trailfndr Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The tier 2 employees have jobs for 2 reasons. 1, tier 1 made sacrifices to avoid losing more jobs, and 2, the economy tanked worldwide to the point that due to those same sacrifices, it became less expensive for the company to build HERE, than to build and ship from overseas. tier 2 wasn't here when the UAW opened the contract in the middle of it to make the cuts needed to prevent Ford from going bankrupt. They weren't here when our workforce dropped by nearly half in under 2 years, as the company fought to survive. SO don't come on here and tell tier one how terribly selfish they are, because WE made the sacrifices that saved the company, and GAVE you the jobs you have. We weren't happy about it, but we did it to protect JOBS, and keep the company afloat during a very difficult time. Our sacrifices, have allowed the company to become profitable again. Allowed a lot of people to have jobs that simply didn't exist 5 years ago, and allowed the company to bring work back to the USA from overseas, the made even more jobs available. Now its time to get some of what we gave up returned to ALL of us. If we don't stop fighting one another, we are all doomed to be destroyed, because quite frankly, the company don't give a damn about you or me. They only care about the bottom line. Every decision they make is based on the bottom line. Nothing else matters. If it doesn't improve the bottom line, its not going to happen. Plain and simple. You don't want to hear it, but it is what it is. Deal with it. Whatever shitty contract is brought forth this year, WILL be accepted by the membership simply because the workforce is greedy and wants that signing bonus. Money talks, and Ford and the UAW have learned that even a piece of crap, will pass if they throw enough money at people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) The tier 2 employees have jobs for 2 reasons. 1, tier 1 made sacrifices to avoid losing more jobs, and 2, the economy tanked worldwide to the point that due to those same sacrifices, it became less expensive for the company to build HERE, than to build and ship from overseas. tier 2 wasn't here when the UAW opened the contract in the middle of it to make the cuts needed to prevent Ford from going bankrupt. They weren't here when our workforce dropped by nearly half in under 2 years, as the company fought to survive. SO don't come on here and tell tier one how terribly selfish they are, because WE made the sacrifices that saved the company, and GAVE you the jobs you have. We weren't happy about it, but we did it to protect JOBS, and keep the company afloat during a very difficult time. Our sacrifices, have allowed the company to become profitable again. Allowed a lot of people to have jobs that simply didn't exist 5 years ago, and allowed the company to bring work back to the USA from overseas, the made even more jobs available. Now its time to get some of what we gave up returned to ALL of us. If we don't stop fighting one another, we are all doomed to be destroyed, because quite frankly, the company don't give a damn about you or me. They only care about the bottom line. Every decision they make is based on the bottom line. Nothing else matters. If it doesn't improve the bottom line, its not going to happen. Plain and simple. You don't want to hear it, but it is what it is. Deal with it. Whatever shitty contract is brought forth this year, WILL be accepted by the membership simply because the workforce is greedy and wants that signing bonus. Money talks, and Ford and the UAW have learned that even a piece of crap, will pass if they throw enough money at people. This may not apply to you as I don't know your thoughts on it, but if you're tier 1 and vow to vote no if you don't get a raise and tier 2 does....then you're greedy and selfish! Were doing the same damn job as you and equal pay for equal work is the backbone of any union. Edited June 19, 2015 by Tier2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 You were hired in the middle of a contract, what did you want them to do change it in the middle to make you believe? Oh how about for starters act like they give a shit. They don't need to change the contract to show me they give a shit. Don't treat me (or anyone else who is tier 2) any differently just because we make less money and have lower seniority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one of a kind Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have to agree with tier 2. I've told guys at my plant I'm willing to pass on a raise this contract if they make tier 2 whole man you would think I said something about their mothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Oh how about for starters act like they give a shit. They don't need to change the contract to show me they give a shit. Don't treat me (or anyone else who is tier 2) any differently just because we make less money and have lower seniority. How did you get treated differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have to agree with tier 2. I've told guys at my plant I'm willing to pass on a raise this contract if they make tier 2 whole man you would think I said something about their mothers. Thank you....same thing goes on at my plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) How did you get treated differently?It's very simple. We are routinely blown off/ ignored when anything happens, and shown general apathy when we can even get the attention of anyone with the union Then there's the issue of the shift reduction. I am 100% convinced that if there was even a single legacy affected by it they would have answers to most, if not all of their questions. There is not a thing you or any of the othe kook aid drinkers can ever tell me to convince me otherwise THEY DO NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE SECOND TIER. and again, there is not a thing you or any of the other kook aid drinkers can ever tell me until the day either of us die that will convince me otherwise. Contract or no contract. If they want to change my mind, then it's up to them to prove me wrong. Edited June 19, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It's very simple. We are routinely blown off/ ignored when anything happens, and shown general apathy when we can even get the attention of anyone with the union Then there's the issue of the shift reduction. I am 100% convinced that if there was even a single legacy affected by it they would have answers to most, if not all of their questions. There is not a thing you or any of the othe kook aid drinkers can ever tell me to convince me otherwise THEY DO NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE SECOND TIER. and again, there is not a thing you or any of the other kook aid drinkers can ever tell me until the day either of us die that will convince me otherwise. Contract or no contract. If they want to change my mind, then it's up to them to prove me wrong. I'm not sure how your announcement went down, but I tend to believe that you think the union knows more than what they are telling you. I believe they are in the dark until the last minute when it comes to numbers affected and dates. Remember the company wants you to hate the union, so they will do everything they can to make that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) I also know how you feel about being laid off. IT SUCKS...but that is part of this industry. Maybe its just me but I think you'll be back soon. I agree though they should show more empathy and be more readily available, even though they probably don't know many details. Edited June 19, 2015 by Tier2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'm not sure how your announcement went down, but I tend to believe that you think the union knows more than what they are telling you. I believe they are in the dark until the last minute when it comes to numbers affected and dates. Remember the company wants you to hate the union, so they will do everything they can to make that happen. If there were any legacy involved in the layoff, the union would care enough to get information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) I also know how you feel about being laid off. IT SUCKS...but that is part of this industry. Maybe its just me but I think you'll be back soon. I agree though they should show more empathy and be more readily available, even though they probably don't know many details. You act as if you know something, care to share with the class? Otherwise just sit there and keep drinking the kool aid Edited June 19, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If there were any legacy involved in the layoff, the union would care enough to get information My plant was closing and I didn't know until Thursday that the next day would be my last in my plant. Back in 2008 we were contracting as a company and nobody knew if we would have a job to transfer to. I was laid off for 5 months. Don't think you're being treated any differently than anybody in the past. I never was given any answers either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axle72 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Tier 1 2 trades it don't matter listen to a lil segar we r nothing but a # that's it period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) My plant was closing and I didn't know until Thursday that the next day would be my last in my plant. Back in 2008 we were contracting as a company and nobody knew if we would have a job to transfer to. I was laid off for 5 months. Don't think you're being treated any differently than anybody in the past. I never was given any answers either. For one, that's illegal under federal law unless you were a temp at the time. Probably too late to do anything about it now but it might be worth looking into. Are you tier 1 or 2, because that's the difference here. A simple question like do we go back to LTS or TPT status or do we maintain our Entry Leven status with possibly a new seniority date? A question that shouldn't be that hard to answer STILL hasn't been answered almost 8 weeks later. Edited June 19, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) For one, that's illegal under federal law unless you were a temp at the time. Probably too late to do anything about it now but it might be worth looking into. Are you tier 1 or 2, because that's the difference here. A simple question like do we go back to LTS or TPT status or do we maintain our Entry Leven status with possibly a new seniority date? A question that shouldn't be that hard to answer STILL hasn't been answered almost 8 weeks later. It depends, when you get called back you will be told what you are. We just had some called back at my plant and some are Entry level and some are TPT's. Edited June 19, 2015 by Tier2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) You act as if you know something, care to share with the class? Otherwise just sit there and keep drinking the kool aid I've been laid off from jobs before...so I know how that feels. I also am friends with a lot of people that have worked for Ford for 15-20 years and every one has been laid off or transferred at some point....but they ALL were called back. Edited June 19, 2015 by Tier2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madime39 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think a lot of workers that are getting laid off would be amazed at how many of us were screwed back in the late '70s when WE were laid off with no recall rights. Guess what? We survived, and you will too. With 29 pages of Tier 1 vs Tier 2 griping, maybe we just need to agree to disagree. We're all adults, basically wanting the same thing: a fair contract. Some of the comments in this forum look like they come from elementary school kids on the playground. It's embarrassing. All of the energy spent fighting with each other would be far better served DEMANDING that the union not even consider presenting us with a shitty contract. And for the love of all things holy, am I the only one that thinks the term "stop drinking the kool aid" has run its course and should never be spoken (or written) again?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 For one, that's illegal under federal law unless you were a temp at the time. Probably too late to do anything about it now but it might be worth looking into. Are you tier 1 or 2, because that's the difference here. A simple question like do we go back to LTS or TPT status or do we maintain our Entry Leven status with possibly a new seniority date? A question that shouldn't be that hard to answer STILL hasn't been answered almost 8 weeks later. Things were different back then. We had GEN. The point I was trying to make was, there is nothing happening now that hasn't happened to anyone else. Don't think you're being singled out because of your seniority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 It's not so much a matter of seniority, though I do think it plays a small part. It's more about money. Sure we at the same 2 1/2 hours per month as tier 1, but it's less money due to the wage gap. They aren't paid as much to care as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT32 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 So I'm kind of confused on this LTS sign ups. If we don't sign we just sit on layoff getting unemployment and Sub pay waiting for a call, if we sign we go to whichever plant, as an LTS with no short work week or sub pay in the event of being sent home or cancelled shifts, since you're labeled LTS.. Do I have this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) So I'm kind of confused on this LTS sign ups. If we don't sign we just sit on layoff getting unemployment and Sub pay waiting for a call, if we sign we go to whichever plant, as an LTS with no short work week or sub pay in the event of being sent home or cancelled shifts, since you're labeled LTS.. Do I have this right? Everything but the LTS label part. You retain your entry level status and any benefits accrued according to your ford seniority date. The only reason these are classified LTS jobs is because they are temporary summer help. You start over on plant seniority. Whether you sign or wait for a call, either way you end up with the same status. Signing just allows for some preference Edited June 19, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDeal Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 One thing to think about is will you be denied unemployment because you refused work if you dont sign up for the lts openings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT32 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 According to bargaining rep and my rep I spoke to today, it will not effect your unemployment if you don't sign. It's simply giving those who want to work over summer the chance to work, those who don't don't have to sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmsford Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 According to bargaining rep and my rep I spoke to today, it will not effect your unemployment if you don't sign. It's simply giving those who want to work over summer the chance to work, those who don't don't have to sign. I'd be willing to bet that when ford calls people back to work they'll be calling the people who volunteered to work the summer before they call back the ones who refused it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tier2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) I'd be willing to bet that when ford calls people back to work they'll be calling the people who volunteered to work the summer before they call back the ones who refused it I know the union can't blatantly come out and say this, but no one should accept to come back as a temp worker. It's exactly what the company wants, you off the books but still getting your labor. Edited June 19, 2015 by Tier2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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