2015 Chevy Colorado

[jpd80]

I just looked up I-4 and V6 Tacoma (21/25 & 16/21) and Frontier (17/23 & 16/21), there doesn't seem to be much difference in fuel economy

between them and the V6 versions of F150 (17/23) and Silverado (18/24) - probably why Ford for one is not that interested.

Edited November 29, 2013 by jpd80

[chevys]

I just looked up I-4 and V6 Tacoma (21/25 & 16/21) and Frontier (17/23 & 16/21), there doesn't seem to be much difference in fuel economy

between them and the V6 versions of F150 (17/23) and Silverado (18/24) - probably why Ford for one is not that interested.

The fundamental problem with this argument to me is that you are comparing ancient drive trains to the latest greatest from Ford/Gm. Now it is what it is at this moment but lets see what the Colly can deliver. The other elephant in the room is price. Once again, if you dont need a full size there is probably 6K you can keep in your pocket.

[PRM]

 

When a very large corporation that makes billions in profits annually does something that seems stupid, which seems more likely:

 

That they know more than you do, or that you know more than they do?

I get that and already stated that I understand they made that decision. No need to chime in with the pretentious response.

[PRM]

The fundamental problem with this argument to me is that you are comparing ancient drive trains to the latest greatest from Ford/Gm. Now it is what it is at this moment but lets see what the Colly can deliver. The other elephant in the room is price. Once again, if you dont need a full size there is probably 6K you can keep in your pocket.

I agree. Put the same transmission and engine improvements into a chassis that weighs 800-1000lbs less and has less frontal area and you'll get the same relative benefits.

[RichardJensen]

I get that and already stated that I understand they made that decision. No need to chime in with the pretentious response.

 

You also said this: "They could have made it suitable for US sales and gained the benefits"

 

Which suggests that you think Ford made a mistake.

[RichardJensen]

The fundamental problem with this argument to me is that you are comparing ancient drive trains

 

It'd be wise to ask why the powertrains in these vehicles haven't been updated.

[PRM]

 

You also said this: "They could have made it suitable for US sales and gained the benefits"

 

Which suggests that you think Ford made a mistake.

I does not suggest I think Ford made a mistake. The context was that Ford has done that with other vehicles (Fiesta, Focus, etc.) and he implied that was not an option for gaining efficiencies with a smaller truck. I merely pointed out that it was an option going back to the redesign of the Ranger. Ford chose not to. I'm not questioning their reasons. Their business decision does not work for me personally, and for one of the rare moments in my life I no longer own a Ford. But that does not make it a mistake on the part of Ford. I do think the declining sales of small and mid-sized trucks is due, in part, to the lack of a modern offering. How can there be sales when there is NO restyled small or mid-sized truck with a quality interior and modern drive train? You can't expect sales of something that does not exist. Without any competition, Toyota can sell a reasonable number of Tacomas while investing practically nothing in innovation. Ford has concluded that even if they did offer a modern rendition in the U.S. that this is not a market to pursue. Fine.

[akirby]

I do think the declining sales of small and mid-sized trucks is due, in part, to the lack of a modern offering. How can there be sales when there is NO restyled small or mid-sized truck with a quality interior and modern drive train? You can't expect sales of something that does not exist. Without any competition, Toyota can sell a reasonable number of Tacomas while investing practically nothing in innovation.

 

This is such a red herring. If people wanted to buy a small truck for all the reasons mentioned before - mostly smaller size, easier to park and navigate, etc. - then they would have bought a Ranger or a Tacoma or a Frontier or the old Colorado/Canyon whether it had a new drivetrain or not. There were - and still are - plenty of decent choices.

 

The fact is that buyers moved away from small trucks to other vehicles - mainly small crossovers, suvs and more fuel efficient cars and hybrids. And no drivetrain improvements would have changed that.

 

Rationalize all you want but if it was as simple as adding new powertrains or making styling improvements to get sales then somebody would have done it a long time ago.

[RichardJensen]

But that does not make it a mistake on the part of Ford.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Please remember that we can't read your mind, and that the only thing that we have to go on here is what you type.

[jpd80]

So in effect, GM is developing a specific range of Mid sized trucks for North America based on the fact that an unspecified number of buyers

would chose this product over those offered by competitors and the many and varied Utilities and vans available through GM and other

manufacturers, that all these buyers carry some load that cannot be handled by an SUV or a closed van...

 

and that buyers of said vehicles want to save at least $6,000 compared any of the present alternatives.

 

Can anyone see a problem with that "business plan"?

Edited November 29, 2013 by jpd80

[akirby]

So in effect, GM is developing a specific range of Mid sized trucks for North America based on the fact that an unspecified number of buyers

would chose this product over those offered by competitors and the many and varied Utilities and vans available through GM and other

manufacturers, that all these buyers carry some load that cannot be handled by an SUV or a closed van...

 

and that buyers of said vehicles want to save at least $6,000 compared any of the present alternatives.

 

Can anyone see a problem with that "business plan"?

 

I honestly don't believe that GM even considers that Colorado will steal Silverado sales at lower profit. It sounds like they're still doing stand alone business cases (can we build and sell this one vehicle at a profit) rather than looking at it from a comprehensive corporate standpoint (is GM better off with or without it).

[jpd80]

 

I honestly don't believe that GM even considers that Colorado will steal Silverado sales at lower profit. It sounds like they're still doing stand alone business cases (can we build and sell this one vehicle at a profit) rather than looking at it from a comprehensive corporate standpoint (is GM better off with or without it).

Exactly

It's as though GM hasn't factored in any chance of internal competition with Silverado or any of their Utilities

Edited November 30, 2013 by jpd80

[#1FordFan]

 

I honestly don't believe that GM even considers that Colorado will steal Silverado sales at lower profit. It sounds like they're still doing stand alone business cases (can we build and sell this one vehicle at a profit) rather than looking at it from a comprehensive corporate standpoint (is GM better off with or without it.

That matters less to GM Now that they have shifted Silverado production to Mexico and ramped up the profit per vehicle numbers.

[jpd80]

Wouldn't GM be pissed if Ford delivered a slightly smaller version of the new F150 as a F100...

 

Ford probably won't do that but but it's an example of a better executed plan...

Edited January 3, 2014 by jpd80

[Fgts]

This much crow because Ford is not in this market?. Some of you bring up "F150 can cover the market with better FE".

 

Not everyone need a Kenworth size pick-up especially if you live in a large city with limited parking but need somthing more robust then a wannabe CUV.

 

If Ford is not in the market, fine but dont spill tears over it. While you at it fault Benz and Bmw for having so many rwd sedans vs none from Lincoln.

[jpd80]

It looks like an awful lot more people want a decent sized truck than a mid sized one.

 

Toyota is the lead seller in this market, they are in no hurry to deliver a new platform.... for a very good reason.

 

 

 

If Ford is not in the market, fine but dont spill tears over it.. While you at it fault Benz and Bmw for having so many rwd sedans vs none from Lincoln.

 

Ford won't be the one who is butt sore because their half ton truck is on the bump with CAFE.

 

And Call me when BMW decides to build a volume half ton truck.

Edited January 3, 2014 by jpd80

[jpd80]

I know it sounds stupid to leave a sector vacant but sometimes doing that allows Ford to build out sales with an existing product.

F Series out sold Silverado and Sierra combined by around 14,000 last month, even if GM matches Ford by adding Colorado,

the added cost of three different vehicle groups is more than Ford's single brand F Series...

[jpd80]

“Our strategy is simple: meet the needs of the broadest possible customer base, and let them choose precisely the right truck to meet their needs,” said Mark Reuss, General Motors executive vice president and president of GM North America. “The all-new Colorado benefits from the solid foundation established by the Silverado, and it reinvents the midsize truck while reinvigorating the segment at the same time.”

 

The new Colorado was developed for the North American truck customer, with distinctive design, comfort and connectivity features, including segment firsts such as available forward collision alert and lane departure warning.

 

 

So GM has developed specific version of Colorado for North America but still does not know which versions will be the prime sellers.

That to me is a fundamentally flawed business plan that is volume centric and profitability clearly a secondary concern......

 

Colorado will most likely have similar fuel economy to Equinox I-4 and V6.

Equinox I-4: 22mpg / 32mpg

Equinox V6: 17mpg / 24mpg

Edited January 5, 2014 by jpd80

[the_spaniard]

The loaded versions of the import mid-sizers both come in at $30K, with the horrible fuel economy and pretty asstacular tech. I don't know how old the Tacoma is, but the Frontier came out in 2005 and everything based on the Titan (Frontier, Xterra) has been on the Nissan chopping block for ages. There will likely NOT be another Xterra.

 

The Frontier has seen a stay of execution due to recent increase in sales. That does not mean that Nissan will throw a ton of money into a new Frontier. At some point rumors were being kicked around that it would actually downsize....would love to have seen that.

 

Toyota moved 160K Tacomas in the US last year, Nissan just under 60K Frontiers. Chevy sold 3400 Colorados last year (only 2 sold in Dec!) and GM sold a whopping 929 Canyons. I think GM took a big hit from the 5-cylinder fiasco of years back.

 

My take: VERY risky market. The imports have it buttoned up with old hardware, so there is little risk for them right now. This is a huge risk for GM, and I don't really understand the reasoning behind it. The Canyon saw single digit sales from September through December. I don't know how this truck survived the bankruptcy.

 

The last year of Ranger sales (2012) Ford sold just under 20K Rangers and killed it. Chevy soldiers on on 4329 sales last year and invests in an all new truck?

 

I think the only way to make money with a small truck is to release a small/compact pickup. There is little incentive to buy a mid-size when the prices are so close (and V6/V8 FE is really close-sometimes better with modern V8s). Someone puts out a compact pickup that bases at 16K and loads out at $22-23K (if that can even be done) is the only way to really see if there is a market.

 

Right now the total midsize market from the numbers above is just under 225000. Lets face it, GM is not going to unseat Toyota, so that leaves you with 64000 sales IF the Frontier goes away and you don't lose customers. Is that a good return on investment for a brand new, USA-only vehicle design? If the Frontier stays, GM will have a tough fight ahead of it.

 

I think Ford is right to stay out of this market for now. I always prefer compacts/midsizes for my truck/SUVs, but then again I am also a coupe/2-seater car fan.... niche demographics. If Nissan decides to keep the Frontier and downsizes it to a very affordable compact (very doubtful) then that will be the real test of the small-truck market appeal. Ford is doing too much right to take a chance that big. And yeah, I have a little Ranger I bought used that has been extremely useful for my place in PR, so I am a fan.

 

EDIT> BTW, if anyone is interested I pulled the sales data from this site.

Edited January 5, 2014 by the_spaniard