RichardJensen Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) The 1.6L EB seems to have turned into a problem child for Ford with Escape recalls and now this. Right. Because this stop-ship has been clearly connected with the 1.6L EB. Edited October 27, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 So is this the third new vehicle launch in row that has gotten off to a rocky start? Yes, it's "Leap to Conclusions Day" Today is the day when we make hasty and ill-informed judgments based on incomplete data! I'm going to try and play: 'Know what I like? Frosted Mini-wheats. Therefore all smart people like Frosted Mini-wheats and people that don't are stupid because they don't like them.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Ford is making massive changes to platforms and supplier contracts in the USA, with so much upheaval some glitches are to be expected but these so called recalls are for relatively nuisance problems, not massive systemic failures like the bad old days of ill prepared launches. People piss and moan about Focus and Escape launch but both vehicles have settled into strong sellers with higher ATPs than previous generations. We can only hope the very same thing happens to Fusion and C-Max, yeah Ford takes chances but they also get a lot of highly profitable sales too. Edited October 27, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Ford is making massive changes to platforms and supplier contracts in the USA, with so much upheaval some glitches are to be expected but these so called recalls are for relatively nuisance problems, not massive systemic failures like the bad old days of ill prepared launches. People piss and moan about Focus and Escape launch but both vehicles have settled into strong sellers with higher ATPs than previous generations. We can only hope the very same thing happens to Fusion and C-Max, yeah Ford takes chances but they also get a lot of highly profitable sales too. Sorry, not sold on 1.6 L EB with less than 180hp in 3600 pound car. Ford would have been better off adding 15hp to the 2.5 VCT and offering the 2.0EB as only engine option with V6 Fusion ST coming later or higher displacement I4 EB. The 1.6L EB should be the engine option for the Focus which is 500 pounds lighter, not the Fusion. So now Ford is stuck with no 2012 Fusions and stop/hold on 2013 Fusions with 1.6 L EB. Not good, and three week transit time from Mexico when given OK to ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Sorry, not sold on 1.6 L EB with less than 180hp in 3600 pound car. Ford would have been better off adding 15hp to the 2.5 VCT and offering the 2.0EB as only engine option with V6 Fusion ST coming later or higher displacement I4 EB. The 1.6L EB should be the engine option for the Focus which is 500 pounds lighter, not the Fusion. So now Ford is stuck with no 2012 Fusions and stop/hold on 2013 Fusions with 1.6 L EB. Not good, and three week transit time from Mexico when given OK to ship. The 1.6 EB has low down torque the 2.5 can only dream about, in an auto trans set up that's worth a lot in getting the car off the line swiftly. Ford has done a good job on the SE 2.5 I-4 package and i would expect that the majority of sales will swing its way, regardless of Ecoboost. The basic I-4 has been the Fusion's bread and butter with the previous model sales running just over 80% and the way I'm looking at the 2.0 EB is as a more fuel efficient replacement for the D35 V6, where the V6 would get 18/28 mpg, the 2.0 EB gets 22 / 33 mpg. The 1.6 Ecoboost adds about 30 lb ft of torque at the bottom end over the 2.5, I think people will order it with an auto. Edited October 27, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 They eliminated the SEL in the Focus for 2013 also....i imagine they will do the same next year on the Escape. More packaging, less flexibility for the customer...more efficient build and cost savings for Ford. This will happen for the 2014 MY Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Now that SEL is gone, it's looking like the SE is the car for people designing their own uniquely tailored car whilst Titanium remains as the "complete" package, this strategy probably gives the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Now that SEL is gone, it's looking like the SE is the car for people designing their own uniquely tailored car whilst Titanium remains as the "complete" package, this strategy probably gives the best of both worlds. How does narrowing down choices to consumer become best of both worlds? I understand how it makes Ford's job easier, but you can't leave the consumer out of equation. There is pretty big gap between SE and Titianium that goes unfilled. For example, heated seats is very big option even in hot weather states where it gets chilly at night in winter, and making it so that consumer has to spend over $2,000 extra for lux package to get them is not smart IMO as consumer has other choices as in other auto company offerings. A cheap winter package like on Focus would be nice offering. I may be more tempted if Ford offers Focus hatch with 1.6 EB SE with winter package along with sports appearance package and six speed manual. Or better yet a Focus wagon with same. Not in love with Fusion models except for new Fusion hybrid assuming cargo hold hasn't been overly pinched with battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 you can't leave the consumer out of equation I'll make sure to send that memo to Alan and Mark first thing Monday morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) How does narrowing down choices to consumer become best of both worlds? I understand how it makes Ford's job easier, but you can't leave the consumer out of equation. There is pretty big gap between SE and Titianium that goes unfilled.For example, heated seats is very big option even in hot weather states where it gets chilly at night in winter, and making it so that consumer has to spend over $2,000 extra for lux package to get them is not smart IMO as consumer has other choices as in other auto company offerings. And then the penny drops: A cheap winter package like on Focus would be nice offering. I may be more tempted if Ford offers Focus hatch with 1.6 EB SE with winter package along with sports appearance package and six speed manual. Or better yet a Focus wagon with same. This is all about you. Not in love with Fusion models except for new Fusion hybrid assuming cargo hold hasn't been overly pinched with battery. You're worried about Fusion hybrid cargo area and yet Volt gets a walk on being a four seater? That double standard is ridiculous....Fusion Hybrid Trunk:- LINK Edited October 28, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Sorry, not sold on 1.6 L EB with less than 180hp in 3600 pound car. Base curb weight, 1.6-liter EB 3,421 (automatic); 3,333 (manual) Base curb weight, 2.5-liter 3,615 (automatic) source http://media.ford.co...usion_Specs.pdf even the 2.0 EB is lighter then the 2.5l Ti-VCT Base curb weight, 2.0-liter EB 3,526 (FWD); 3,681 (AWD) Edited October 28, 2012 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Hang on, how can a Fusion 1.6 EB Auto be close to 200 lb lighter than the 2.5 auto base model? That doesn't sound right....the 2.5 should be around 3400 lbs. Edited October 28, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx8402 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I would assume that since the EB engines are newer designed engines, they were designed to be light weight with the materials used. Also, they are smaller in size in general, and I would think the turbo adds less weight then the difference in engine size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) I would assume that since the EB engines are newer designed engines, they were designed to be light weight with the materials used. Also, they are smaller in size in general, and I would think the turbo adds less weight then the difference in engine size. the 1.6 EB weight at around 3400 lb sounds about right compared to the Euro Mondeo 1.6 EB and manual trans. In some markets, the current Mondeo still uses the old 2.3 i-4 (same family as 2.0 and 2.5 ) and it weighs around 1550 Kg or about 3400 lbs. I think somebody at Ford screwed up the weights on that media release. no way a base FWD 2.5 Fusion weighs 3600 lbs. Edited October 28, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 As for the SE vs Titanium...a fully loaded SE normally costs more then a base more Titanium with the same equipment or more. Fusion SE 2L EB FWD loaded out $34K Base Fusion Ti with AWD $33390 or 31K with FWD base or 36K loaded with FWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Current Mondeo weights Mondeo 1.6L EB sedan weight 3,296 lbs manual tranny Mondeo 2.0L EB sedan weight 3,452 lbs (Powershift trans) Mondeo 2.0L 145hp sedan weight 3,250 lbs manual tranny USA spec cars are usually a few lbs heavier then same Euro models Edited October 28, 2012 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmal Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Guys, please try to help. Does anyone know why there is a stop ship? Also, in my experience the real world MPGs of the 1.6EB and the 2.0EB are about the same. Anyone else notice different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Also, in my experience the real world MPGs of the 1.6EB and the 2.0EB are about the same. Anyone else notice different? I concur mschmal. However, there is a very noticeable difference in overall responsiveness and refinement between the two engines. The 2.0L engine is much better on both counts. Sadly, the 6-speed manual transmission can only be paired with the underwhelming 1.6L Ecoboost engine on U.S. market 2013 Ford Fusions. Regarding the stop-ship, I don't know what the underlying reasons are. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Guys, please try to help. Does anyone know why there is a stop ship? That information is confidential. Few people who know why a stop-ship exists will share that information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmal Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 One aspect of the Fusion that really disappointed me is all the highly scratchable grey painted plastic on the interior. Right out of a 2004 Mazda6. The interior of the Focus and the Escape is actually more upscale looking IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I read somewhere that the stop ship has to do with parts shortage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincep5 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I heard transport issues, but not sure if that's a PR response. Anyways, mine is finally in transit to the dealership. I havent gotten any updates since early this month. You've got to wonder if they were fixing something, what happens to the ones that are currently on the dealers' lots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I heard it was a headlamp shortage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 what happens to the ones that are currently on the dealers' lots? Typically, the fix is applied to the affected vehicles using the dealer's service bays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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