cal50 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 After hopefully reading and thinking about available information how do plan on voting? If "Nay" what is the biggest single negative aspect of the proposal? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFA Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 After hopefully reading and thinking about available information how do plan on voting? If "Nay" what is the biggest single negative aspect of the proposal? Since this is a personal vote, it has personal aspects to the choice... I'm at Rawsonville. There are no NEW product committments coming to us. What they mention has already been in motion. Nothing new and what is in motion isn't much for jobs. Secondly, it would be our "fixed" profit share. The company does not want "fixed" costs on us, like raises and cola, but it's ok to say that too much profit and they cannot "share" with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBodette68 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 After hopefully reading and thinking about available information how do plan on voting? If "Nay" what is the biggest single negative aspect of the proposal? COLA. no cola no contract. VOTE NO !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 If "Nay" what is the biggest single negative aspect of the proposal? Profit sharing isn't based on pay and hours worked anymore. Not to mention the fact that Woodhaven has no product commitments after the current F-150/Expedition, and they are closing Walton Hills stamping just to build an integrated stamping plant for the Transit in KCAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Profit sharing isn't based on pay and hours worked anymore. Not to mention the fact that Woodhaven has no product commitments after the current F-150/Expedition, and they are closing Walton Hills stamping just to build an integrated stamping plant for the Transit in KCAP. And true brotherhood would not vote yes, because a brother's plant is closing. This is where solidarity means more than lip service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanginonWHSP Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 And true brotherhood would not vote yes, because a brother's plant is closing. This is where solidarity means more than lip service. AMEN BROTHER!!!!!... from a sister...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe898 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Since this is a personal vote, it has personal aspects to the choice... I'm at Rawsonville. There are no NEW product committments coming to us. What they mention has already been in motion. Nothing new and what is in motion isn't much for jobs. Secondly, it would be our "fixed" profit share. The company does not want "fixed" costs on us, like raises and cola, but it's ok to say that too much profit and they cannot "share" with us. YOU voted for joel so you will have to live with his negotiating skills until he retires or until you are ilo ed and sent to wayne to finish your ford career ! they will probably be puttin on a c crew after saline figures out how to make enough dashes to support demand. good luck with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Since this is a personal vote, it has personal aspects to the choice... I'm at Rawsonville. There are no NEW product committments coming to us. What they mention has already been in motion. Nothing new and what is in motion isn't much for jobs. Secondly, it would be our "fixed" profit share. The company does not want "fixed" costs on us, like raises and cola, but it's ok to say that too much profit and they cannot "share" with us. :reading: Where do you read that there is fixed profit sharing??? We are not capped for profit sharing! The product you are getting should actually go into a plant like Sharonville, not Rawsonville. So maybe nothing new, but it really doesn't make sense to make it in Rawsonville anyway!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 And true brotherhood would not vote yes, because a brother's plant is closing. This is where solidarity means more than lip service. As long as the work stays within Ford Motor Company why would there not be solidarity in that?? It is not going to the outside and with shipping cost make perfect sense. Sorry for those working at Walton Hills or any Location. At least the work isn't leaving and Ford jobs will still remain. That should be the real issue, do we have jobs in other places to employee this decision by Ford. Keep our brothers and sisters working is really key! Hang in there guys at Walton Hills and TCAP. You will have to make some tough decisions soon, don't wait till the last minute. I know a lot of people who have and now they are giving up their home or paying dual house notes.. Bad situation and sorry to hear, but we should be thankful there are 5000 real jobs tied to this agreement and open product commitments. With the reduction of product lines and integration of facilities because of the market changing and economic uncertainty this is a good agreement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe B Gone Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 As long as the work stays within Ford Motor Company why would there not be solidarity in that?? It is not going to the outside and with shipping cost make perfect sense. Sorry for those working at Walton Hills or any Location. At least the work isn't leaving and Ford jobs will still remain. That should be the real issue, do we have jobs in other places to employee this decision by Ford. Keep our brothers and sisters working is really key! Hang in there guys at Walton Hills and TCAP. You will have to make some tough decisions soon, don't wait till the last minute. I know a lot of people who have and now they are giving up their home or paying dual house notes.. Bad situation and sorry to hear, but we should be thankful there are 5000 real jobs tied to this agreement and open product commitments. With the reduction of product lines and integration of facilities because of the market changing and economic uncertainty this is a good agreement. All Bullshit aside and as much as I hate to say this I agree with Jody on this one to a certain extent as I will explain. First and foremost, we have just went through the toughest economic time in most of our lives and not one of us ever did not get paid every week ( or we had the choice to get paid, some rolled the dice and got stung) What I'm trying to say we all had a steady stream of income coming in whether we were working, or on layoff, or on a TLO. (some people that chose to go on sub did get stung and ran out of weeks but that was by there own choice, they could of worked production and continued to get paid but they made that decision) Is this agreement great NO, is this agreement shitty No, folks you have to understand that if a contract book is 2 inches thick one inch is in our favor and the other inch is in the companies favor, that's true collective bargaining. worst part is we see no compounding raise for 12 years now, instead we get lump sums and tweaked profit sharing. Health care was a victory for us, if you ever really needed to use it for a serious matter you would thank God every day that you have such good care that you can take anywhere in the USA as long as you get a referral (I have blue care network of Michigan and i was able to take loved ones to the Cleveland clinic, and mayo clinic for only a 25 co-pay. The care she received saved her life when the other hospital sent her home to hospice) Thank you bargainers for keeping and improving our health care. Look at the deal from the outside looking in and you will join me in voting Yes. One more issue that needs to be addressed while we have the attention of all the cheerleaders (IUAW reps) we need to get our house in order on Jefferson Ave. I was going over the number of reps and the amount of money being used out of our strike fund to cover day to day operations. The current rate of money hemorrhaging is unsustainable at the current rate. The amount of reps in the big 3 is WAY out of proportion compared to other areas within the organization for example farm implements, healthcare workers, aerospace and yes we have large numbers of active workers in these areas with minimal service reps. Make the hard choice and do the right thing, right size the force within the organization or you will be the next big thing to go bankrupt and don't count on the government to bail you out. sorry in advance of the far from perfect grammar but I've been up 42 hours strait taking care of loved ones and working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailfndr Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 :reading: Where do you read that there is fixed profit sharing??? We are not capped for profit sharing! The product you are getting should actually go into a plant like Sharonville, not Rawsonville. So maybe nothing new, but it really doesn't make sense to make it in Rawsonville anyway!! capped at 12K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The more I look at it, the more I think it does not go far enough. Having been dragged out so long I was expecting to see a lot better contract. Good for AAI for the new product, but I did not expect to see plant closings negotiated in a contract, usually they are announced first. This is the first time that I remember that happening. This contract reminds me more of the Octomods the more I read it. Many of these product commitments were already made- we were expecting a third shift at MAP and CAP, the next-gen F-Series at DTP and KCAP, new transmissions at Livonia and Sterling. I was hoping to see OHAP get more substantial, high-volume product commitment, the new Ranger to be built in the US to counter midsize trucks GM and Chrysler are commiting themselves to, US production of the Transit Connect, possible assembly of B-body vehichles in the US, and another high-volume engine line at Romeo to replace the 4.6. Sorry Mr. King, I think you can do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) I just read the contract summary .....its a "meh" type reaction. For those locations that got major investment and product commitment congratulations. For everyone else its a mixed bag of luke warm items with nothing really to get excited about. The real question is if voted down will we get the same thing re-packaged or even less? I cant say if voted down its worth striking over but its still a weak proposal overall IMHO. The 10% of profit sharing tossed into VEBA is a smooth move. I thought that was suppose to be self sufficient for a while longer. I guess not. PPH / Improved Preferential Placement Hierarchy is improved & streamlined? From what to what? More appointed jobs and added training...oh boy. The court of public opinion is if its was voted down autoworkers would be viewed lower than we currently are (if possible). A several thousand dollar signing bonus, adding jobs and the sort listed on the front page of the paper will not get any support outside our factory walls. As much as I think its a very weak contract it will likely pass. It make you wonder if we should have taken an auto bail out after all. I do not see the things everyone gave up returned and added to. Edited October 5, 2011 by cal50 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenger Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 As long as the work stays within Ford Motor Company why would there not be solidarity in that?? It is not going to the outside and with shipping cost make perfect sense. Sorry for those working at Walton Hills or any Location. At least the work isn't leaving and Ford jobs will still remain. That should be the real issue, do we have jobs in other places to employee this decision by Ford. Keep our brothers and sisters working is really key! Hang in there guys at Walton Hills and TCAP. You will have to make some tough decisions soon, don't wait till the last minute. I know a lot of people who have and now they are giving up their home or paying dual house notes.. Bad situation and sorry to hear, but we should be thankful there are 5000 real jobs tied to this agreement and open product commitments. With the reduction of product lines and integration of facilities because of the market changing and economic uncertainty this is a good agreement. We are adding 12000 jobs and 5000 new ones. This is great job security. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
econolineman Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 And true brotherhood would not vote yes, because a brother's plant is closing. This is where solidarity means more than lip service. There were plenty of yes votes around when my original plant closed...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFA Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 YOU voted for joel so you will have to live with his negotiating skills until he retires or until you are ilo ed and sent to wayne to finish your ford career ! they will probably be puttin on a c crew after saline figures out how to make enough dashes to support demand. good luck with that! WRONG!! "I" have NEVER voted for Joel in my 17 years here....NEVER. Matter of fact, most people say they didn't either. "I" never have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) There were plenty of yes votes around when my original plant closed...... Page 163C of the 2007 CBA changes got a lot of votes as well. Except at those six plants that were closed/idled. That little Gem was not highlight worthy. In fact, it was not even discussed widely. "I got mine! Yippee!!!!!!" Those are the "yes" votes that hurt the most. I guess it was just a dream the the entire membership would stand toe-to-toe to the IUAW and the Company and say "NO! We demand better for our brothers!" 20071106 Ford_Contract_83_Pages(163C).pdf Edited October 5, 2011 by FiredMotorCompany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFA Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 :reading: Where do you read that there is fixed profit sharing??? We are not capped for profit sharing! The product you are getting should actually go into a plant like Sharonville, not Rawsonville. So maybe nothing new, but it really doesn't make sense to make it in Rawsonville anyway!! Page 519 of agreement, under definitions...top of page. Not to exceed $12,000. Why should Sharonville get the products?? Can they be filled with 100% tier 2? Didn't think so. No reason why this plant shouldn't be filled up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 COLA. no cola no contract. VOTE NO !! This is the new "normal". Ain't no way COLA is ever coming back, and if you want to piss off customers, other union members and non union members alike, keep bitching that you want COLA back. Ford, and the IUAW rank-and-file, built up a shit load of good will not taking any Federal bailout money like GM & Chrysler, Ford's bondholders didn't get shafted in favor of any Ford IUAW members or Ford VEBA, and all you "no" voting motherfuckers want to piss -and-moan? Want to turn everyone against us? Where's the fucking car sales going to come from then? Think it's the sales-and-marketing people's fucking job to pull a Houdini and magically make people NOT consider how much they hate most of us? Ain't gonna happen. I'm voting "yes". This is better than going downhill. This supports our Tier Two brothers and sisters. This helps bring back some outsourced jobs back to our shores. I'm voting "yes". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) While there will always be plenty of reasons to vote no, so far going through the contract i see the good out weighing the bad in this agreement. I looked at 3 main issues coming into this years contract 1. product commitments to ensure we keep jobs -2011- exceeded expectations 2. entry level increases -2011- small improvments but a step in the right direction 3. End tiered SUB / TAP - 2011 - failed So two out of three of my top concerns were meet, the bad that is in this tentative agreement does not outweigh the good so unless i totally have missed some stuff i will be voting yes as i did on the poll. I will add no pension increase for retirees was a huge letdown. Edited October 5, 2011 by lquidspine 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I just read the contract summary .....its a "meh" type reaction. For those locations that got major investment and product commitment congratulations. For everyone else its a mixed bag of luke warm items with nothing really to get excited about. The real question is if voted down will we get the same thing re-packaged or even less? I cant say if voted down its worth striking over but its still a weak proposal overall IMHO. The 10% of profit sharing tossed into VEBA is a smooth move. I thought that was suppose to be self sufficient for a while longer. I guess not. PPH / Improved Preferential Placement Hierarchy is improved & streamlined? From what to what? More appointed jobs and added training...oh boy. The court of public opinion is if its was voted down autoworkers would be viewed lower than we currently are (if possible). A several thousand dollar signing bonus, adding jobs and the sort listed on the front page of the paper will not get any support outside our factory walls. As much as I think its a very weak contract it will likely pass. It make you wonder if we should have taken an auto bail out after all. I do not see the things everyone gave up returned and added to. If I'm not mistaken, in the 1980's, when our Dad's generation took a bunch of concessions, it took two or three contracts to get some (but not all) returned. Considering that bringing up the wages of the Tier 2 employees was a priority that Bob King publicly stated this past summer, why it's such a surprise that happened in lieu of returning to annual raises, COLA, etc for the high seniority employees, is frankly, beyond me. The bargaining teams goal was to improve the finances of the Tier 2 employees. Objective achieved. If it's possible that the rest of the concessions be returned, it will happen in time, not in the first new contract since the GM & Chrysler C11 bankruptcies. Right now, Ford and the Ford rank-and-file, look pretty good, in the court of public opinion, for taking care of themselves without Washington's help. That kind of good will goes away if this contract is rejected, especially since the rank-and-file at General Motors already approved it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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