NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) With all do respect to Mustangs, lord knows I have had more than a few and currently AutoX an '82 GT, the Fiesta is a more refined vehicle. It rides better, steers better and has better fit and finish inside. That being said the GT500 is extremely desirable IMO. I would sure hope a new, just refreshed model would have better dynamics and better fit and finish than a model that has been largely untouched for several years. I'm not sure a twist beam rear axle qualifies as "more refined" than the Mustang's 3-link setup though. , rear drive which makes it unmanageable as a daily in bad weather and the Focus is screwed together better in my opinion. My Cobra was my daily driver in all 4 seasons for 7 years. A buddy of mine owns a Cobra in Colorado and it was his daily driver until just a year or two ago! And you're only kidding yourself if you think that with the tires fitted on these ST models they are going to be any better in the snow due to being FWD. And frankly, I was referring to the Fiesta, not the Focus. And I'm not the one who brought up the base Mustang either. That's not any sort of "performance" car either. Edited October 30, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Oh, I'm not saying it does. It fairs well...in its class. Just saying that in my opinion, nothing in that price range, even the ST, really offers what many would consider to be real "performance". my request, go drive one, it may not be , as you deem, a real "performance" car, but dare I say it, I bet its more fun than a majority that would fit that bill....and there in lies the reason for its existance.....and MFRs # of 6.9-60mph ( I bet someone wrings 6.3 out of it,) is probably comparable to many so called "performance" cars of previous decades, not to mention handling... Edited October 30, 2013 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I would sure hope a new, just refreshed model would have better dynamics and better fit and finish than a model that has been largely untouched for several years. I'm not sure a twist beam rear axle qualifies as "more refined" than the Mustang's 3-link setup though. My Cobra was my daily driver in all 4 seasons for 7 years. A buddy of mine owns a Cobra in Colorado and it was his daily driver until just a year or two ago! And you're only kidding yourself if you think that with the tires fitted on these ST models they are going to be any better in the snow due to being FWD. And frankly, I was referring to the Fiesta, not the Focus. And I'm not the one who brought up the base Mustang either. That's not any sort of "performance" car either. ? again, dare I say it, but stock that base Mustang MAY out perform the Cobras you are mentioning?....... Edited October 30, 2013 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 my request, go drive one, it may not be , as you deem, a real "performance" car, but dare I say it, I bet its more fun than a majority that would fit that bill....and there in lies the reason for its existance.....and MFRs # of 6.9-60mph ( I bet someone wrings 6.3 out of it,) is probably comparable to many so called "performance" cars of previous decades, not to mention handling... I don't doubt that it'd be a fun car to drive. Riding my dad's golf cart at full tilt around the yard is pretty fun too though. ? again, dare I say it, but stock that base Mustang MAY out perform the Cobras you are mentioning?....... May out-accelerate it. About it. Of course, you surely know by now that my Cobra is a far cry from stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I don't doubt that it'd be a fun car to drive. Riding my dad's golf cart at full tilt around the yard is pretty fun too though. May out-accelerate it. About it. Of course, you surely know by now that my Cobra is a far cry from stock. you didnt see the word stock in my request?.....just saying, you are showing signs of bias based on size and possibly drive wheels, need I remind you, in that light, I make my daily trip to and from work on something that would show its tail-lights to your cobra relatively easy ( at least in a straight line, Im no rossi ), was less than half the price, doesnt have the traction of 4 contact patches, yet returns 38mpgs....so does that mean your Cobra isnt a performance vehicle?....so, exactly what deems a performance vehicle...just numbers?......WAY too many poo poo anything thats not a certain size and the obligotary RWD platform....they better watch out, some may be embarrased whilst driving their "performance" car....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) you didnt see the word stock in my request?.....just saying, you are showing signs of bias based on size and possibly drive wheels, need I remind you, in that light, I make my daily trip to and from work on something that would show its tail-lights to your cobra relatively easy ( at least in a straight line, Im no rossi ), was less than half the price, doesnt have the traction of 4 contact patches, yet returns 38mpgs....so does that mean your Cobra isnt a performance vehicle?....so, exactly what deems a performance vehicle...just numbers?......WAY too many poo poo anything thats not a certain size and the obligotary RWD platform....they better watch out, some may be embarrased whilst driving their "performance" car....... I'm being biased in favor of vehicles that, you know, perform. If that excludes reasonably priced cars, so be it. There's a reason cars a lot of people would consider to have real performance aren't cheap. And yes, I'm aware the word "performance" is completely arbitrary. And I have not used it in this thread in any matter to suggest otherwise. Simply stated: to me (and many others) what the Fiesta ST (and to a lesser degree the Focus ST) can accomplish is nifty for the price, but it just isn't going to bowl us over. And really?? Comparing motorcycles to cars? Shame on you. Your motorcycle can't outrun a bullet fired from a rifle! And that costs far less, has zero tires, and doesn't use ANY gas at all! Edited October 30, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project-Fairmont Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I would sure hope a new, just refreshed model would have better dynamics and better fit and finish than a model that has been largely untouched for several years. I'm not sure a twist beam rear axle qualifies as "more refined" than the Mustang's 3-link setup though. My Cobra was my daily driver in all 4 seasons for 7 years. A buddy of mine owns a Cobra in Colorado and it was his daily driver until just a year or two ago! And you're only kidding yourself if you think that with the tires fitted on these ST models they are going to be any better in the snow due to being FWD. And frankly, I was referring to the Fiesta, not the Focus. And I'm not the one who brought up the base Mustang either. That's not any sort of "performance" car either. Personally I prefer RWD; it will be interesting to see how the Fiesta ST (FaST?) will get the power down. I drive a corporate provided Regal GS and it simply sucks in terms of traction control; either it spins and bogs or simply bogs just when you need it most (even with all safeguards deactivaed). Summer=Extreme Performance tires, and Winter=Snow Tires, any other way whether its FWD, RWD or AWD is a terrible compromise IMO. Edited October 30, 2013 by Project-Fairmont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Summer=Extreme Performance tires, and Winter=Snow Tires, any other way whether its FWD, RWD or AWD is a compromise IMO. Indeed. With the unpredictable snow around here though (we've hardly gotten any at all the past two winters, but got 50"+ the year prior) it's never going to be worth the investment to me to get a set of dedicated winter tires for any of my cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm being biased in favor of vehicles that, you know, perform. If that excludes reasonably priced cars, so be it. There's a reason cars a lot of people would consider to have real performance aren't cheap. And yes, I'm aware the word "performance" is completely arbitrary. And I have not used it in this thread in any matter to suggest otherwise. Simply stated: to me (and many others) what the Fiesta ST (and to a lesser degree the Focus ST) can accomplish is nifty for the price, but it just isn't going to bowl us over. And really?? Comparing motorcycles to cars? Shame on you. Your motorcycle can't outrun a bullet fired from a rifle! And that costs far less, has zero tires, and doesn't use ANY gas at all! much like comparing a cobra to a Fiesta was my point............................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm being biased in favor of vehicles that, you know, perform. If that excludes reasonably priced cars, so be it. There's a reason cars a lot of people would consider to have real performance aren't cheap. And yes, I'm aware the word "performance" is completely arbitrary. And I have not used it in this thread in any matter to suggest otherwise. Simply stated: to me (and many others) what the Fiesta ST (and to a lesser degree the Focus ST) can accomplish is nifty for the price, but it just isn't going to bowl us over. And really?? Comparing motorcycles to cars? Shame on you. Your motorcycle can't outrun a bullet fired from a rifle! And that costs far less, has zero tires, and doesn't use ANY gas at all! try driving a rifle to and from work...make sure its not loaded.....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I'm being biased in favor of vehicles that, you know, perform. If that excludes reasonably priced cars, so be it. There's a reason cars a lot of people would consider to have real performance aren't cheap. And yes, I'm aware the word "performance" is completely arbitrary. And I have not used it in this thread in any matter to suggest otherwise. Simply stated: to me (and many others) what the Fiesta ST (and to a lesser degree the Focus ST) can accomplish is nifty for the price, but it just isn't going to bowl us over. And really?? Comparing motorcycles to cars? Shame on you. Your motorcycle can't outrun a bullet fired from a rifle! And that costs far less, has zero tires, and doesn't use ANY gas at all! what is considered "real" performance?.....uh oh Nick, youre starting to sound like a Motor Trend writer........pre concieved ideas?...all based on figure 8 , skidpad, 0-60?....FYI, the Fiesta St beat the BRZ around the track in a recent test....IT happens to be the media darling ( well was ) and is considered light weight wit...( drumroll ) RWD... Edited October 30, 2013 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 much like comparing a cobra to a Fiesta was my point............................ Fiesta ST is only marginally less expensive than what I paid for my Cobra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) what is considered "real" performance?.....uh oh Nick, youre starting to sound like a Motor Trend writer........pre concieved ideas?...all based on figure 8 , skidpad, 0-60?....FYI, the Fiesta St beat the BRZ around the track in a recent test....IT happens to be the media darling ( well was ) and is considered light weight wit...( drumroll ) RWD... I doubt the BRZ would get me all worked up either. It's not really a purely tangible thing. When you experience it, you know it's there. Given the Fiesta ST's power and resultant numbers, I can pretty surely exclude it from having that potential. But hey, keep on trying to convince me that I should be impressed by it. It'll surely impress some people. Just not all of us. This whole argument reminds me of the VTEC kids back in the 90's trying to win arguments by bringing up horsepower-per-liter and other such nonsensical things. Edited October 30, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Might check and see if the insurance is different for the V-6 'stang w/performance package and Fiesta ST. When I went to my 2006 Mustang GT from my 2002 SVT Focus, my insurance went DOWN, even though I doubled my HP and engine size....go figure! . Different platform, rear drive which makes it unmanageable as a daily in bad weather and the Focus is screwed together better in my opinion. My 2006 Mustang GT was put together just as well as the SVT Focus, if not better (hell I'll say better since it was in 10K accident and still drives fine with barely any squeaks)...and I'll just assume that newer models are even better then mine... As for bad weather, if your out driving in snow thats higher then 3-4 inches with a Fiesta or Focus ST or even a Mustang GT, your asking for a bad time because all the snow is going to do is stuck in your wheel wells due to lack of clearance in the wheel wells and since the car is slightly lower, turn the bumper into a plow. Heck even with my SHO and AWD (but summer tires at the moment) is prob gonna suck in the snow because the low ground clearance. If you need to get around in the snow, you need a car with good ground clearance like a CUV or SUV with all season tires or winter tires if they make sense. My Fiancee's Escape drove around great in past couple blizzards we had in NJ the past couple winters when we lived there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 If you need to get around in the snow, you need a car with good ground clearance like a CUV or SUV with all season tires or winter tires if they make sense. My Fiancee's Escape drove around great in past couple blizzards we had in NJ the past couple winters when we lived there. Based on the little snow I've driven my Edge in, those "all-season" Pirelli Scorpions are anything but. It did okay in 3-4" at really low speeds, but I wouldn't want to venture out in much more than that without dedicated snow tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I doubt the BRZ would get me all worked up either. It's not really a purely tangible thing. When you experience it, you know it's there. Given the Fiesta ST's power and resultant numbers, I can pretty surely exclude it from having that potential. But hey, keep on trying to convince me that I should be impressed by it. It'll surely impress some people. Just not all of us. This whole argument reminds me of the VTEC kids back in the 90's trying to win arguments by bringing up horsepower-per-liter and other such nonsensical things. well, at least you are honest about pre concieved perceptions, I will give you that...Ive had a fair share of different cars, some would probably fit your bill...seriously though, the latest iterations of FWD hot hatches raised my eyebrows and blew a few perceptions out the door..AND injected some serious fun that had been missing from cars, that on paper at least, were on pedestels....cross over that line Nick, you may be pleasently surprized as I was....not trying to convince at all nick, just prodding you to step out of your safety net....the whole argument reminds me of Dual Throat Weber backyard mechanics trying to convince everyone Fuel injection was a fad...lol & touche! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Based on the little snow I've driven my Edge in, those "all-season" Pirelli Scorpions are anything but. It did okay in 3-4" at really low speeds, but I wouldn't want to venture out in much more than that without dedicated snow tires. dont bang the rims up....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 One of the reasons I had maintained an Escape during the years the kids were growing up was that no matter the weather if I needed to go, I had to go. Now that they're grown, its less of an issue and with fuel prices the way they've been and a large increase in my commute fuel expense took precedence over the occasional bad weather. If it gets that bad I'll just stay home. But yea, AWD is ultimately the best thing to have with snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Fiesta ST is only marginally less expensive than what I paid for my Cobra. lol, scary isnt it, my 5.0 1988 Mustang coupe STICKERED for $12888........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) well, at least you are honest about pre concieved perceptions, I will give you that...Ive had a fair share of different cars, some would probably fit your bill...seriously though, the latest iterations of FWD hot hatches raised my eyebrows and blew a few perceptions out the door..AND injected some serious fun that had been missing from cars, that on paper at least, were on pedestels....cross over that line Nick, you may be pleasently surprized as I was....not trying to convince at all nick, just prodding you to step out of your safety net....the whole argument reminds me of Dual Throat Weber backyard mechanics trying to convince everyone Fuel injection was a fad...lol & touche! One must distinguish between a car that is "fun" and one that "performs". See my earlier golf cart reference. I have no doubt that these ST cars can be fun, but they don't stack up against the best that's out there. It can go to the extreme though, like in the episode of Top Gear where James May was driving a race-prepped Aston Martin DB9 with no sound deadening or A/C through the Alps and ended up hating it by the end of the trip. dont bang the rims up....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Yeah, unfortunately I curb rashed one of them pretty good shortly after I bought it while still familiarizing myself with the dimensions. It's something I can repair it myself though. Just been too lazy. Edited October 30, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 lol, scary isnt it, my 5.0 1988 Mustang coupe STICKERED for $12888........ 150% increase in 25 years. What's up with that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 150% increase in 25 years. What's up with that?? Of course, that '88 Mustang didn't have much in the way of amenities that are now a given to be standard today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 One must distinguish between a car that is "fun" and one that "performs". See my earlier golf cart reference. I have no doubt that these ST cars can be fun, but they don't stack up against the best that's out there. It can go to the extreme though, like in the episode of Top Gear where Richard Hammond was driving a race-prepped Aston Martin DB9 with no sound deadening or A/C through the Alps and ended up hating it by the end of the trip. Yeah, unfortunately I curb rashed one of them pretty good shortly after I bought it while still familiarizing myself with the dimensions. It's something I can repair it myself though. Just been too lazy. I would say performance wise, unless you move WAY up the $ scale, that mid 6's to 60, braking skidpad and track times would all be relatively good on the fiesta St....and if you didnt know it was a FWD hot hatch, that bias would be diluted.....especially given the entrance price....all about perception, hell use the same specs 10 years ago and the St could have been the coming of Christ... .,.. as for your wheels, they are OUTRAGEOUS to replace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) 150% increase in 25 years. What's up with that?? lol, how I mangaed with no ABS brakes, no heated seats, no voice controls, hell did I even have an airbag?.....I have no idea...Im a SURVIVOR baby! Edited October 30, 2013 by Deanh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I would say performance wise, unless you move WAY up the $ scale, that mid 6's to 60, braking skidpad and track times would all be relatively good on the fiesta St....and if you didnt know it was a FWD hot hatch, that bias would be diluted.....especially given the entrance price....all about perception, hell use the same specs 10 years ago and the St could have been the coming of Christ... .,.. as for your wheels, they are OUTRAGEOUS to replace... Oh, we've certainly come a long way when the Fiesta ST's performance just doesn't cut it for some of us. It definitely would have been very nice several years ago. I guess I've grown out of it though. I doubt I'll ever look at a car that inexpensive again for my own use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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