it is necessary to consider it a "negative" to use a plant whose workers are represented by the UAW? Labor costs are lower in Mexico. That's not being negative that is just stating a fact. I'm thinking along the same lines as him though. the focus is a pretty good example of new platform + new equipment + new techniques = initial issues. hopefully the lessons learned from the focus can be applied to the fusion and escape. and no that has nothing to do with american or mexican workers. you would face the same learning curve in both countries. welcome back pioneer. In comparison the Fusion launch back in 2006 was almost perfect. How did Ford go from doing an almost perfect launch of a new platform in a few plant to what is going on with the Focus right now? That doesn't make sense to me. Edited October 8, 2011 by 2005Explorer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 In comparison the Fusion launch back in 2006 was almost perfect. How did Ford go from doing an almost perfect launch of a new platform in a few plant to what is going on with the Focus right now? That doesn't make sense to me. Demand for the Focus is much greater, the Fusion Supplier network relied heavily on Mazda Supplier network, The focus Is all new, all new plant, all new Suppliers. The fusion was is stretched mazda6, the Focus is all new product. there are a ton of differences between the two products. I did a Walk around on my New focus and its perfect, Well done MAP. I can't wait to pick it up, hopefully next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vision street wear Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 All new vehicle, new plant, new equipment, new workforce, capacity increase for suppliers, etc makes for the most difficult launch. It is due to system interactions, not a single element. That does not mean the Fusion will suffer in quality, just that it makes for a more difficult launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 All new vehicle, new plant, new equipment, new workforce, capacity increase for suppliers, etc makes for the most difficult launch. It is due to system interactions, not a single element. That does not mean the Fusion will suffer in quality, just that it makes for a more difficult launch. the Fusion like the Escape will leverage the supplier network established for the Focus, their launches should be much smoother than the Focus, because most of the process issues were resolved on the focus. never forget how close EUCD and C1 are to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Focus shortages may not be all due to production and supplier issues. Right now on cars.com, there's about 15,700 Focus ready for sale. Could it be that Ford is building slightly wrong product mix with models or body styles, creating shortages of preferred types? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vision street wear Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 the Fusion like the Escape will leverage the supplier network established for the Focus, their launches should be much smoother than the Focus, because most of the process issues were resolved on the focus. never forget how close EUCD and C1 are to each other. I agree on the supply base. Often the general public and even the internal Ford engineers wants to blame the workforce for quality issues. Granted you will always have a small percentage, both hourly and salary, that just don't care and create minor issues. But from my experience when you analyze the issue without being emotional invested and jumping to conclusions the vast majority of the time it is some kind of process issue. I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying, just trying to clarify what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I wasn't honestly, in fact that branding in generally placed more on Mexicans, and they are picked on for that. But if you believe I did, and it makes you feel better, thats ok by me You were never worried about the next Fusion's quality until it was revealed that it was going to be built at AAI. It's not what I believe, it's what I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 over 150,000 of the monthly 180,000 odd vehicles delivered by Ford come from UAW and CAW plants, there is no way that the quality of any of Ford's products is in question, they are all good. UAW, CAW and Mexican workers are to be commended for their efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Focus shortages may not be all due to production and supplier issues. Right now on cars.com, there's about 15,700 Focus ready for sale. Could it be that Ford is building slightly wrong product mix with models or body styles, creating shortages of preferred types? My bet is that in the last days of the month, some of the full production Focuses were delivered, but its was too late to affect the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggoodin Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Often the general public and even the internal Ford engineers wants to blame the workforce for quality issues. Granted you will always have a small percentage, both hourly and salary, that just don't care and create minor issues. I doubt that anyone is creating issues. My concern is how engaged these people are. They might be doing things right and still be wrong because they aren't looking to improve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Focus shortages may not be all due to production and supplier issues. Right now on cars.com, there's about 15,700 Focus ready for sale. Could it be that Ford is building slightly wrong product mix with models or body styles, creating shortages of preferred types? that is not alot of cars. The Cruze is listed at 28,000. the numbers Don't look right, Its not counting some cars transit, I think. ALSO ford had 0 incentives on the car until a few days ago, the interest rates were up to 8.9% now they are 4.9% for 72months as low as 0% for 36 months plus $500 cash rebate. look for the Focus to regain it's sales momentum, and ford to do alot more advertising to promote the car as the inventory get better. with a 3rd shift next year we should not have any problem meet buyer demand, next summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 that is not alot of cars. The Cruze is listed at 28,000. the numbers Don't look right, Its not counting some cars transit, I think. ALSO ford had 0 incentives on the car until a few days ago, the interest rates were up to 8.9% now they are 4.9% for 72months as low as 0% for 36 months plus $500 cash rebate. look for the Focus to regain it's sales momentum, and ford to do alot more advertising to promote the car as the inventory get better. with a 3rd shift next year we should not have any problem meet buyer demand, next summer. The way the economy is these days it would be silly to think that Ford won't have to offer some incentives to move these off the lots. I heard so many people say that the car would be so good no incentives would be needed and they would just fly off the lots, but people are looking for a good deal and are going to shop around. Incentives will come if they want to keep the plant busy on 3 shifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 The way the economy is these days it would be silly to think that Ford won't have to offer some incentives to move these off the lots. I heard so many people say that the car would be so good no incentives would be needed and they would just fly off the lots, but people are looking for a good deal and are going to shop around. Incentives will come if they want to keep the plant busy on 3 shifts. There's some interesting tactics going on with compacts, they're being well appointed and options grouped into packages that suit most buyer trends. This would suggest that people are prepared to pay for higher series or better speced cars, ie higher average transaction prices compared to just a few years back. The game has changed a lot and while incentives are still a valuable tool, it's better to offer desirable cars in the first place than mediocre vehicles enhanced with strong incentives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 The way the economy is these days it would be silly to think that Ford won't have to offer some incentives to move these off the lots. I heard so many people say that the car would be so good no incentives would be needed and they would just fly off the lots, but people are looking for a good deal and are going to shop around. Incentives will come if they want to keep the plant busy on 3 shifts. Rest assured that the first year fit and finish factory glitches will be fixed during 2nd MY on the Focus and incentives are not far behind. Already Ford is running special lease deals on the 2012 Explorer in local advertising for 27 months. I would bet Ford will start running incentives on Focus starting in December of this year. At the very least holicay bonus cash. IMO, Focus will take over the Ford car sales crown when new Fusions start shipping. No incentives and higher sticker prices on 2013 Fusion and healthy inventory levels on Focus and incentives. There is a reason the Escape sells so well for Ford, and it's not because it's the most modern vehicle in segment. Customers are looking for value for their buck. Fusion and Escape have it now. Explorer and Focus will have it in another year with new Escape and Fusion still ramping up production and no incentives. Also, compact and mid sized lines are starting to get very blurry. Current Drives: 2002 Matador Red Ford Taurus SES Sport 2001 Orient Red Metallic Boxster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Rest assured that the first year fit and finish factory glitches will be fixed during 2nd MY on the Focus and incentives are not far behind. Already Ford is running special lease deals on the 2012 Explorer in local advertising for 27 months. I would bet Ford will start running incentives on Focus starting in December of this year. At the very least holicay bonus cash. IMO, Focus will take over the Ford car sales crown when new Fusions start shipping. No incentives and higher sticker prices on 2013 Fusion and healthy inventory levels on Focus and incentives. There is a reason the Escape sells so well for Ford, and it's not because it's the most modern vehicle in segment. Customers are looking for value for their buck. Fusion and Escape have it now. Explorer and Focus will have it in another year with new Escape and Fusion still ramping up production and no incentives. Also, compact and mid sized lines are starting to get very blurry. Current Drives: 2002 Matador Red Ford Taurus SES Sport 2001 Orient Red Metallic Boxster Incentives will come and that doesn't mean it is a bad vehicle it is just how it is. Compacts have changed and some people are willing to pay more for a better compact, however compacts still do target the lower to mid middle class and that group is getting stretched pretty thin during the recession that never seems to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 LS Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 There's some interesting tactics going on with compacts, they're being well appointed and options grouped into packages that suit most buyer trends. This would suggest that people are prepared to pay for higher series or better speced cars, ie higher average transaction prices compared to just a few years back. The game has changed a lot and while incentives are still a valuable tool, it's better to offer desirable cars in the first place than mediocre vehicles enhanced with strong incentives... The key to Ford incentive game (for all new products, i.e. Explorer, Focus etc.) is you may not need it to sell what you built, but you can't sell what you want to build without it. The art to the game is to find the sweet spot (what and how much incentives) that maximizes profitability without damaging your reputation, in terms of product perception, resale value, all the way to company image/reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Also the in house competition for the focus is now the Fusion. remember last year when the Focus was priced less than the Fiesta, the same thing is happening to the Focus right now. some of those 2011 fusions are Sitting at price point lower than the Focus right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Also the in house competition for the focus is now the Fusion. remember last year when the Focus was priced less than the Fiesta, the same thing is happening to the Focus right now. some of those 2011 fusions are Sitting at price point lower than the Focus right now. One of the things that killed the Contour back in the 90's was the fact that a person could buy a Taurus for not much more money. Now I believe that once the Fusion is re-designed it will also be moved further up-market so that should open up a larger window for the Focus. It would be interesting to know how many people drive in for a Focus and drive out with a Fusion right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 One of the things that killed the Contour back in the 90's was the fact that a person could buy a Taurus for not much more money. Now I believe that once the Fusion is re-designed it will also be moved further up-market so that should open up a larger window for the Focus. It would be interesting to know how many people drive in for a Focus and drive out with a Fusion right now. Can't push it too far up though. We don't want another situation in which the Ford is too close to the Lincoln (see Taurus/MKS). And some overlap under the same marque is unavoidable and therefore acceptable. Happens all the time within luxury brands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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