GM March 2015 sales down 2%

[PREMiERdrum]

So what's SNAP have to do with Cadillac not having competitive cars to sale?. Even with the decline they still outpaces Lincoln. There's no de Nysschen cars on the road yet the Ct6 and CUVs are/were still on the drawing board when he got there.

 

As said before they need to launch the utilities asap.

They DO have competitive cars to sell. The cars themselves are fantastic. Unfortunately, the parade of incompetents running the wreath-and-crest turned crest-and-nothing brand spent billions to develop great cars that the market doesn't want to buy from them.

 

Unfortunately, nothing Johann has said thus far inspires me to give him the benefit of the doubt. His priorities are still quite obviously on Europe-chasing sports sedans, only the ones he seems to demand will be extraordinarly more expensive than those that are already floundering in the marketplace.

 

Johann did great things for Audi, though he was locked down quite a bit by VW's structure. The only mark he left on Infiniti was a batshit stupid naming scheme. His comments thus far for Cadillac don't give me any faith that he understands the volume and margin these new Cadillacs will require as they transition to a broken-out P&L. His only on-the-record comments about the new utilities coming (not the SRX/XT5, as that project was locked up when he got there) are about how they need to be aggressive, sporting utilities. Is that a formula for the volume they will need?

 

I maintain that Bara and company have either given Johann complete faith amd autonomy that will lead to another GM bankruptcy, or just enough rope to hang himself with which could lead to the destruction of the Cadillac brand as we know it.

 

And for the comments on "Cadillac still outselling Lincoln, despite the downturn, " remember that Cadillac has been under this turnaround plan for 14 YEARS at this point. Outselling a downtrodden Lincoln, Acura, and Infiniti are nothing for them to hang their hats on. Especially with all the money they've spent.

[akirby]

So many people like to focus on sales numbers without regard to the cost.

 

If the average net profit per vehicle is $5K (after warranty, advertising,overhead, etc.) then for every $1B you spend in development you have to sell 200,000 vehicles just to break even. Throw in rebates and it's even higher. Now extrapolate that to $12B and you can see how you can be the sales leader and still go bankrupt.

[akirby]

And BTW - Lincoln could boost sales immediately by lowering prices and/or adding rebates. There is a significant price jump from Ford to Lincoln nowadays - $6K - $8K in some cases. And Black Label is another $8K. Ford is minimizing production/development costs and maximizing gross profit per vehicle in lieu of sales volume. And that's why they've been turning a profit with Lincoln for the last few years.

[jpd80]

And BTW - Lincoln could boost sales immediately by lowering prices and/or adding rebates. There is a significant price jump from Ford to Lincoln nowadays - $6K - $8K in some cases. And Black Label is another $8K. Ford is minimizing production/development costs and maximizing gross profit per vehicle in lieu of sales volume. And that's why they've been turning a profit with Lincoln for the last few years.

Exactly, Titanium is the quasi Buick trim level below Lincoln and is picking up plenty of profitable sales.

The Lincolns are just ridiculous cream on top even though the sales are low.

 

If Continental's grille is part of the styling change, imagine the impact across the whole range,

could there be a serious MCE rethink?

Edited April 3, 2015 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

So what's SNAP have to do with Cadillac not having competitive cars to sale?

 

SNAP benefits ~ profits from Chevy.

 

Expensive artisanal kale, or whatever ~ CT6

 

Flour, sugar ~ the CUVs that they're not building

 

---

 

Here's another analogy:

 

Trying to compete with the top line offerings of a company profitable enough to fund its own development is like trying to keep up with your wealthier neighbors by purchasing on credit the things that they are buying with cash.

Edited April 3, 2015 by RichardJensen

[Anthony]

I'm hungry?

[PREMiERdrum]

I'm hungry?

 

Try the organic kale. I hear it's to die for.

[RichardJensen]

Seriously. Do people not understand that "organic vegetables" means "fertilized with poop"?

Edited April 3, 2015 by RichardJensen

[Anthony]

Seriously. Do people not understand that "organic vegetables" means "fertilized with poop"?

 

Extra protein!

[akirby]

Penn and Teller did a great "Bulls**t" episode on organic fruits and vegetables. They took a non-organic object (forgot which one - I think there were two different fruits or vegetables), cut it in half, put one on a plate that said organic and the other half on another plate that said non-organic. People swore the organic one tasted better. Significantly better. Don't underestimate the placebo effect.

[jpd80]

Seriously. Do people not understand that "organic vegetables" means "fertilized with poop"?

And boy, hasn't GM been spreading it around lately...

Edited April 3, 2015 by jpd80

[banker55]

The key is Arlington Assembly Plant. GM's full size SUV assembly plant. They are sold out. They work 24/hrs 6 days a week with voluntary Sundays.

1200 plus per day. Most units are high end units. Top end of Escalade is $97940 and it gets to share fixed and variable costs with with Chevy and GMC.

When you are sold out, you don't promote $43777 base models. By contrast, the Cadillac only Lansing Grand River Plant dropped a shift and has down weeks. Talk about massive fixed costs. Average transaction price will not cover a massive increase in fixed cost. The Lansing plant manager is explaining

why he bought a bundle of gloves while Graham ,the Arlington manager , does not have to explain a $30000 golf membership.

So many people like to focus on sales numbers without regard to the cost.

 

If the average net profit per vehicle is $5K (after warranty, advertising,overhead, etc.) then for every $1B you spend in development you have to sell 200,000 vehicles just to break even. Throw in rebates and it's even higher. Now extrapolate that to $12B and you can see how you can be the sales leader and still go bankrupt.

[jpd80]

The key is Arlington Assembly Plant. GM's full size SUV assembly plant. They are sold out. They work 24/hrs 6 days a week with voluntary Sundays.

1200 plus per day. Most units are high end units. Top end of Escalade is $97940 and it gets to share fixed and variable costs with with Chevy and GMC.

When you are sold out, you don't promote $43777 base models. By contrast, the Cadillac only Lansing Grand River Plant dropped a shift and has down weeks. Talk about massive fixed costs. Average transaction price will not cover a massive increase in fixed cost. The Lansing plant manager is explaining

why he bought a bundle of gloves while Graham ,the Arlington manager , does not have to explain a $30000 golf membership.

The real tragedy is that 450 people were laid off because GM could not properly market ATS and CTS at the prices it was asking,

 

So now GM will cover up those losses by adding Camaro production which will at best, have an ATP similar or slightly lower than ATS.

While Alpha will probably not lose money, it will be nowhere near the money maker GM thought..

 

LaCrosse probably makes more profit per month than ATS and CTS combined.

Edited April 4, 2015 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

 

So now GM will cover up those losses by adding Camaro production which will at best, have an ATP similar or slightly lower than ATS.

While Alpha will probably not lose money, it will be nowhere near the money maker GM thought..

 

 

A new Camaro that by every indication seems primed to underwhelm on top of that

[Fgts]

A new Camaro that by every indication seems primed to underwhelm on top of that

Yep, everyone won't buy the 16 Camaro......

[fuzzymoomoo]

Yep, everyone won't buy the 16 Camaro......

Yup, never said that. Keep putting words in my mouth, it's really fun!

 

 

 

If you read anything outside of this website that isn't dedicated to blowing GM and their management, you would see that there's some buzz starting to build regarding the next Camaro not being the revolutionary design that SOME feel is necessary, and that the Mustang (even the Challenger in certain configurations) will continue to blow it out of the water and steal sales away. Does that mean that nobody will buy it? Absolutely not. You will still have the die-hards lining up in droves to get one, as well as the segment of people that absolutely have to have the newest model available. There might even be some conquest sales from people trading older Mustangs and Challengers just because its different. I just can't see it being the car to take down the Mustang based on the teaser shots and the little tidbits about the new one that have trickled out so far. Oh by the way, regardless of how well it sells, it's still paying for the continued existence of the fields floundering ATS and CTS inventory sitting on various vacant lots and empty industrial complexes across the state of Michigan.

[jpd80]

A new Camaro that by every indication seems primed to underwhelm on top of that

No, that expectation was set by non-buyers, the actual cars will be better than the current which is all it needs to be.

The same expectations were levelled at Mustang and it's doing fine.

 

 

Yep, everyone won't buy the 16 Camaro......

Mustang is following the exact same sales trajectory as Mustang, everyone holding back for the '16

so it will probably be a runaway hit too.. kudos to Chevrolet, they've put a lot of effort to get it right.

Edited April 4, 2015 by jpd80

[papilgee4evaeva]

No, that expectation was set by non-buyers, the actual cars will be better than the current which is all it needs to be.

The same expectations were levelled at Mustang and it's doing fine.

 

I could be mistaken, but I think any indications of the next Camaro "underwhelming" have to do with select people not really feeling the appearance.

[jpd80]

 

I could be mistaken, but I think any indications of the next Camaro "underwhelming" have to do with select people not really feeling the appearance.

In fairness, "select people" doesn't equate to general consensus which will come when actual Camaro buyers see and feel the product.

It's pretty much the same as "internet experts" predicted big mouth and wider track "fat Mustang" would not work...

Edited April 5, 2015 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

In fairness, "select people" doesn't equate to general consensus which will come when actual Camaro buyers see and feel the product.

It's pretty much the same as "internet experts" predicted big mouth and wider track "fat Mustang" would not work...

You honestly think that the teaser pics that are floating around aren't doing more harm than good? How can they claim all new when the only thing that really is different is the platform? It looks alarmingly like the current car, and that's a problem. I'm not saying that they need something revolutionary like Ford did with the Mustang, but that? It doesn't even look like its evolutionary.

[papilgee4evaeva]

You honestly think that the teaser pics that are floating around aren't doing more harm than good? How can they claim all new when the only thing that really is different is the platform? It looks alarmingly like the current car, and that's a problem. I'm not saying that they need something revolutionary like Ford did with the Mustang, but that? It doesn't even look like its evolutionary.

 

Not to defend Camaro at all, but Porsche has been doing that for at least a decade.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Not to defend Camaro at all, but Porsche has been doing that for at least a decade.

A fair point. There is a huge difference between Porsche and Chevy. Porsche can get away with that, Chevy can't. They don't have the same kind of cache. Same with Caddilac and MB/BMW/Audi or whoever de Nysschen decides they're fighting this week.

 

Now, I could be completely wrong here too and it turns out he new platform is a big enough upgrade so it won't matter (like what Porsche does) what the thing looks like because it drives that much better.

Edited April 5, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo

[Fgts]

Yup, never said that. Keep putting words in my mouth, it's really fun!

 

 

 

If you read anything outside of this website that isn't dedicated to blowing GM and their management, you would see that there's some buzz starting to build regarding the next Camaro not being the revolutionary design that SOME feel is necessary, and that the Mustang (even the Challenger in certain configurations) will continue to blow it out of the water and steal sales away. Does that mean that nobody will buy it? Absolutely not. You will still have the die-hards lining up in droves to get one, as well as the segment of people that absolutely have to have the newest model available. There might even be some conquest sales from people trading older Mustangs and Challengers just because its different. I just can't see it being the car to take down the Mustang based on the teaser shots and the little tidbits about the new one that have trickled out so far. Oh by the way, regardless of how well it sells, it's still paying for the continued existence of the fields floundering ATS and CTS inventory sitting on various vacant lots and empty industrial complexes across the state of Michigan.

That's fine "die hards" and the trendy will buy Camaro but to indicate that's the Camaro won't have nothing else going for it is inaccurate,the same can be said with Mustang.

 

N/A Zeta was even a bigger waste of money with just the Camaro on that and 0 other platformmates.

[jpd80]

You honestly think that the teaser pics that are floating around aren't doing more harm than good? How can they claim all new when the only thing that really is different is the platform? It looks alarmingly like the current car, and that's a problem. I'm not saying that they need something revolutionary like Ford did with the Mustang, but that? It doesn't even look like its evolutionary.

And GM's research told them not to change styling too much, just reduce weight a bit.

Again, you're giving way too much credence to internet opinions, let's see what actual buyers think.

I think you'll see that there is more to the subtle changes than apparent in these first few pictures.

 

 

N/A Zeta was even a bigger waste of money with just the Camaro on that and 0 other platformmates.

Camaro requires a unique platform regardless of the original donor, so much needs to change to capture the car unique form.

And GM wouldn't have been in such a hole if it hadn't cancelled Zeta Impala, GTO, Caprice, Lucerne with no replacements in sight.

Edited April 5, 2015 by jpd80

[BrewfanGRB]

Admission: I got a GM Buypower card a few months ago. (Mainly for the 0% intro APR and no annual fee). While liked the MKZ interior, I just could not get myself to warm up to the exterior. I LOVE the ATS. I think it's gorgeous and even with 2.0T, it should be plenty fast. Plus, Cadillac does put a lot of tech into the car. I put all my recurring spend on that card. I figured-that money gets spent every month either way, rack up a small-ish amount by the time I'm ready to buy, all good.

 

But whenever I go to periodically poke around on the Cadillac site, it's discouraging. SO expensive. I mean, by the time you put any of the worthwhile options in it and the 2.0T, you can't stay under $42k. And most of the time, it's ~ $45k. Ridiculous. Plus, I feel bad for even thought-cheating on Ford. The CTS is even worse. I'm baffled by what CTS buyers are doing. Or think they're doing. They have a CTS now and are just getting another, not realizing the change and just paying the ridiculously inflated prices for the CTS?

 

A part of me feels bad for Cadillac and GM--because the cars are awesome. But they've completely screwed the pricing. The other part of me has no sympathy at all--they screwed it up and it's only their fault. So I'm back on-board with my eventual new car being an MkC. Probably. Unless they apply similar design language in the Continental to the MkZ. *drools* Getting X-plan makes up for the lack of a card affiliated with Ford.