Reduction in Classifications

[cecilmeyer]

Hello

 

I am an union employee at CAP.We are hearing rumors of job classifications being reduced to only 3,Skilled trades,Assemblers and Group leaders..My question is are there any other ford plants in the system working with only 3 classifications.Heard specifically FAP was doing this.I am not sure.Any input or info would be very helpful in clearing up rumors.

[mnm]

I wouldn't think that's something they could do mid-contract. ??

[Decker]

Local contracts list classifications. National agreements, not so much.

 

There are facilities that have local agreements that do in fact have something like you reference. The difference are in the terms. Two production classifcations, Group Member and Group Leader. The Trades will retain the lines of demarcation (for now) but, in an agreement where the two production classifications are implemented the Trades members will most likely be grouped together as Mechanical Work Groups. Which in it`s self a night mare waiting to start.

 

Cecil the classifications you are hearing rumors about are in place and wrote into local agreements. But, not at CAP.

 

Decker

[trailfndr]

Flat Rock has run only 2 production classifications since 1987. They have Team leader, and team member. It works. Everyone makes the same money, everyone is considered able and capable of doing the job for overtime. And you eliminate allot of crap when it comes to bids. EVERYONE is able to bid on every job so seniority is the only rule. Much better than saying that you have to be working in a certain area to take a better job (like MAP does)

 

Don't be afraid of change...You can bet that all plants will go to that system at some point in the not so distant future.

[lquidspine]

We run with Production floor associate and Production floor tech and team leader, what trailfndr says works ONLY if the company is willing to actually give everyone a fair chance to train in all the jobs. Usually the company is to worried about sending extras home to give consideration to versatility training, just my experience in Dearborn.

So we technically have only 3 classifications in production but we utilize some older job titles within the Tech classifications.

[jerrymaker]

Hello

 

I am an union employee at CAP.We are hearing rumors of job classifications being reduced to only 3,Skilled trades,Assemblers and Group leaders..My question is are there any other ford plants in the system working with only 3 classifications.Heard specifically FAP was doing this.I am not sure.Any input or info would be very helpful in clearing up rumors.

skilled trades at flatrock are mechanical, electrical and tool and die. thats it. just wait till health care is on the next contract. you think ford wants to pay billions for health care when there is obama care...... just wait!

[cecilmeyer]

Flat Rock has run only 2 production classifications since 1987. They have Team leader, and team member. It works. Everyone makes the same money, everyone is considered able and capable of doing the job for overtime. And you eliminate allot of crap when it comes to bids. EVERYONE is able to bid on every job so seniority is the only rule. Much better than saying that you have to be working in a certain area to take a better job (like MAP does)

 

Don't be afraid of change...You can bet that all plants will go to that system at some point in the not so distant future.

I am not afraid of change if its for the better.That being said we at cap, most classified jobs make a little more per hour than say an assembler.I know its not a lot of money but just the thought of giving ANY amount of money back to the company after we have given so much and the company making billions just does not sit well with me!!!!!Thanks for the info.

[cecilmeyer]

We run with Production floor associate and Production floor tech and team leader, what trailfndr says works ONLY if the company is willing to actually give everyone a fair chance to train in all the jobs. Usually the company is to worried about sending extras home to give consideration to versatility training, just my experience in Dearborn.

So we technically have only 3 classifications in production but we utilize some older job titles within the Tech classifications.

I appreciate the info,thank you.

[cecilmeyer]

Local contracts list classifications. National agreements, not so much.

 

There are facilities that have local agreements that do in fact have something like you reference. The difference are in the terms. Two production classifcations, Group Member and Group Leader. The Trades will retain the lines of demarcation (for now) but, in an agreement where the two production classifications are implemented the Trades members will most likely be grouped together as Mechanical Work Groups. Which in it`s self a night mare waiting to start.

 

Cecil the classifications you are hearing rumors about are in place and wrote into local agreements. But, not at CAP.

 

Decker

Thanks for the info.

[cecilmeyer]

skilled trades at flatrock are mechanical, electrical and tool and die. thats it. just wait till health care is on the next contract. you think ford wants to pay billions for health care when there is obama care...... just wait!

I agree with the obama care thing but then again it might turn out to be a good thing if the company does not have that to beat us over the head and extract more and more concessions every contract.Only time will tell.I got five years till Im paroled.....sorry I meant retirement.

[Decker]

lquidspine it is the same here at CAP. Sometimes management pushes the go home button so fast that they have been known to go running to the parking lot to try to get people back....

 

CAP also doesn`t have a good track record with training. How can you train people if the man power is always short? Even when there is enough to cover the managers or what ever the title is this week, usually sends the hard to place (special) people home before they call their manpower numbers in.....

 

Here at CAP "everyone" is always considered able and capable when it comes to overtime.... actually we have had people that weren`t willing or able to do an operation through the first 40 hours but ... considered and capable to report to work for their RDO`s.

 

I`ve said this before, FlatRocker`s have a completely different world they live in, (Mazda juice in the cooler) than what we at CAP live in. Not saying that is a good thing or bad thing. Just sounds like everything is so mellow up there compared to the daily "why did they do that"? or "can you beleive they did that"? or "noooo!!!! they didn`t do that"!!!

 

I will say let this hit CAP and Ya`ll ain`t seen nutten yet.... CAP has been at such a low level of common sense for so long they will be able to write a book of "The Tecniques of Utter Chaos".

 

trailfndr,

It seems by other posts on this site, other FRAP members dont share your nirvana. It seems that some members beleive the company is able to do whatever they want. Would that be because of the companies ability (no classification) to move members and have them do whatever the company (Team Leaders) see`s fit for the members to do? In your nirvana is there high seniority members considered "floaters" while lower seniority members are secrued on operations?

 

Just wondering?

 

Decker

Edited October 4, 2013 by Decker

[Ktp1989]

skilled trades at flatrock are mechanical, electrical and tool and die. thats it. just wait till health care is on the next contract. you think ford wants to pay billions for health care when there is obama care...... just wait!

can't wait

Edited October 4, 2013 by Ktp1989

[bigredogre]

so flat rock only has 3 classifactions.

just got to make sure ,so you mean no millwright,pipefitter,carpentor,tinner,ect

[Sailinshoes]

FRAP 3 skilled classifications = Mechanical (Pipefitters, Millwrights, Machine Repair, Toolmaker etc. would fall in here), Electrical and Tool and Die.

[fordmichiganman]

Frap is Crap

[trailfndr]

trailfndr,

It seems by other posts on this site, other FRAP members dont share your nirvana. It seems that some members beleive the company is able to do whatever they want. Would that be because of the companies ability (no classification) to move members and have them do whatever the company (Team Leaders) see`s fit for the members to do? In your nirvana is there high seniority members considered "floaters" while lower seniority members are secrued on operations?

 

Just wondering?

 

Decker

Decker, Over the 23 years that I worked in that facility, the only people that got loaned out were by low seniority unless someone volunteered, and the team leaders did not assign work. that was the job of management Team leaders did bathroom relief and assisted wherever help was needed in their area. As for floaters, We had contractual language that allowed us to choose our jobs (within our particular Unit of 10-40 people) once each year, and it was by seniority. You could choose to be a floater, but that simply meant you could do any job in that area and you covered absences and vacations. If anyone was sent to a different work area, it was low man unless someone else volunteered.

 

As for pay scale, Because of the lack of classifications, we were paid more than assemblers, roughly close to the middle of the road at classified plants.

Edited October 4, 2013 by trailfndr

[Decker]

Thanks, trailfndr.

 

But it dosen`t sound like it would be for me. I don`t think that it would be productive for the members to be driven even more into the generalization that the compamy wants the whole work force to become. It all goes to helping the company beyond what the unions were at one time fighting against.

 

First the crafts unions and then trades unions fought very hard to keep their identities. This made sure there was work for the different groups and made sure companies and contractors got the people that held the skills and the acountability to do the job right.

 

The UAW started out preserving the trades identity which they did for years. (lines of demarcation) Then they preserved the laborers their identity by secruing complete descriptions of the work that had to be preformed to be able to hold a classification. This was for years apart of the local agreements and give the locals the ability to tayor the classifications to the work being preformed at their plant.

 

Now for the last few local contracts we have seen the slow but sure disappearing act when it come to the description of the work preformed to hold a classification. At this point at CAP we have completely lost these descriptions. Now not many, know this was happening or not many even know they are gone.

 

Most trades members never thought this would ever effect them. Now I`m not saying the trades turned a blind eye to the elimination of the description of work preformed to hold those classifications but more of the type of response that we (trades) have our own issues and the laborers can vote their issues down.

 

Well, either we the laborers didn`t understand or weren`t given a clear view of the last few local agreements, what ever the reason, we have voted for local agreements that have taken away our idenity, our right to work in a classification. Our descriptions of what the work is to be done, to hold the classification. When something isn`t spelled out in any contract the rights can be just simply denied because its not in writing. 6 or 8 years ago who would have ever guessed the trades would have something call mechanical groupings?

 

Well, we still have a listing of pay scales per our classifications. But, with no descriptions of work that needs to be preformed. Does anyone know why that is? How could mangement and the union have something in the local agreement (in writing) to spellout what it takes to hold a designated or un designated classification that by the local agreement spells out how much every member will be paid.... This is how these descriptions worked and were binding in the local agreements. If I had to rub my head while I sprayed a fender and that was the description of what I had to do to become a repairman then... I was to be paid as the description for repairmen were to be paid. Now throw in the newest a largest classification at CAP "entry level" yep, over 2600 members all in one undescrip classification. All these members don`t have a description for their classification either. Why, well I think you all know why. yes these members do the same rubbing their heads while spraying the same fenders that used to be described and required to hold our repair classifications. How could they do this...? an unaware group of voters...

 

People, members, all the same with no identiy. I can hear it now, we will give every (almost everyone) a raise in pay to become group members or a group leader. No one will hear that the raise will be up to the middle ground of pay, they will "only" hear "raise". Good for some, maybe? How`s that going to feel for designated classification holding member at present? those at the high end of the pay scale?

 

This is really going to get interesting, very soon....

 

Decker