"Avoid Shift-Shock"

[Hugh]

Just watched a tele advert and it showed a cute yuppie-like couple driving the "Next-Generation" Maxima with CVT (hence the topic title).

 

I know this CVT is in the Murano and I heard no bad reviews of it. Here is my question(s):

 

Is Ford dropping their CVT? If so why? Is it not able to handle the power of the D35?

 

Is it so unpopular that having a CVT is stoning offence amoungst the gearhead elite?

 

I feel this advertising will have more consumers drink the Nissan kool-aid for the next big thing.

 

I also think the CVT may have a future. Reports from drivers indicate it is something new to get used to just like driving a Hybrid for example.

 

Comments, Questions, Rude Remarks?

[Roadrunner]

CVT works well enough. How does it mesh with fuel economy?

Edited August 8, 2006 by Roadrunner

[silvrsvt]

I'll make the assumpution that the new 6 speed is cheaper and easier to put together vs the CVT transmission with the MPG differences being negitabile.

[Hugh]

I'll make the assumpution that the new 6 speed is cheaper and easier to put together vs the CVT transmission with the MPG differences being negitabile.

If memory serves: the 6F was a Ford/GM collaboration. Where will we see this tranny on GM products?

 

As well, I believe ZF was the prime contractor for the CVT. Was this always a short term alliance?

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Fuel economy difference between a properly setup CVT and a 6-AT is in the less than 3% range.

 

Ford appears to be dropping the CVT as their new 6F makes volume.

 

The CVT in the D3 vehicles was compromised. The final drive ration was set very high to allow the engine into its powerband sooner rather than later. This limited the range of ratios that the CVT was able to operate with, but made hte engine feel stronger than it should have.

 

Do not mourn the loss of the CVT. While it was a decent stopgap, the 6F will be a good replacement.

 

Technically speaking, the CVT in the D3s topped out with respect to torque capacity in the 225-230 lb range. The D35 already bests that on its base tune.

[Hemiman]

While I like CVT's, (been using them for years in snowmobiles under the alias of Torque Converter) I HATE that commercial! It's just SO lame! Anyone who's driven a modern computer controlled automatic can tell you that "shift shock" is a stupid made up term.

 

Oh yeah, I once had a 66 Stang with a B&M equipped C-4. I guess that had some "shift shock".

 

Maybe it's my contempt for Yuppie anything that make that comercial so grating.

 

Sorry about the rant, I've been waiting for a good excuse to comment on that "finger nails on the chalk board" commercial!

[kevinb120]

The CVT is so much nicer then a 6 speed auto. Anything over 5 speeds gets confused with laggy shifts. Ford drops em, and Nissan moves ahead with them. I was really anxious to see the D35 with CVT in the 500, now its just going to have the clunky 6 speed?

[NickF1011]

The CVT is so much nicer then a 6 speed auto. Anything over 5 speeds gets confused with laggy shifts. Ford drops em, and Nissan moves ahead with them. I was really anxious to see the D35 with CVT in the 500, now its just going to have the clunky 6 speed?

 

"...the clunky 6 speed"? And you've driven any cars with the new 6F transmission have you?

[2005Explorer]

I know this CVT is in the Murano and I heard no bad reviews of it. Here is my question(s):

 

A lot of people who buy vehicles like this want the ability to tow small trailers or pop-up style campers. How is the CVT going to handle that over long term use? I don't have problems with CVT's I just wonder how durable they are if you start doing even light weight towing.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Simply put, the current CVT that Ford uses in the D3 vehicles will not handle the torque of the D35 in a reliable fashion.

 

The "shift issues" with the current 6AT have been largely dealt with. Remember, the Aisin 6AT that's in the D3s is a third party tranny that Ford only buys, does minor tuning to, and then installs. They don't buy any of the bells and whistles for it as they want to keep the price down. That same tranny in use by other manufactureres (Toyota for one) has manual shifting capabilities and does a good job of choosing the right gear at the right time. So, its a Ford skimping and tuning issue.

 

The new 6F is a whole different animal and is more than capable of any of the bellls and whistles that Ford wants to throw at it.

[jsleesma]

But I think the point here is that Nissan was SELLING the CVT once they decided to put it on a vehicle. In other words, they found some BENEFITS that come from a CVT (even if, as I readily admit, it is some stupid made-up problem that only yuppie scum care about) and TOLD people about them in the commercial.

 

Why doesn't Ford do this? They could start by ADVERTISING that their 3.5l V6 makes its 267hp on regular fuel while Toyota's makes its 268 on premium.

[ANTAUS]

Because Ford's advertising agency, simply sucks. I have yet to see a decent commercial in years. I think the only informative, decent ones were a few years back when Bill Ford described the vehicle or it's features....

 

Now we have "Lincoln" commercial that don't discuss the vehicle at all, yet peoples hopes, dreams, and whack off fantasies...

[silvrsvt]

Why doesn't Ford do this? They could start by ADVERTISING that their 3.5l V6 makes its 267hp on regular fuel while Toyota's makes its 268 on premium.

 

 

In the new MKZ preview on Edmunds Ford states this fact...since the 3.5L isn't out in anything just yet..well its hard to advertise something that isn't for sale yet

[kevinb120]

"...the clunky 6 speed"? And you've driven any cars with the new 6F transmission have you?

 

Dude I sell Fords I have driven over 150 new Fusions and 500s with 6 speeds. They're clunky, get easily confused, hunt, and are very laggy to throttle response. Come down here anytime and I will let you pick any of the 100 or so 6 speed auto sedans we have and go play with them. I'll take an 07 500 limited to Starbucks right now actually, its got satalite so I can play a little channel 100. BBIAB..

Edited August 21, 2006 by kevinb120

[old_fairmont_wagon]

The 6AT in the 500s and current CD3s is an Aisin made 6AT with a Ford program loaded into its control logic. That same tranny in Toyotas shifts briliantly and smoothly and has exhibited very good overall manners. In some Toyota models, it even has the manual shift gate, allowing you to choose your own gear.

 

Ford decided not to buy or develop any of the bells and whistles for this tranny and the experience has suffered for it. In the 500, its trying desperately to keep the D30 in its powerband to lug around that hulk of a car. Not an easy task for an engine that doesn't have VCT. In the CD3, its got an easier job to do, and, as such, doesn't cause as many complaints.

[ANTAUS]

The same transmission is not only Toyota, but Volvo has also been a POS. For some odd reason that version is experiencing a high failure rate. The Mazda6/Fusion/500 version seems to be avoiding any issues... There has to be a common denominator in that.

[jsleesma]

kevinb I think that old_fairmont_wagon and NickF are talking about the 6-speed that works with the Duratec 35. I'm pretty sure that one is different than the farmed out 6 speed on the Fusion.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

That is correct, the Duratec 35 will be used exclusively with the Joint Venture 6AT that Ford and GM worked on. The Aisin 6AT as used by Ford in their F/L/M products is used exclusively with the duratec 30. The Aisin is well within its torque limits with the Duratec 30, but, the Volvo units are pushing the limits of the tranny with the Turbo 6 and the V8.

[ANTAUS]

I believe the Turbo 6 had a GM supplied transmission if I remember correctly. This was years ago when they debuted the S80, and the engineers stated they just couldn't make a 5 speed fit at the time....I believe earlier than that, Jag was using the same unit on their XK-R models for the same reason...GM had one available that could do the job.

 

As for the V8 though, I think that's a ZF tranny isn't it ? I could look it up but, I have enough on my plate for today.

[fllcobra]

Because Ford's advertising agency, simply sucks. I have yet to see a decent commercial in years. I think the only informative, decent ones were a few years back when Bill Ford described the vehicle or it's features....

 

Now we have "Lincoln" commercial that don't discuss the vehicle at all, yet peoples hopes, dreams, and whack off fantasies...

 

:lol: .... you nailed it.

[F250]

The 6AT in the 500s and current CD3s is an Aisin made 6AT with a Ford program loaded into its control logic. That same tranny in Toyotas shifts briliantly and smoothly and has exhibited very good overall manners. In some Toyota models, it even has the manual shift gate, allowing you to choose your own gear.

 

Ford decided not to buy or develop any of the bells and whistles for this tranny and the experience has suffered for it. In the 500, its trying desperately to keep the D30 in its powerband to lug around that hulk of a car. Not an easy task for an engine that doesn't have VCT. In the CD3, its got an easier job to do, and, as such, doesn't cause as many complaints.

 

I recomend doing a little research on that Toyota praise. The new '07 Camry V6 6-speed autos are failing big time. How bad is it? Well Toyota is very quietly buying back many new '07 V6 Camrys because backorders for replacment transmissions were over 250 nationwide which means those cars sat at dealerships for 3-4 weeks waiting for replacement transmissions.

 

The Camry is to Toyota as the F-150 is to Ford. If Ford had blown a new generation launch like this the media would have exploded. But this is ToyZilla...