Carl Edwards A True Gentleman

[Bob Rosadini]

It would have been a travesty for Edwards to win championship having won so few races throughout the NASCAR year. NASCAR has to make wins count for more points next year to make championship mean something. Only in NASCAR do you get this muddled system. NASCAR is a joke and unwatchable for most part. Only racing worse is Indy car oval racing. Indy road racing is not bad at all.

 

As for Ford, I would like to see them get involved in LeMans again and join the ALMS series GT class and take on BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, and Corvette. Since Ford is supposedly turning the GT500 into an all out halo car with racing suspension and brakes, it can run it in racing series. Or the Boss Mustang that seems to have the legs needed to run with the big boys. Forget NASCAR with the stick on headlights and grille.

Agree on the GT 500 and the Boss and the "stick on headlights"--BUT- where is the max exposure? I don't think anything comes close to NASCAR

[Bob Rosadini]

A brief summary of what's wrong with motorsports---and there isn't a single formula that isn't severely messed up these days:

 

Nascar - It's WWE on wheels. Rules are arbitrary and arbitrarily changed, the formula is an antique joke, driver conduct is bad and getting worse and punishment is suspect

 

F1 - An incestuous bribery filled circus. An organization with a kind of insular corruption that only the Europeans seem to tolerate; FIFA on wheels. At least their formula is starting to make sense, but any company on the outside of this particular brand of insanity is well advised to stay outside. Even if they've powered over 300 race winners. A peculiar device which funnels money into the hands of incompetent fools, knaves, dissolute bastards and the insatiably greedy. A bomb going off in the VIP paddock of any F1 event would rid the earth of some of its most unrepentant thieves.

 

LeMans - Just like F1, but on a smaller scale. The game was rigged for diesel coincident with a major investment in the sport by two diesel powerhouses (Audi & Peugeot). You can't trust the stability of the premier formulas in this sport. If you want the formula rigged in favor of gas, get out your wallet. Or electric. Or natural gas, etc.

 

ALMS - to the extent that they're piggybacked on the ACO's rules, they're subject to the same criticisms

 

NHRA - More hidebound than Nascar. Fossil formulas content with their own slow petrification. Use a different bore spacing? Forgetaboutit. About as interesting as model rocketry.

 

IndyCar - doesn't know what it is, where it's going or what it's going to do when it gets there. Used to be great. Now it's just a joke. The race at Las Vegas is an indictment of everything that's bad about that series: Driver safety not a concern, promoter assurances taken at face value, disorganized/scatterbrained organization etc.

 

Support series - nobody cares. Not deserving of any significant investment. They're support series, for crying out loud. The ones at Nascar tracks are little more than background noise to get drunk by.

 

WRC - An odd sport for oddballs. Requires an immense amount of 'institutional knowledge' to compete. But of all the series, it's probably the sanest. Even though it's overseen by the same rotten body of institutionalized favor-seeking and privilege that oversees F1. Possibly it is less corrupt because there is less money being wasted on this formula.

So Richard-your thoughts on Soap Box Derby??

[Bob Rosadini]

reminds me, watched the Aussie V8's this weekend, AND its coming here...could be interesting watching fans migrate as its a far better spectacle than Nascar.....( well, I suppose thats an opinion, but I'll stick to it )

Agree with you on that-fun to watch-and those are in fact real stock bodies-correct?

[Bob Rosadini]

Back to the point, Edwards IS a class act regardless of what you think about NASCAR. I would bet Edwards gets as much PR as a result of his response to his loss over the next few weeks as Stewart does for his win.

 

Stewart's interview in my mind was also in a word "cheesy". It took the interviewer-forgot who it was, to bring up Edwards. Most other guys after a close race are quick to compliment their opponents effort- not Fat Boy however.

[RichardJensen]

So Richard-your thoughts on Soap Box Derby??

Too commercial. It's not about the soap boxes any more.

[FordBuyer]

Agree on the GT 500 and the Boss and the "stick on headlights"--BUT- where is the max exposure? I don't think anything comes close to NASCAR

 

You are correct about that, of course. NASCAR oval racing is very popular in U.S., but even there cracks are starting to show. More empty seats starting to show up in the stands around the country. Doesn't seem to be the same interest...too many races? I know at MIS where there are two races each pulling in about 160,000 spectators making it biggest sporting even in MI, even bigger than Big House for U of M football. Again, even there, MIS has been forced to cut ticket prices to keep attendance up, and even at that MIS really has to push hard to get the butts into seats like never before. And it looks like each year will make it harder to to fill the stands as MIS looks for other ways to use the facility. I'm hoping they have an ALMS or Grand Am race there someday again and open the infield course. In the 70's, MIS was used for Can-Am and Trans-Am racing as MIS was used like Daytona 24 hour race, course used part of high banking for top speed and infield for road course portion.

[SVT_MAN]

That will make the inevitable loss so much sweeter.

 

They've got a terrible pass defense, and A-Rodg gets sacked an awful lot for being a superstar.

 

I don't like Schwartz and I think Suh is .... exactly what Schwartz wants him to be. But I'll be smiling if Suh sacks Rodgers and then does that *incredibly* annoying wrestling belt thing.

 

Oh, and open letter to Packers fans:

 

Dear Band-wagoners, old and new:

 

Remember when it drove you nuts to hear ESPN talking about Favre all the time?

 

Your complacency in the face of excessive praise of Aaron Rodgers illustrates your hypocrisy.

 

Sincerely,

 

Someone who realizes that McCarthy is a bonehead, as you will soon enough.

 

Crikey. Have an opinion much?

 

Packers have gotten lucky in a few of their wins. I have seen them pull wins in some close games. But a lot of people forget that last year, nearly all of their losses were VERY close games. Sunday was not a very good performance for the Packers - I'm the first to admit it, but as Tony Stewart proves - a win is a win. I was happy I did not watch the circus .. I was at a wedding.

 

I will say this about Rodgers though: I would not hesitate to say that anybody who denies Rodgers' talent is delusional.

 

For the record though ... 1) I'm not a band-wagon fan 2) I never liked Favre. Period. 3) I'm a Wisconsinite, so you can't really call me bandwagon anyway.

 

I remember when Favre "retired" ... I was working at an elementary school at the time as a technical assistant. My boss told me it was "okay to cry" as she turned on the TV to watch the soap opera ... I mean, press conference ... and then she proceeded to cry. I held back laughter. I could have cared less. Favre this. Favre that. That guy was so full of himself.

 

Favre has been a drama queen for quite some time. A quarterback is only as good as his weakest link ... just look at the line that protects Rodgers. That's why he gets sacked. You can't hardly blame a guy for getting sacked if he doesn't have good protection. I honestly believe Rodgers is turning into one of the best ever ... but there are some serious chinks in the armor of the Packers. They are not invincible. I think this Lions game will be a tough test.

 

BTW: I'm from Wisconsin, and I support Matt Kenseth, even if he does drive in the automotive equivalent of WWE. And a Wisconsinite who isn't a Packer fan? There are not many around here ... and those who are, are transplanted from somewhere else.

Edited November 22, 2011 by SVT_MAN

[SVT_MAN]

I had the same thought after that previous race.

 

You guys do realize that Burton used to drive for Roush, right?

 

If NASCAR was about loyalty, why are Matt Kenseth and Carl Edwards two of the only drivers who have never driven anything but Fords? Even Jeff Gordon hasn't been loyal to Chevy the entire time. He started in a Baby Ruth Ford.

 

Jeff Burton pulling over for Stewart was probably a team order issued by some Chevy big wig I bet. They claim team orders don't exist in NASCAR ... but they do.

 

The sad part is, Jeff Burton probably lost some money in that move. Each position pays money ...

Edited November 22, 2011 by SVT_MAN

[RichardJensen]

That guy was so full of himself.

 

Yeah. This new guy is so different.

[SVT_MAN]

 

Yeah. This new guy is so different.

 

The title belt is a joke. I guess you don't get it.

 

It's also helping Ford sell pickups, I might add. When I go to games at friends' houses, all the "idiot" Packer fans are speaking positively of the Ford F150 in the commercial and think that Rodgers is hilarious. So even if you hate it, if you're a Ford stock holder, Rodgers is helping to sell vehicles in a company that you own stock in. You should be thanking the guy, whether you like him or not ... I mean the guy has a 90% + approval rating. I'm not saying that everybody is naive enough to fall for false authority herrings in commercials, but there are quite a few ...

 

As far as arrogance though, I'd say arrogance is a common denominator in football. In fact, the NFL encourages arrogance if you ask me. You're talking about a sport that penalizes guys for taking a knee in the end zone. (But running the football to your cheerleader girlfriend is cool ...)

 

 

By the way, before you start calling McCarthy a bonehead, maybe you should do some research on the guy. He's a hard working guy who became a coach by hard work and sticking to his guns. He is not a silver spoon aristocrat. Not too many people go from toll booth operator to head football coach for a major NFL team.

Edited November 22, 2011 by SVT_MAN

[blksn8k2]

You are correct about that, of course. NASCAR oval racing is very popular in U.S., but even there cracks are starting to show. More empty seats starting to show up in the stands around the country. Doesn't seem to be the same interest...too many races? I know at MIS where there are two races each pulling in about 160,000 spectators making it biggest sporting even in MI, even bigger than Big House for U of M football. Again, even there, MIS has been forced to cut ticket prices to keep attendance up, and even at that MIS really has to push hard to get the butts into seats like never before. And it looks like each year will make it harder to to fill the stands as MIS looks for other ways to use the facility. I'm hoping they have an ALMS or Grand Am race there someday again and open the infield course. In the 70's, MIS was used for Can-Am and Trans-Am racing as MIS was used like Daytona 24 hour race, course used part of high banking for top speed and infield for road course portion.

 

Did you ever consider that all that might have something to do with the current state of the economy? NASCAR is not the only sport that is having problems filling the stands. Like it or not NASCAR is still the most popular form of auto racing in this country and I don't see anything out there that has much potential to dethrown it. It also still has the most earning potential for American drivers which means that it will continue to draw some of the best talent. Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon and even Danica Patrick all started in open wheel and look where they are now. That was not by accident. For that matter, ask Juan Pablo Montoya or Marcos Ambrose why they came to NASCAR. It wasn't because they were not successful where they were.

 

While Aussie V8 Supercars do resemble their production counterparts more than NASCAR "stock" cars they are still far from "stock". The type of tracks they run on are not always as sensitive to aerodynamics as a 200 mph oval so they can tolerate a more stock appearing body although I doubt you will see many Falcons running around the Outback with a huge wing on the deck lid and a full tube frame. Unless, of course, the driver happens to be Mel Gibson.

[fou_bleu]

Agree with you on that-fun to watch-and those are in fact real stock bodies-correct?

 

They're only more related to the real cars than your NASCARs by like 1% - no panel or part apart from the badges, lights are the mirrors are factory parts. Production cars they most certainly are not. Touring cars they are only very loosely.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Aussie_Ford

[RichardJensen]

The title belt is a joke.

It's a cheap bit of jackassery, and Rodgers is every bit as full of himself as Favre ever was.

 

And anyone who lets his star quarterback get sacked 50 times in a season is *not* a good coach, regardless of where he came from.

[SVT_MAN]

It's a cheap bit of jackassery, and Rodgers is every bit as full of himself as Favre ever was.

 

And anyone who lets his star quarterback get sacked 50 times in a season is *not* a good coach, regardless of where he came from.

 

If the Packers were your team, you would not think that ... I'm sure I see things through rose colored glasses when it comes to Rodgers, much the same as you do with YOUR favorite team. So who is your favorite team, anyway? Since you're from South Dakota. The land of ... ? How is South Dakota's team doing? Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

And, yeah, Mike McCarthy just lets his quarterback get sacked. You know, the players on the field don't really determine that at all. My bad.

Edited November 22, 2011 by SVT_MAN

[RichardJensen]

If the Packers were your team, you would not think that

This doesn't deserve a response. Have a good night.

[FordBuyer]

Did you ever consider that all that might have something to do with the current state of the economy? NASCAR is not the only sport that is having problems filling the stands. Like it or not NASCAR is still the most popular form of auto racing in this country and I don't see anything out there that has much potential to dethrown it. It also still has the most earning potential for American drivers which means that it will continue to draw some of the best talent. Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon and even Danica Patrick all started in open wheel and look where they are now. That was not by accident. For that matter, ask Juan Pablo Montoya or Marcos Ambrose why they came to NASCAR. It wasn't because they were not successful where they were.

 

While Aussie V8 Supercars do resemble their production counterparts more than NASCAR "stock" cars they are still far from "stock". The type of tracks they run on are not always as sensitive to aerodynamics as a 200 mph oval so they can tolerate a more stock appearing body although I doubt you will see many Falcons running around the Outback with a huge wing on the deck lid and a full tube frame. Unless, of course, the driver happens to be Mel Gibson.

 

UH, U of M football, the Lions, Red Wings, and Tigers haven't cut ticket prices and they come to their games even more, not less. And MIS probably draws from surrounding areas that don't have NASCAR even more than others mentioned. U of M football consistently draws 115,000 fans every home game, and big games like first night game ticket prices were going above face value in some cases. It used to be that way with MIS NASCAR, but not anymore. Now it's like would you please take these tickets off my hands.

 

So again, NASCAR is still the most popular type of auto racing in America for sure, but not as popular as it used to be. Many "experts" write articles all the time about what's wrong with NASCAR and what can we do to make it better. I'mnot the only one that finds it very difficult to watch NASCAR racing and actually be interested in it with all the minor debri yellow flags, mayhem pit stopping on every yellow flag, spec racing cars, races that are way too long and should have time limits, too many races, too few points for finishing first, crash courses like Daytona that turn it into Demolition Derby, restrictor racing that makes it even more boring, nameplates like Impala and Fusion that are not even very sporty in civilian life and don't sell the car, and on and on and on.

 

The only thing that helps NASCAR is that Indy racing is even worse on oval courses at least. Indy racing is exciting on road and city circuits though. And should get more exciting with more manufacturers entering and different body kits becoming available in 2013. There is a definite road racing underground in this country that has never gone away, but has been dormant mostly since the 70's. Panoz has helped with ALMS and even NASCAR sees the light with Grand-Am. Now if we could rally around one great road racing series and include the GT class as it runs in ALMS.That would show NASCAR something.

[FordBuyer]

If the Packers were your team, you would not think that ... I'm sure I see things through rose colored glasses when it comes to Rodgers, much the same as you do with YOUR favorite team. So who is your favorite team, anyway? Since you're from South Dakota. The land of ... ? How is South Dakota's team doing? Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

And, yeah, Mike McCarthy just lets his quarterback get sacked. You know, the players on the field don't really determine that at all. My bad.

 

God, look at the postscript below Jensen's name. It shows he loves sports far more than his 2000 Sable. Don't get him started about football as we know he's god like when it comes to auto knowledge.

 

Speaking of football, I still remember like yesterday the big Thankgiving Day game in the 60's when Detroit's Fearsome Foursome (Alex Karras, Roger Brown, Darren McCord, forget the fourth one) sacked Bart Star like six times and won the game that year. Loved those great Vince Lombardi teams of Jim Taylor especially as he got all pissed off when someone tackled him. Kids in Detroit back then knew the names of Packer players probably more than the Lions. Thanksgiving game was about the only day we could beat the Packers on. Also still remember the game later in 60's when Lions had Packers beat for divisional championship, and Milt Plum threw interception near end of game instead of running the clock out and Packers went on to win. I threw my shoe at TV and Alex Karras threw his shoe at Plum's head in locker room after game. it was the LAST time Lions ever came close to winning anything. 1957 and still waiting.

[Bob Rosadini]

You are correct about that, of course. NASCAR oval racing is very popular in U.S., but even there cracks are starting to show. More empty seats starting to show up in the stands around the country. Doesn't seem to be the same interest...too many races? I know at MIS where there are two races each pulling in about 160,000 spectators making it biggest sporting even in MI, even bigger than Big House for U of M football. Again, even there, MIS has been forced to cut ticket prices to keep attendance up, and even at that MIS really has to push hard to get the butts into seats like never before. And it looks like each year will make it harder to to fill the stands as MIS looks for other ways to use the facility. I'm hoping they have an ALMS or Grand Am race there someday again and open the infield course. In the 70's, MIS was used for Can-Am and Trans-Am racing as MIS was used like Daytona 24 hour race, course used part of high banking for top speed and infield for road course portion.

I would guess the empty seats is more about the economy than anything else. Here in New England, NHIS was a sellout-and I believe seated more people than Fenway Park and Gillette Stadium combined. LOTS of empty seats this year at both races.

 

IMO, too many blue collar guys out of work or not getting the OT that paid for their tickets

[Bob Rosadini]

You guys do realize that Burton used to drive for Roush, right?

 

If NASCAR was about loyalty, why are Matt Kenseth and Carl Edwards two of the only drivers who have never driven anything but Fords? Even Jeff Gordon hasn't been loyal to Chevy the entire time. He started in a Baby Ruth Ford.

 

Jeff Burton pulling over for Stewart was probably a team order issued by some Chevy big wig I bet. They claim team orders don't exist in NASCAR ... but they do.

 

The sad part is, Jeff Burton probably lost some money in that move. Each position pays money ...

More correctly Jeff Gordon was not loyal to Ford. Was he not a "development driver"-I remember seeing him for the first time at NHIS driving the Baby Ruth Ford (Bill Davis??) and I thought---"who IS this kid-he is good" Then the big bucks csme and he was gone in a flash-so much for the guys who gave him his start.

[NLPRacing]

First thing I thought about when Keslowski did that was how Burton gave Stewart an additional point in the preceding race on the very last lap of the race. How prophetic was the reporter who wrote this article:

http://wap.yahoo.com...ntl=US&.lang=en

 

HOMESTEAD, Fla. – If Tony Stewart wins the 2011 Sprint Cup title by one point over Carl Edwards , he'll have Jeff Burton to thank.

 

 

On the final lap of last Sunday's penultimate race in the 2011 Chase for the Sprint Cup Championship, Edwards was running second, Stewart fourth. Between them was Burton. Though Stewart and Burton aren't teammates, they do share a common bond: Both drive Chevrolets. So when Stewart came up on Burton's bumper, Burton moved over, allowing Stewart to take third without a fight and gain one more point in the standings.

 

Though it might not sound like much, one point could prove the difference in the championship, and it was gained all because of loyalty

 

Burton might have helped, but that's not how Carl lost it. Carl had ten opportunities to win this chase and he lost to a guy who was able to better capitalize on the current points system. For example, Carl was in the lead before that last pit stop at Phoenix, but he was way too conservative getting in & out of the pits that he lost too much ground to Kahne. He was faster than Stewart, Burton & Kahne. Had he stayed aggressive, we wouldn't even be talking about Burton pulling over because Carl would have had like an 8 point lead heading into Homestead and he would be the Champion. There was other lost opportunities for Carl, but he trusted that a better than 5th place average finish was going to be enough and it would of been had he had at least one win.

 

Looks like Roush will concentrate on just three Cup cars next year, that should help their chances next year.

[bobbyd]

Wow...I did not know that about Burton giving Stewart the point...which eventually was the Championship. Maybe besides being Chevy buddies...Burton was a former Rousch driver before leaving the Ford Team. thank you for that info. Man, I feel for Carl. Good man. I'm having a hard time with this loss, I can't imagine how he feels. These opportunities do NOT come easily.

 

 

First thing I thought about when Keslowski did that was how Burton gave Stewart an additional point in the preceding race on the very last lap of the race. How prophetic was the reporter who wrote this article:

http://wap.yahoo.com/w/sports/home/experts/article?offset=1&urn=urn%3Anewsml%3Asports.yahoo%2Cyhoo%3A20050301%3Anascar%2Carticle%2Cjh-ford-400-edwards-stewart-loyalty-111911%3A1&.ts=1321739737&.ysid=hRwkrL2UYU_Ey6SEodCa58XB&.intl=US&.lang=en

 

HOMESTEAD, Fla. – If Tony Stewart wins the 2011 Sprint Cup title by one point over Carl Edwards , he'll have Jeff Burton to thank.

 

 

On the final lap of last Sunday's penultimate race in the 2011 Chase for the Sprint Cup Championship, Edwards was running second, Stewart fourth. Between them was Burton. Though Stewart and Burton aren't teammates, they do share a common bond: Both drive Chevrolets. So when Stewart came up on Burton's bumper, Burton moved over, allowing Stewart to take third without a fight and gain one more point in the standings.

 

Though it might not sound like much, one point could prove the difference in the championship, and it was gained all because of loyalty

[97svtgoin05gt]

Hendrick and NASCAR are bedfellows. There hasn' t been anything but a Chevy Champion in what 9 years? 8 Years? If Hendrick has a hand in it, NASCAR will somehow see that they win. Think about it. Stewart couldn't even stay in the top 10 the whole first part of the season let alone catch the Fords. Stewart himself whined about the Fords having an advantage over everyone else (read Chevy and Hendrick). Suddenly out of NOWHERE in the last 10 races, Stewart (the guy who complained about the Fords) wins 50% of the remaining races!??? No one finds this suspicious??? I sure in hell do.

 

It will be a cold day in hell before ANYTHING other than a Chevy wins a NASCAR championship. And that is the way NASCAR wants it.

[RichardJensen]

Thank you for illustrating Nascar's credibility gap.

 

Even though this scenario is pretty implausible, there's nothing other than the France family say-so to contradict allegations of fixed races, etc. There's no transparency to the Nascar processes, nor is there anything remotely resembling the owner/commissioner structure seen in professional sports.

 

And, IMO, that lack of owner peers with a commissioner & staff coupled with unregulated funding of the sport, has undermined the validity of every sanctioning body.

 

Ask yourself: Could the FOCA draft rules and administer races independent of FIA and Ecclestone? IMO, yes. It would require a change in attitude, in that the owners would have to step away from their willingness to slit each others' throats given half a chance, but arguably the fact that team owners are free to act irresponsibly is part of the problem.

 

And you can apply that same standard to every other sport. Does Nascar need the France family? No. They're utterly irrelevant. Yes, they own facilities, but you can put facilities in a blind trust and they can be ran by a piece of paper. Facility ownership is irrelevant.

 

What, seriously, have the France family done for Nascar lately that could not have been done by a staff hired by and funded by owners?

 

One of the problems I have with sanctioned racing at the highest levels is that so many thoroughly replaceable people have convinced team owners that they are indispensable. In fact, all of them are eminently superfluous. The NFL (for one) has managed to acquire gigantic broadcast TV contracts without recourse to an Ecclestone style leech. There is no reason to think that the FOCA could not do likewise.

[FordBuyer]

Hendrick and NASCAR are bedfellows. There hasn' t been anything but a Chevy Champion in what 9 years? 8 Years? If Hendrick has a hand in it, NASCAR will somehow see that they win. Think about it. Stewart couldn't even stay in the top 10 the whole first part of the season let alone catch the Fords. Stewart himself whined about the Fords having an advantage over everyone else (read Chevy and Hendrick). Suddenly out of NOWHERE in the last 10 races, Stewart (the guy who complained about the Fords) wins 50% of the remaining races!??? No one finds this suspicious??? I sure in hell do.

 

It will be a cold day in hell before ANYTHING other than a Chevy wins a NASCAR championship. And that is the way NASCAR wants it.

 

Great poin!!...it's weird how Stewart came out of nowhere and starting winning just about every race down the stretch. Chevy certainly has more teams than anyone else and dominate the grid. Maybe the Chevy teams trade info and help out the team and driver with best chance to win..this year Stewart. Fords haven't been overly numerous on grid for many years. Chevy/Pontiac has been dominate over the decades and you have to go back to Petty to see Dodge on top. Too bad Charger doesn't win since it's only nameplate that is actually a fast car on street.

[97svtgoin05gt]

Great poin!!...it's weird how Stewart came out of nowhere and starting winning just about every race down the stretch. Chevy certainly has more teams than anyone else and dominate the grid. Maybe the Chevy teams trade info and help out the team and driver with best chance to win..this year Stewart. Fords haven't been overly numerous on grid for many years. Chevy/Pontiac has been dominate over the decades and you have to go back to Petty to see Dodge on top. Too bad Charger doesn't win since it's only nameplate that is actually a fast car on street.

 

Fusion Sport is no slug but I hear what you're saying.