PRM

The OP said pre-production, so I took that to mean the camo clad versions driving around. Agree they wouldn't show one that appeared finished.

Leaks?? How do you "leak" a vehicle they have officially announced they are going to produce and is driving around on public roads? Assuming it would be the same trucks driving around in CO, What would be leaked that isn't already out there?

There have been sightings of what are thought to be Rangers driving around in CO. Not sure why some feel this is so implausible. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2017/05/spied-2019-ford-ranger-crew-cab.html http://www.tfltruck.com/2017/06/finally-video-2019-ford-ranger-prototype-public-highway/

I will be interested in seeing how this sells. Not many people need the offroad capability it brings, but the cool factor does typically sell. Look at the Raptor, who needs that capability? The ZR2 brings somewhat the same fun factor but in a truck that ought to still get respectable mileage with either the new V6/8-speed or Duramax diesel options. I like where they went with this model giving it very useful capabilities such as the locking front and rear diffs, good clearance, good tires and yet a nod to practicality. http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/what-really-makes-the-the-chevy-colorado-zr2-so-impress-1789066024 http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/nov/laas/1115-zr2.html

Other than a new engine, new transmission, new interior, new exterior, and a new frame it was just like the 2015...

You may be right, I don't know the answer. I really meant sales as a segment though. There wasn't much in the way of quality products and thus don't think it was considered. Now, with some products in the segment sales seem to be picking up. Respectable anyway. For the Taco, that is also a 6.5% increase on top of what GM and Honda have added to the segment. Ford has chosen to keep all its North American eggs in the F150 basket, time will tell if that was the right decision.

The Tacoma was completely redesigned for 2016. My sense has always been that small/mid-size truck sales waned because nobody made a quality product. No product = no sales. The Ranger was essentially the same truck for decades! Name any product that stays the same that long and maintains sales. Also, t's absurd to think the bottom of the truck segment starts at the F150/1500 Silverado level. Every other segment, cars, SUVs, Crossovers, has a much broader offering for the consumers. Now, manufacturers are building good products in the mid-size range and they are selling. I'll be interested in seeing how the Chevy Colorado ZR2 sells once its released. Definitely ups the cool factor.

Nice gains. Now, make one 10% smaller, use the 2.7EB (or diesel), make everything lighter to accommodate 7-8k towing, and gain a bunch more for those of us who don't need all the F150 capabilities!

So, good news, Ford will hire more workers. Bad news, the net gain will take place primarily in Mexico. Seems to be elements of truth on both sides. I'd like to have heard Trump say he'd change the business climate in the US to enable Ford to profitably keep those jobs in the US. Likewise, Fields isn't telling the story of the jobs going to Mexico, rather just countering the idea that those particular worker in Michigan won't be losing their jobs.

I guess I'm confused. Fields did say they were moving small car production to Mexico. However, he also stated they would build other vehicles (crossovers and pickups according to article) at the plants now producing small cars, thus those people would not be fired. It appears to me the net jobs is shifting to Mexico, unless some vehicles are being moved from Mexico to the US. I would have preferred Fields said they were producing small cars in (insert US location here). Where are the crossovers or pickups that are going to be built at the former small car plant being built now? Or, is that new production of the Bronco/Ranger?

Yes, F-150s don't fit in most suburban garages. Not in my experience anyway. I'd like to see Ford own the mid-size segment. I want a really cool mid-size Raptor!

I do believe that very few people 'need' the capability of an F150. It's just become a game of one upsmanship in the industry where bigger always wins the test. I don't see much consideration for what people actually need to do. 'Could' vs. 'should' is purely in the eyes of the beholder. If you were to map out all the tasks people use their vehicles for it would be a very small percentage that require an F150. A few years ago when shopping Sport Tracs I actually listed everything I'd done for 5-6 years with vehicles. Turns out I could do everything with the ST. There were a few efforts that required two trips vice one to the dump, but no major restrictions. When task frequency was factored in, commuting to work, the mileage, ease of parking, fitting in a garage all started to weigh heavily. But building decks, remodeling bathrooms, plumbing supplies, landscaping supplies such as brick pavers, concrete, gravel and sand, renting aerators, loaning mowers and snowblowers, deer and elk hunting, camping, trips to outer banks, hauling dirtbike to track, skiing, picking up furniture (chairs, tables, mattresses, sofa), trips to dump, towing utility trailers, towing a 21' RV, borrowing a log splitter, ... you get the idea. I guess all I'm saying is there is ample room for a mid size truck in the market. The evolution of the F150 and others has made room in both cost and capability for the mid size truck. And, for a period, there were no decent smaller trucks to buy, thus no sales. Now, with viable options, people are buying them.

I don't claim to know what the right size is. My guess is you are right that the Ranger (or whatever they call it) should be smaller. My intuition is slightly larger than previous Rangers, but definitely cover the small end of the midsize market. I've had a couple Sport Tracs and that is a really nice size vehicle. Big enough to be comfortable for four adults and carry what I needed, without feeling big. I know my current F150 feels big and is a PIA at times. It's also very useful at times. I have driven a Colorado and Tacoma, in addition to Sport Tracs, and they really feel much, much smaller than an F150. More than the spec sheet would lead you to think. I understand Ford doesn't want to split their F150 sales. From what I've read (and I certainly can't verify), GM has not lost much if any full size sales due to adding the Canyon/Colorado. By targeting the small end of the mid-size market Ford should be able to retain their F150 sales. Regardless, the mid-size market is showing signs of life and Ford will miss sales if they don't participate.

If you can make a 7/8ths truck that does all you need it to do, and fits in a garage, is easier to park, theoretically lighter, more aerodynamic, and gets better mileage, why would you buy the larger one?

^^ I realize that. I meant to suggest that these segments are rather vague and not very meaningful. Thus suggesting that including mid-size is as valid as the current defined full size "segment". Regardless, Ford and GM each build trucks, and while they brand and segment differently, they intend to sell a product to the customer. The total number reflects their success, or failure, in that endeavor. The linked article broke it up enough to get a sense for where each is doing well.

What's stupid about it? It's trucks for GM vs. trucks for Ford. That each have chosen different business models is irrelevant. If you want to break it down to full size trucks, fine, they presented that information clearly. What's the problem? But to limit truck sales to only what Ford builds would be stupid. And again, Ford classifying everything from the F150 through F450 is a rather broad definition of a "segment". Hardly a single segment of buyers. If anything, the mid-size trucks and F150/1500 class trucks would be a much more meaningful segment. At least it comprises alternatives a single buyer may consider.

They are very clear about what they are presenting so I have no issue with it. If you want to look at a manufacturer, it makes sense to combine them. It's not like F-Series is one truck, so without digging into the numbers you really can't tell how one truck (F150) contributes to the picture. I would argue a Colorado is probably closer to a 1500 Silverado than an F450 is to an F150. GM made the decision to produce midsize trucks, why shouldn't' they get credit for those sales if looking at GM truck sales?

I was surprised when I talked trucks to an acquaintance who has had a couple Titans. He absolutely beats the living crap out of them off roading and they have been exceptionally durable, and capable. They also have the ability to chain up all four wheels for accessing some pretty remote back country in the snow and mud. You can't do that with an F150 thanks to the front suspension design. And the clearance on the F150 is nothing impressive (Raptor aside). I don't consider the Titan as refined, but his example convinced me it's a reasonably capable truck. The new one I have no experience with, except to say I find it ugly.

That's a lot of capability! Short of larger volume or the size to tow larger size trailers, it would meets most user's requirements and would certainly meet any of my needs.

2015 F150 SuperCrew 4x4 3.5 EB. Cloth, no nav. Truth in advertising, it was actually closer to 30% off MSRP of $46k by the time discounts and rebates were factored in. Also depends on how you consider freight. Anyway, close to 500mi on it and averaging just over 21mpg according to the computer. Very pleased with that considering the amount of stop and go commuting traffic. Happy to be a Ford owner again.

I can say from experience they were willing to offer crazy deals at the end of October. Had no intention of buying a new F150, but when they make an offer SIGNIFICANTLY below the used prices its hard to turn down. Like 33% off MSRP...

I seriously considered one. For me, they got the size just right as it can do about anything a typical homeowner would want a truck to do and yet it is easy to drive in the city, park, and it fits in garages. Interior quality is only fair in my opinion. Kind of cheap feeling. I think their real impact on the market has yet to occur. Its the that diesel could really be a game changer. It will be interesting to see what their sales do once the 2.8 Duramaxes are available. 30+ mpg, and that level of utility is an intriguing combination.

Thanks for sharing. I'll be interested in what the F150 incentives add up to.

As a two time Sport Trac owner ('04 and '08) I'd love to see a more modern rendition. They are like a Swiss Army knife as a vehicle.

I really didn't think cross shopping the F150 with the Canyon/Colorado was much of a stretch.... 'Fun' is as valid a criteria as I've seen! I bought an Infinity G35 based on that once. Didn't take long to realize it wasn't very useful for trips to Lowe's.