mettech Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Scenario: Owner buys car "H" and never has a problem with it during the 8 years of ownership. Gives car "H" to child and buys new car "F". New car "F" is overall a better car than "H", but it has three or four recalls and the transmission shifts "funny". Owner gets good service from dealership that sold him car "F" to fix the recalls..... but he still remembers that car "H" never gave him issues. Now it is time to get a new car..... I was surprised to see that it appears he will buy car "F" again.. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2011/10/13/cars-with-the-most-brand-loyal-buyers/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Scenario: Owner buys car "H" and never has a problem with it during the 8 years of ownership. Gives car "H" to child and buys new car "F". New car "F" is overall a better car than "H", but it has three or four recalls and the transmission shifts "funny". Owner gets good service from dealership that sold him car "F" to fix the recalls..... but he still remembers that car "H" never gave him issues. Now it is time to get a new car..... I was surprised to see that it appears he will buy car "F" again.. http://www.forbes.co...d-loyal-buyers/ But your thinking rationally....the issue is that people are lead to believe that Japanese makes are better and are more readily discount problems with them vs oh this is a POS Ford because this transmission doesn't act like an automatic. There is some conditioning going on there with expectations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I was surprised to see that it appears he will buy car "F" again.. http://www.forbes.co...d-loyal-buyers/ It does seem surprising at first glance. One possible explanation is that owner loyalty is influenced not only by product defects or "things gone wrong" (or the lack thereof), but also attributes that met or exceeded owner expectations, also known as "things gone right." J.D. Power's IQS measures the former, and its APEAL survey the latter. Using the 2012 Ford F-150 as an example: this truck's initial quality rating (IQS) is mediocre, but its overall performance and design rating (APEAL) is best in class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'll use myself as an example...I had a 2002 SVT Focus...was a GIANT POS....lots of recalls, clutch gone at 50K, etc, etc....I readily admit that if I didn't know any better, I'd get a different make of car. I replaced it with a 2006 Mustang GT that currently has 112k trouble free miles on it...I even did over 10K worth of damage to it in an accident, then got rear ended twice in it, but it still runs like a top and still is a solid car. My parents have had Fords since 1979 when my dad started working from them. Out of all them, 3 of them where stinkers...my SVT Focus, a 2002 Explorer (mostly because of the transmission and rear diff dying very close to one another...common problem that year) and the biggest stinker of them all...a 89 Taurus wagon that used to shit transmissions every 60K and 13 recalls on it...was a great car otherwise. All the other cars we've owned (about 15 different Fords) thats all the issues we've had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) There is some conditioning going on there with expectations According to the consumers themselves, or from some external source? Edited August 7, 2012 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 According to the consumers themselves, or from some external source? Define external source.... I'm thinking more along the lines of peer pressure....in general, ask someone, what type of car should I buy? I bet the next thing you hear is buy a Toyota (Camry/etc) or Honda (Civic/Accord), and often this is just based on hearsay, not actual ownership of the vehicle. So someone does this, has an issue with there new Toyota/Honda, but discounts it because their friends/family told them it was a good car...thus the conditioning of the owner... In more extreme way of putting it, look at Apple products...and how people treat their products. I've had a couple iPods, iPhones and a Macbook Pro, and they are decent to good products, but not the end all like people make them out to be. I've had my Macbook Pro crap out on me within a year of owning it and iPhones crap out on me...so color me not impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ford is one of the lowest rank automakers in the US, how rational do you expect people to be when they see that? We don't even understand the full extent of the problem, let alone an average consumer. How do you expect them to rationalize the scope of the problem? I'm just asking. You overestimate how much the AVERAGE car buyer knows or cares about these things. Most buyers go by looks and/or performance and/or what their peers have. They don't read automotive websites and all they know about the vehicles are what they see on TV or at the dealer or on the mfr website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ford is one of the lowest rank automakers in the US, how rational do you expect people to be when they see that? We don't even understand the full extent of the problem, let alone an average consumer. How do you expect them to rationalize the scope of the problem? I'm just asking. Bolded the important part. But I'm guessing Ford does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Scenario: Owner buys car "H" and never has a problem with it during the 8 years of ownership. Gives car "H" to child and buys new car "F". New car "F" is overall a better car than "H", but it has three or four recalls and the transmission shifts "funny". Owner gets good service from dealership that sold him car "F" to fix the recalls..... but he still remembers that car "H" never gave him issues. Now it is time to get a new car..... I was surprised to see that it appears he will buy car "F" again.. http://www.forbes.co...d-loyal-buyers/ A lot of it depends on the dealer. My parents were loyal Oldsmobile buyers, and bought a brand-new 1988 Delta Eighty-Eight Royale. It was at the dealer for numerous problems the first three months they owned it (basically, the dealer had to finish assembling the car - the late 1980s were not a good time for GM). They ultimately stuck with GM for their next car because the dealer really went above and beyond the call of duty to make that car right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Define external source.... I'm thinking more along the lines of peer pressure....in general, ask someone, what type of car should I buy? I bet the next thing you hear is buy a Toyota (Camry/etc) or Honda (Civic/Accord), and often this is just based on hearsay, not actual ownership of the vehicle. So someone does this, has an issue with there new Toyota/Honda, but discounts it because their friends/family told them it was a good car...thus the conditioning of the owner... If I recall correctly, Consumer Reports influences about 1/3 of all new-car buyers. So that is one large external source. And my experience has been that Honda and Toyota owners do not discount problems...if anything, they expect the car to be perfect based on hype. VW and diehard GM owners are the ones who bend over and say, "Thank you, sir, may I have another?" The challenge for Ford, based on purely anecdotal evidence, is that owners are less likely to be like the owners of other domestics and more like Toyota and Honda owners. They are far less likely to make excuses for problems. Edited August 7, 2012 by grbeck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Scenario: Owner buys car "H" and never has a problem with it during the 8 years of ownership. Gives car "H" to child and buys new car "F". New car "F" is overall a better car than "H", but it has three or four recalls and the transmission shifts "funny". Owner gets good service from dealership that sold him car "F" to fix the recalls..... but he still remembers that car "H" never gave him issues. Now it is time to get a new car..... I was surprised to see that it appears he will buy car "F" again.. http://www.forbes.co...d-loyal-buyers/ Well, there's also a lot more to the ownership experience than what goes wrong with the vehicle while you own it. Even when things break, that typically accounts for a very, very small percentage of the time you have the vehicle. The rest of the time is the owner getting in and out of it every day, dealing with the interior and all of its controls, looking at it in the driveway, enjoying how it behaves on the road, etc. If the overall driving experience is pleasant, a couple problems here and there usually aren't going to change anyone's mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 My parents have had Fords since 1979 when my dad started working from them. Out of all them, 3 of them where stinkers...my SVT Focus, a 2002 Explorer (mostly because of the transmission and rear diff dying very close to one another...common problem that year) and the biggest stinker of them all...a 89 Taurus wagon that used to shit transmissions every 60K and 13 recalls on it...was a great car otherwise. All the other cars we've owned (about 15 different Fords) thats all the issues we've had. Not trying to troll your post, so please don't take it that way. But that's 20% of the cars your family bought from one maker were admittedly stinkers. That's a pretty high number for anyone to gamble with repeatedly. That to me would dissuade me from ever buying that manufacturers vehicle again....ever. Would you expect someone (whose family member does not work for the manufacturer) to come back after that? I think the concept that people should expect this type of vehicle every so often is long gone. People expect their vehicles (if maintained properly) to not give any major issues outside of normal wear and tear. I must be lucky, because I've owned over 30 cars (about 2/3 of which were Fords) and only had one (used) vehicle that had a major issue like you mention above (Pontiac). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Not trying to troll your post, so please don't take it that way. But that's 20% of the cars your family bought from one maker were admittedly stinkers. That's a pretty high number for anyone to gamble with repeatedly. That to me would dissuade me from ever buying that manufacturers vehicle again....ever. Would you expect someone (whose family member does not work for the manufacturer) to come back after that? You bring up a good point, but also its countered by the fact that outside of the Explorer and Focus being the same year (2002 models), the last bad car was bought 13 years prior to that...from 1991 to 1998, 4-6 more cars where bought by my immediate family with no issues, and the 1998 Ranger is still on the road with about 130K miles on it in 2012. There was def issues in 2002 till 2006 with Ford, since all the cars my family had some sort of issue with them and they where replaced. Further more, the Explorer issues with the transmission and diff issues where "late" in its lifetime (6 years after it was bought) there abouts and it was replaced by a 2008 Sable. The Focus was one big headache from when it was bought till it was replaced 3 years later. My father freely admits that he prob wouldn't have bought another Ford after all the issues with the Taurus he had with it, if he wasn't working for Ford. Personally I can accept a "bad" car once in a while, because stuff does happen..... Edited August 7, 2012 by silvrsvt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 To counter Silvrsvt's anecdotal experience: '68 Torino, '72 Galaxie, '80 LTD, '88 Taurus, '89 Sable, '92 Taurus, '92 Tempo, '93 Tempo, '98 Taurus, '99 Taurus, '98 Contour, '00 Sable, '01 Sable, '06 Focus, '08 Focus, '08 Taurus, '12 Taurus The '80 LTD was the only rotten car in the bunch, the '88 Taurus was the only car that required a transmission overhaul before 140k miles, and the '08 Taurus had a bad set of seat electronics (seat heater & seat memory) that had to be replaced under warranty. Other than the '80 LTD, my family hasn't had any particularly unreliable Fords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) As I have mentioned before and guess there are many others out there "blowing smoke". Go to F150forum.com and read all night long. Don't skip the stickies - they are current. This forum has turned into a meeting place for those with problems. And hard even for you folks to ignore. Cheri, no need to bring up the issues actual owners are experiencing. Too many users here have built in excuses for those problems, or they say these other users have an axe to grind with Ford products, or those other forum posts are the minority, no matter how many different sites and users post these same issues over and over again. Sure we may not know the full extent of the problem for many of those users posting their problems, but clearly by many of those posts, that are quite a few experiencing issues with the newer products. I'm pretty sure Gloria reads just as many, if not more, online F150 forums as you and she has a different conclusion. Yup, and Gloria is right, but bet those users from all these other forums posting their issues would disagree with her and many here that want to discredit the problem they as actual owners are experiencing. I frequent quite a few F150/F-Series forums, and have to side with Cheri here rather than Gloria. They are far less likely to make excuses for problems. Exactly. If there is a problem with any make/model, no matter how big/small it may be, it's a problem, no excuses. Like on my '06 F150 with 45K miles. I'm about to replace the driver door window switch for the 3rd time. Not hard and can do myself, takes about 5 minutes. It was covered under warranty the 1st time. Replaced it again early 2011 again at $70-$75 for the part, and now it's acting up again. Sure the truck has been practically flawless otherwise, but to replace the window switch 3 times in 6yrs and not even driving it that much. It's a poor design that Ford has not improved upon and this is a common problem with the 04-08 F150's and the dealers are too familiar with the issue. But I guess not being able to roll up/down your window isn't an issue though and owners should just expect to replace their window switch every couple years. Edited August 7, 2012 by V8-X 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Bolded the important part. But I'm guessing Ford does. I'm sure every car-maker with quality problems understands what causes them. But stopping them is a very different skill. And these lists are extremely important PR barometers which inform the conversation about Ford, whether the consumer directly sees them or not. It will form attitudes and is never to be under-estimated, especially in the US where quality is key. Until automakers are roughly equal in quality, there will always be worst or best...not better or best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Until automakers are roughly equal in quality, there will always be worst or best...not better or best. The issue is they already are...they are more or less splitting hairs now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'm sure every car-maker with quality problems understands what causes them. But stopping them is a very different skill. And these lists are extremely important PR barometers which inform the conversation about Ford, whether the consumer directly sees them or not. It will form attitudes and is never to be under-estimated, especially in the US where quality is key. Until automakers are roughly equal in quality, there will always be worst or best...not better or best. Yeah, the JD Power IQS has certainly ruined Land Rover's reputation as a premium marque. :unsure: The point is, the number of problems in and of itself is not the issue. How they are addressed is the issue, and Ford likely has a much better understanding of how that is going than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 The issue is they already are...they are more or less splitting hairs now... Ultimately I'd rather have the Ford we have now which is ambitiously innovating, than the Ford we had a few years ago which focused on quality ahead of design and leadership. But they continue to blunder in some big ways which seems unnecessary with better management and quality control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Yeah, the JD Power IQS has certainly ruined Land Rover's reputation as a premium marque. :unsure: The point is, the number of problems in and of itself is not the issue. How they are addressed is the issue, and Ford likely has a much better understanding of how that is going than we do. Land Rover doesn't have a dozen other equivalents chasing the same market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Land Rover doesn't have a dozen other equivalents chasing the same market. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Lincoln, Cadillac, Acura, and Infiniti don't sell SUV's? And don't give me the line about Land Rovers being "real SUVs" because I would wager a year's salary that 90% of them never see more than a gravel driveway in their entire lifetimes. Edited August 7, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Lincoln, Cadillac, Acura, and Infiniti don't sell SUV's? And don't give me the line about Land Rovers being "real SUVs" because I would wager a year's salary that 90% of them never see more than a gravel driveway in their entire lifetimes. You're kidding right? Do I really have to spell out how Land Rover is unique in the market? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) You're kidding right? Do I really have to spell out how Land Rover is unique in the market? Their products are somewhat unique, but their customers really aren't, except in that they don't seem to give a crap how poorly the brand continuously does on the JD Power IQS. (Or more likely, most customers in general for any brand don't particularly care how a brand does on the JD Power IQS.) Edited August 7, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 You're kidding right? Do I really have to spell out how Land Rover is unique in the market? No, but it would help if you explained how it's possible for you to be happy with Ford for not focusing on quality and angry at Ford for not focusing on quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Never mind. This thread is, by now, hopelessly lost and unutterably stupid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.