Langston Hughes Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 ...he's the guy you voted for, so you'll make excuses for it. Some people just seem to enjoy being lied to. Don't bash republicans they can't help it they like being lied to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I have been doing start ups for almost 10 years since I retired the first time and not once in that period has insurance ever played a role EXCEPT when we talk to investors that don't want to go over 50 employees as the incremental step in regulatory cost is just too steep. So the issue is ACA, not the lack of it. How exactly do you propose that single payer be financed? ACAQ is a good example of what happens when you try to turn wishful thinking into a law. Why would single payer be any different? I know personally where insurance has played a role in small business and people did not make the move because of insurance. And I realise that INVESTORS worried about 50 employees would not be as worried as a young family who might be leaving their career to open a small business where they'd be the primary employees. Yes, you don't see them because you see the people who can afford the move, have insurance through a spouse, but people who knew they'd have insurance issues would not go see you. I was in plant when Ford sent in financial and business people to discuss the buyouts and heard the questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Some people are not smart or honest enough to admit the person they originally supported is much different in practice. Denile.....not just a river in Egypt. Yeah, your still trapped thinking Bush wasn't the worst president ever. I think you should stop projecting on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Don't bash republicans they can't help it they like being lied to. Yeah, your still trapped thinking Bush wasn't the worst president ever. I think you should stop projecting on others. Deflector shields activated! Edited October 30, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Langston, seriously... if some one were to come to me and the biggest concern they had about a start up was insurance, I would send them home. If the $1000 a month for health insurance is a deal breaker, then they really shouldn't be even remotely considering a start up. New ventures fail at better than 90% mostly over things that are beyond control. A predictable cost like insurance is the easy stuff. And more than a few of my clients have come from the corporate world of feather bed benefits. They all seem to understand the cost, but they simply can't comprehend why Ford could pay benefits with pre tax money, but as a new LLC they have to pay for the same benefits with after tax dollars. One very simple thing that a functional Congress could do is to allow employers to compensate employees for health insurance expenses, like the way they do for Congressmen and staffers under Obamacare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Langston, seriously... if some one were to come to me and the biggest concern they had about a start up was insurance, I would send them home. If the $1000 a month for health insurance is a deal breaker, then they really shouldn't be even remotely considering a start up. New ventures fail at better than 90% mostly over things that are beyond control. A predictable cost like insurance is the easy stuff. And more than a few of my clients have come from the corporate world of feather bed benefits. They all seem to understand the cost, but they simply can't comprehend why Ford could pay benefits with pre tax money, but as a new LLC they have to pay for the same benefits with after tax dollars. One very simple thing that a functional Congress could do is to allow employers to compensate employees for health insurance expenses, like the way they do for Congressmen and staffers under Obamacare. I can understand that, if we are only talking about healthy adults with no pre-existing conditions, but I am including them in the discusion. That is an issue for many families and what I see you again talking about are better off people who go to a planner something many small business people don't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Deflector shields activated! Yeah, Obama lied and more people got heath insurance coverage. Bush lied and people got wounded and killed. That f****** Obama! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah, Obama lied and more people got heath insurance coverage. Bush lied and people got wounded and killed. That f****** Obama! Obama lied and American Embassy employees and others are killed. There's blood on his hands as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Obama lied and American Embassy employees and others are killed. There's blood on his hands as well. Where's the grammar Nazi at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Where's the grammar Nazi at? I dont know or care. But, you are the last guy who should complain. But, for curiosity's sake, what is my egregious grammatical faux pas? Edited October 31, 2013 by FiredMotorCompany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 You skipped right past this one LH. Stir the pot then leave it to scald? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah, Obama lied This is what the discussion is. The rest is deflection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah, Obama lied and more people got heath insurance coverage. Bush lied and people got wounded and killed. That f****** Obama! Actually, there are currently fewer people with health insurance coverage now, than when Obama took office. There are also more people who are being dropped from their preferred policy than are obtaining new policy under Obamacare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 President Bystander....."I didn't know. So, I'm not going to do anything about it. That might involve me in being responsible for ANYTHING that might make me look bad or I have to answer without my prepared speech." "Let's have a beer summit and talk about it." "Somebody acted stupidly." "I inherited this Obamacare debacle." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodrowwilson Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Where's the grammar Nazi at? Hopefully fixing healthcare.gov Edited October 31, 2013 by woodrowwilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I can understand that, if we are only talking about healthy adults with no pre-existing conditions, but I am including them in the discusion. That is an issue for many families and what I see you again talking about are better off people who go to a planner something many small business people don't do. So what you are saying is that people with poor judgment, that don't seek any sort of advice before starting a new business, might not start those businesses because they can't afford to pay for insurance coverage? I think this is probably the best decision folks in that situation could make. It is called under-capitalization. What I am telling you is that if they can't swing the cost of insurance, they have no business trying to do a start up. The metric that counts isn't how many business start up, it is how many start and succeed. The general rule of thumb is that the founder needs to have two years of personal expenses in hand on day one, or the chances of failure to thrive will increase by a factor of 20. Also, you are making assumptions about the folks I work with. First off, I don't work on a fee basis. I only participate when I have some sort of contingency position. I don't make money unless my clients make money. If the proposal is strong enough, I am the one that puts up the two years of living expenses if they need it. I can't have a partner making bad decisions to cover the grocery bill. You can defend this bad law in many different ways, but this one is just silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 So what you are saying is that people with poor judgment, that don't seek any sort of advice before starting a new business, might not start those businesses because they can't afford to pay for insurance coverage? I think this is probably the best decision folks in that situation could make. It is called under-capitalization. What I am telling you is that if they can't swing the cost of insurance, they have no business trying to do a start up. The metric that counts isn't how many business start up, it is how many start and succeed. The general rule of thumb is that the founder needs to have two years of personal expenses in hand on day one, or the chances of failure to thrive will increase by a factor of 20. Also, you are making assumptions about the folks I work with. First off, I don't work on a fee basis. I only participate when I have some sort of contingency position. I don't make money unless my clients make money. If the proposal is strong enough, I am the one that puts up the two years of living expenses if they need it. I can't have a partner making bad decisions to cover the grocery bill. You can defend this bad law in many different ways, but this one is just silly. I'm not defending this law, I'm telling you that single payer is a benefit to business because it eliminates the healthcare variable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 248 signed up in the first three days? Dear GOD, forgive them, for they know not what they have done. Hopefully, America will repent in 2016 and we can put these past eight years behind us, as examples of misguided idealism and naivete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 248 signed up in the first three days? Dear GOD, forgive them, for they know not what they have done. Hopefully, America will repent in 2016 and we can put these past eight years behind us, as examples of misguided idealism and naivete. Because we need God's forgiveness because we wanted to get more people insured. Yeah, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 Because we need God's forgiveness because we wanted to get more people insured. Yeah, right. Destroy a system that worked for 85% of Americans to provide for 15%? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And when you swing a sledgehammer, a miss can be painful and damaging in ways unintended. Who would have expected or have promoted the program side effects to involve employers dumping their plans for their employees, employers reducing staffing levels or limiting hiring, cutting hours to meet the minimum requirements, tying health records to income taxes, privacy and personal information being subjected to theft due to inept website security implementation............. Government implements restrictions or penalties as if they happen in a vacuum. Leading to the eventual call for more restrictions and regulations to force compliance and limit Americans options to avoid them. The Income Tax loopholes and financial decisions to minimize any taxes due is an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) 248 signed up in the first three days? Dear GOD, forgive them, for they know not what they have done. Hopefully, America will repent in 2016 and we can put these past eight years behind us, as examples of misguided idealism and naivete. The kicker here is that on the big roll out day they signed up 6. Thats right 6 people. 20 million hits and you sign up 6????? They need 38K per day everyday for 6 months. Now we find out the employers insurance are also going to be subject to similar regulations as the private owners insurance which kicks in Jan 1 2014. This could effect 90 million folks! This is all buried on page 34,xxx of the regulations wrote after the fact in 2010. But hey, we gotta pass it to find out whats in it. They have know about this for over 3 years and we are just now finding out about it. Bait and switch if there has ever been one. This will be the biggest failure in the history of time of the federal goverment and Obama and his liberal goons own every single piece of it including all of the lies they told to sell it. This will be BHO's legacy of a failed presidency along with his other socialist views of the economy that have not worked. Get some popcorn and sit back and watch the carnage of the bystander in chief. Edited November 1, 2013 by chevys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Destroy a system that worked for 85% of Americans to provide for 15%? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And when you swing a sledgehammer, a miss can be painful and damaging in ways unintended. Who would have expected or have promoted the program side effects to involve employers dumping their plans for their employees, employers reducing staffing levels or limiting hiring, cutting hours to meet the minimum requirements, tying health records to income taxes, privacy and personal information being subjected to theft due to inept website security implementation............. Government implements restrictions or penalties as if they happen in a vacuum. Leading to the eventual call for more restrictions and regulations to force compliance and limit Americans options to avoid them. The Income Tax loopholes and financial decisions to minimize any taxes due is an example. You keep talking like the ACA is some sort of affront to God, at least your God, but it's not. While i admire the strength of faith, I am repulsed at the bad theology that the Christian right espouses. America is not the next chosen land, God does not hate taxes, nor government regulation and the ACA is not some sin that we need to pray forgiveness for. And the road to hell is not paved with good intentions despite the ole saying. It is paved with bad intentions, and acts of malice and evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Hopefully, America will repent in 2016 and we can put these past eight years behind us, as examples of misguided idealism and naivete. It would sound better if you said the last 16+ years behind us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal50 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 The kicker here is that on the big roll out day they signed up 6. Thats right 6 people. 20 million hits and you sign up 6????? They need 38K per day everyday for 6 months. Now we find out the employers insurance are also going to be subject to similar regulations as the private owners insurance which kicks in Jan 1 2014. This could effect 90 million folks! This is all buried on page 34,xxx of the regulations wrote after the fact in 2010. But hey, we gotta pass it to find out whats in it. They have know about this for over 3 years and we are just now finding out about it. Bait and switch if there has ever been one. This will be the biggest failure in the history of time of the federal goverment and Obama and his liberal goons own every single piece of it including all of the lies they told to sell it. This will be BHO's legacy of a failed presidency along with his other socialist views of the economy that have not worked. Get some popcorn and sit back and watch the carnage of the bystander in chief. Its like watching a building implode..... The other part of it is the idiots that still try to defend it on various levels yet few of the supposed benefits are coming true. Obama outright lied to the public , multiple times with a poker straight face and continues to do so. History will not be kind to him nor should it be, Obama is the leader of idiots / head idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 It would sound better if you said the last 16+ years behind us. The naivete was most evident in the past eight years. Not that the previous eight were all cake and ice cream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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