Has the Hurrican been cancelled again???

[Blue II]

The 5.8/6.2 Triton (Hurricane) has not been cancelled.

 

A V-8 will not be built off the 3.5. It would be too long for FWD applications.

 

The 5.4 and 6.8 will eventually go away.

 

A 6.7 in house Diesel is in the planning stages to replace the Navistar.

[mkoesel]

A V-8 will not be built off the 3.5. It would be too long for FWD applications.

 

And yet I cannot imagine it being much longer than any other small V8 designed to compete against the 350hp+ V8s already available in this class. How long is the Volvo 4.4L V8? And the Duratec 35 V6?

 

All this talk I hear of a new V8 for FWD applications seems like just that - talk... :shrug:

[RichardJensen]

They have and are still building frontwheel drive with 90deg V8s.

Ford's not.

 

Also, I believe there are 60 degree V8s with offset rod journals that mate the 60 deg V to a 90 deg crank.

[7Mary3]

I still call BS on the whole Mod motor program being compromised for a low production car that was known as the Continental. That would be monumentally stupid for Ford to do. Then again this is Ford we are talking about

 

That's exactly the story I heard when the Modular/Triton first came out- it was designed for the Lincoln Continental and a potential FWD Crown Vic./Marquis/Town Car replacement that never saw the light of day. Disaster struck when Jac Nassar mandated that Ford only needed only one family of V-8 engine, and since the Modular would work in FWD car applications, it became 'The' Ford V-8. Engineers were put to the task to make it acceptable for light trucks. The Modular had been designed for the shortest overall length (crank pulley to flywheel) possible, and that is why the bore centers are so small. 5.4L is just about all the engine is capable of displacement-wise from a production standpoint. Ford engine designers had to resort to adding 2 cylinders to get the displacement close to 7L. That presented problems as the Triton V-10 had vibration issues and required a balance shaft in the right head. All in all, the 3 valve heads have finally made the Tritons competitive, but there is no getting around that they are a compromised design. I am hopeful that the 'Hurricane' will be more of a real truck engine.

[7Mary3]

60 Degree V-8's: Yes, they are not balanced like 60 degree V-6's and 90 degree V-8's. G.M. did build a 60 degree V-8 from 1966-72, and I doubt many of you have ever heard of it. It was the GMC 637, a heavy truck engine that was built in both gasoline and diesel versions. It was based on the truck-only GMC 60 degree V-6's. GMC basically added 2 cylinders and a balance shaft to the 478 V-6. The gasoline 637 made a ridiculous amount of torque (something like 600+ ft. lbs.), the diesel a bit less (it was naturally aspirated-no turbo).

[Blue II]

That's exactly the story I heard when the Modular/Triton first came out- it was designed for the Lincoln Continental and a potential FWD Crown Vic./Marquis/Town Car replacement that never saw the light of day. Disaster struck when Jac Nassar mandated that Ford only needed only one family of V-8 engine, and since the Modular would work in FWD car applications, it became 'The' Ford V-8. Engineers were put to the task to make it acceptable for light trucks. The Modular had been designed for the shortest overall length (crank pulley to flywheel) possible, and that is why the bore centers are so small. 5.4L is just about all the engine is capable of displacement-wise from a production standpoint. Ford engine designers had to resort to adding 2 cylinders to get the displacement close to 7L. That presented problems as the Triton V-10 had vibration issues and required a balance shaft in the right head. All in all, the 3 valve heads have finally made the Tritons competitive, but there is no getting around that they are a compromised design. I am hopeful that the 'Hurricane' will be more of a real truck engine.

 

This is all true. Nasser's Modular Mafia destroyed the Windsor and Lima (460) lines to insure the Modular would become the V-8 replacement before anyone could challenge him. The newer gen Windsor was to have been a 6.0 liter and the 460 was to have been an 8.2 liter.

[Hemiman]

60 Degree V-8's: Yes, they are not balanced like 60 degree V-6's and 90 degree V-8's. G.M. did build a 60 degree V-8 from 1966-72, and I doubt many of you have ever heard of it. It was the GMC 637, a heavy truck engine that was built in both gasoline and diesel versions. It was based on the truck-only GMC 60 degree V-6's. GMC basically added 2 cylinders and a balance shaft to the 478 V-6. The gasoline 637 made a ridiculous amount of torque (something like 600+ ft. lbs.), the diesel a bit less (it was naturally aspirated-no turbo).

 

 

Those GMC's were real monsters. They even had a V-12 version of that series.

 

http://www.6066gmcguy.org/EngineData.htm

 

Ford also had a 60 deg V-8. The GAA tank engine that powered the M-4A3 series of armored vehicles during and after WWII. This was One heck of an advanced design.

 

http://www.enginehistory.org/Features/Tanks/FordGAA_1.JPG

[Bluecon]

Ford's not.

 

Also, I believe there are 60 degree V8s with offset rod journals that mate the 60 deg V to a 90 deg crank.

Fords not doing a lot of things.

 

I cannot think of any 60deg V8 except the Yamaha.

Does it have offset journals and balance shaft?

[RichardJensen]

Fords not doing a lot of things.

 

I cannot think of any 60deg V8 except the Yamaha.

Does it have offset journals and balance shaft?

The 3.4L SHO V8 had offset journalis.

[Bluecon]

The 3.4L SHO V8 had offset journalis.

Yamaha

[old_fairmont_wagon]

The only reason for doing a V8 off of the Duratec 35 would be to get rid of Yamaha as a supplier. It makes sense that Ford likely doesn't want to do another FWD v8. If this is really the case, then there is no need to keep the MOD the way it is because at least somewhere along the line, it was destined for a FWD vehicle.

 

However, if Ford does keep AM, Jaguar, and LR, then a V-12 off of the D35 makes mountains of sense.

 

I do think that after the Hurricane program has finished, ford needs to go to work on a new V8 that will live in the 4.0 - 5.0L range, be as compact as possible, and be class competitive and FWD capable. They probably also need to borrow some of Volvo's research for the new I-6, lop off two cylinders, and come up with a follow on engine family for the D20 and 23 4 cylinders. Something that displaces up to 2.5L instead of 2.3L.

[Sizzler]

The only reason for doing a V8 off of the Duratec 35 would be to get rid of Yamaha as a supplier. It makes sense that Ford likely doesn't want to do another FWD v8. If this is really the case, then there is no need to keep the MOD the way it is because at least somewhere along the line, it was destined for a FWD vehicle.

 

However, if Ford does keep AM, Jaguar, and LR, then a V-12 off of the D35 makes mountains of sense.

 

I do think that after the Hurricane program has finished, ford needs to go to work on a new V8 that will live in the 4.0 - 5.0L range, be as compact as possible, and be class competitive and FWD capable. They probably also need to borrow some of Volvo's research for the new I-6, lop off two cylinders, and come up with a follow on engine family for the D20 and 23 4 cylinders. Something that displaces up to 2.5L instead of 2.3L.

 

You know, everyone makes adding cylinders to a block seem the simplest thing. So why is it so hard to add cylinders AND widen the valley. It's just two banks of cylinders. What is there about the molds that prevents adding in 30 degrees worth of angle between the blocks while tacking on an extra cylinder to each bank?

[Hemiman]

You know, everyone makes adding cylinders to a block seem the simplest thing. So why is it so hard to add cylinders AND widen the valley. It's just two banks of cylinders. What is there about the molds that prevents adding in 30 degrees worth of angle between the blocks while tacking on an extra cylinder to each bank?

 

 

It's more than just the casting of the block. The tooling used to machine the casting is set up for the specific V angle. Adding length is do-able, changing V angles requires a whole new set up for the machine tooling to work. Now, maybe things have changed and are more flexible, but I doubt it.

 

ford needs to go to work on a new V8 that will live in the 4.0 - 5.0L range, be as compact as possible, and be class competitive and FWD capable. They probably also need to borrow some of Volvo's research for the new I-6, lop off two cylinders, and come up with a follow on engine family for the D20 and 23 4 cylinders. Something that displaces up to 2.5L instead of 2.3L.

 

They already have the perfect engine for this. The LIMA V-8, currently 3.9 - 4.2 Litre.

 

For your 4 cyl, I would use one bank of the V-8. Leaning over @ 45deg, alows for good packaging and a lower hood line. BMW has done this for years.

Edited August 25, 2006 by Hemiman

[Sizzler]

It's more than just the casting of the block. The tooling used to machine the casting is set up for the specific V angle. Adding leangth is do-able, changing V angles requires a whole new set up for the machine tooling to work. Now, maybe things have changed and are more flexible, but I doubt it.

 

Do you mean to tell me that in this day of xx CNC stations, programming a tool to run the extra length of an added cylinder is easier than telling the tool to start at/work at a different angle?

 

Just what's the point of all this investment in flexible manufacturing?

 

And it's not like there's anything critical in those extra 30 degrees, no camshaft tunnel; any oil galleries can move along with the two banks, you'd basically be adding extra material across the top,front and back of the valley (and making room to shove an alternator or something else back into the valley).

[SysEng]

The 5.8/6.2 Triton (Hurricane) has not been cancelled.

 

A V-8 will not be built off the 3.5. It would be too long for FWD applications.

 

The 5.4 and 6.8 will eventually go away.

 

A 6.7 in house Diesel is in the planning stages to replace the Navistar.

 

 

Wow, not very consistent engineering now is it :shrug: . This reminds me of the Scobby Doo cartoon. You know where he runs of in 8 different directions while tied to his tail :fan:

 

At least I suggested a consistent cylinder geometry and standard bore spacing. This looks like bureaucracy run amok.

[goldfinger4]

Heard at work that the 5.8 is delayed for variable displacement technology (4,6,8) since GM and DC have it ....

[igor]

Wow, not very consistent engineering now is it :shrug: . This reminds me of the Scobby Doo cartoon. You know where he runs of in 8 different directions while tied to his tail :fan:

 

At least I suggested a consistent cylinder geometry and standard bore spacing. This looks like bureaucracy run amok.

 

this looks like a new engine family in development that makes some older ones obsolete ...

 

Igor

Edited August 25, 2006 by igor

[Bluecon]

They already have the perfect engine for this. The LIMA V-8, currently 3.9 - 4.2 Litre.

Why aren't they using this engine?

 

Heard at work that the 5.8 is delayed for variable displacement technology (4,6,8) since GM and DC have it ....

It is relatively easy to convert the overhead valve engines to variable displacement technology.

A lot more difficult with overhead cam. Honda does it with their V6.

[Sizzler]

It is relatively easy to convert the overhead valve engines to variable displacement technology.

A lot more difficult with overhead cam. Honda does it with their V6.

 

Honda's VTEC system was introduced in 1989. Aren't the patents expired on it yet?

 

Good system. Just requires good manufacturing practices to produce and rely on.

 

Why recreate the wheel? It's been around for pushing 20 years (by the time the Hurricane actually shows up) and seems to be widely regarded as an excellent engineering feat. Make it in house. License someone to make it. Whatever.

 

I did not know that a big component of DOD systems was the exhaust: managing the exhaust tones so that the change from 8 to 4 cylinders isn't noticable to the driver. Also, dual path/stage intakes to boost torque for the smaller-displacement versions...

[silvrsvt]

Honda's VTEC system was introduced in 1989. Aren't the patents expired on it yet?

 

 

VTEC and DOD systems are compeletely different animals!

 

VTEC=Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control

[silvrsvt]

Oh more information from themustangsource.com

 

Word is the 5.4 4v orginally planned was scrapped in favor of a new engine/series of OHC/2V (no 4v) motors named, you guessed it, "Boss". They will be between 5.8 and 6.4L in size and are based off the now defunct (it's 100% dead) Hurricane series. As you might have guessed along with the displacement bump, bore spacing is also much larger than in Modulars.

 

I think they're going to make a lot of people happy. A large bore OHC motor isn't all bad, despite the fact it only has two valves (difference being two large valves because of the bore), remember the 427 cammer?

I have to belive that some higher tech features like variable valve timing and possibly direct injection will make their way onto these motors (this is purely speculation on my part) as they will be needed to pass stricter emissions regs in the years to come.

 

I would also have to belive that at some point a 4v head would show up. Remember when the 2v Modulars debuted in MY '91 (late '90) in Crown Vics/Grand Marquis/Town Cars. 4Vs didn't follow until MY '93 (late '92) when the Mark VIIIs came out.

 

The king is dead, Long live the king?

[Sizzler]

VTEC and DOD systems are compeletely different animals!

 

VTEC=Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control

 

 

The way you deactivate a cylinder is by controlling the cylinder's valve (and fuel and spark). But basically, you don't LIFT the valve (...and Lift Electronic Control)

[Sizzler]

Word is the 5.4 4v orginally planned was scrapped in favor of a new engine/series of OHC/2V (no 4v) motors named, you guessed it, "Boss". They will be between 5.8 and 6.4L in size and are based off the now defunct (it's 100% dead) Hurricane series. As you might have guessed along with the displacement bump, bore spacing is also much larger than in Modulars.

 

I think they're going to make a lot of people happy. A large bore OHC motor isn't all bad, despite the fact it only has two valves (difference being two large valves because of the bore), remember the 427 cammer?

I have to belive that some higher tech features like variable valve timing and possibly direct injection will make their way onto these motors (this is purely speculation on my part) as they will be needed to pass stricter emissions regs in the years to come.

 

I would also have to belive that at some point a 4v head would show up. Remember when the 2v Modulars debuted in MY '91 (late '90) in Crown Vics/Grand Marquis/Town Cars. 4Vs didn't follow until MY '93 (late '92) when the Mark VIIIs came out.

 

 

Maybe my reading comprehension has dropped since I took the SAT's, but "new engine/series of OHC/2V (no 4v) motors named, you guessed it, "Boss". They will be between 5.8 and 6.4L in size and are based off the now defunct (it's 100% dead) Hurricane series" doesn't sound like the Hurricane is dead. Just renamed and being reworked (for VVT and DOD?). If something is based on something that doesn't exist yet, then that something is just an engineering upgrade of what is being worked on, isn't it? Unless they're totally resizing and reengineering the Hurricane? But then "based off...the Hurricane series"? I think someone is trying to create buzz by twisting a rumor.

 

As for comparisons to the old Cammer? You all remember that that engine had (true) hemi chambers? So two valves worked well, though with a lot of unburned gasoline flowing right from intake to exhaust valve. Don't know that that's the way to go in today's green-tinged environment. If this is going to be primarily a truck engine, I wouldn't bet on 4V's either (needs 4 cams...expensive, troublesome, complex, BIG). I could see a 3V head though.

 

I still DON'T see why there needs to be a separate gasoline block and diesel block (both compacted graphite?) for the same projected displacement ranges though.

[Blue II]

Maybe my reading comprehension has dropped since I took the SAT's, but "new engine/series of OHC/2V (no 4v) motors named, you guessed it, "Boss". They will be between 5.8 and 6.4L in size and are based off the now defunct (it's 100% dead) Hurricane series" doesn't sound like the Hurricane is dead. Just renamed and being reworked (for VVT and DOD?). If something is based on something that doesn't exist yet, then that something is just an engineering upgrade of what is being worked on, isn't it? Unless they're totally resizing and reengineering the Hurricane? But then "based off...the Hurricane series"? I think someone is trying to create buzz by twisting a rumor.

 

As for comparisons to the old Cammer? You all remember that that engine had (true) hemi chambers? So two valves worked well, though with a lot of unburned gasoline flowing right from intake to exhaust valve. Don't know that that's the way to go in today's green-tinged environment. If this is going to be primarily a truck engine, I wouldn't bet on 4V's either (needs 4 cams...expensive, troublesome, complex, BIG). I could see a 3V head though.

 

I still DON'T see why there needs to be a separate gasoline block and diesel block (both compacted graphite?) for the same projected displacement ranges though.

 

The Triton/Boss/Hurricane are one in the same. It is a rotated two valve head somewhat like a Yates. no side cant with dual spark plugs. The bore spacing is generous, bigger than a Windsor and close to an FE. Everybody knows about this engine. I don't know why some are so late in finding out the details.

 

At one point an old Cammer was used to study packaging. This design has been around for 5 years and could have been a push rod or OHC config.

 

It will be a much better design than the Modular. Let's hope is survives all this reinventing of Ford Motor Co.

[Bluecon]

The Honda system is quite complicated. Partly because it is more difficult to use DOD on a V6.

They have a mechanical linkage in the valve train that disconnects the camshaft from the valves and an electronic system for noise cancellation that works thru the speakers.

 

A large V8 engine like this doesn't need multi-valves. The small bores in the Triton engine make head design more difficult. The multi valves are more for high RPM which isn't required.