OHV 16V Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) For everyone but us here in the U.S. A certain group of enthusiasts on here can (rightly) weep... http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-focus-diesel-wagon-first-drive-review Edit: It's got a manual trans too! Edited April 14, 2015 by OHV 16V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) People who want this type of car should just go to a BMW store and pick up a 328d Xdrive wagon. They're not available in a manual here either, but it's still 43mpg which is as good as it gets for AWD. I see over 50 are on dealer lots just waiting to be bought within 100 miles of me. Money talks, if BMW sells a lot of these diesel AWD wagons like everyone says they want, then others like Ford might take notice and want in on the action. Edited April 15, 2015 by Donaldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I definitely would love that to come over, but am not willing to drop money on a BMW to make my point.It's really tragic, to me, that "wagon" is such a profane word to the American car-buying public. Maybe they should take on "estate" names for some trial marketing...because the unavailable-to-us Focus wagon (especially the ST) really does humiliate the C-Max in terms of appearance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I definitely would love that to come over, but am not willing to drop money on a BMW to make my point. It's really tragic, to me, that "wagon" is such a profane word to the American car-buying public. Maybe they should take on "estate" names for some trial marketing...because the unavailable-to-us Focus wagon (especially the ST) really does humiliate the C-Max in terms of appearance. The C-Max humiliates itself by looking like a rolling jellybean. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I definitely would love that to come over, but am not willing to drop money on a BMW to make my point. It's really tragic, to me, that "wagon" is such a profane word to the American car-buying public. Maybe they should take on "estate" names for some trial marketing...because the unavailable-to-us Focus wagon (especially the ST) really does humiliate the C-Max in terms of appearance. There is nothing "profane" about it. Americans simply grew up with SUVs so we prefer SUV styling over wagon styling. CUVs provide the benefits of SUVs like the high seating position with a more car-like ride. Why is that so hard to understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) People who want this type of car should just go to a BMW store and pick up a 328d Xdrive wagon. They're not available in a manual here either, but it's still 43mpg which is as good as it gets for AWD. I see over 50 are on dealer lots just waiting to be bought within 100 miles of me. Money talks, if BMW sells a lot of these diesel AWD wagons like everyone says they want, then others like Ford might take notice and want in on the action. BMW F31 diesel is an appealing vehicle, even though manual transmission and RWD are sadly not offered on the U.S. market version. One tidbit to keep in mind: Unless the Dynamic Handling Package (DHP) is specified, ALL xDrive models get the softest suspension tuning possible on the F3x series - even Sport Line and M Sport trims. It's very rare to find an F31 in dealership stock that has DHP; most that are so equipped are customer sold orders. Edited April 15, 2015 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) I definitely would love that to come over, but am not willing to drop money on a BMW to make my point. It's really tragic, to me, that "wagon" is such a profane word to the American car-buying public. Maybe they should take on "estate" names for some trial marketing...because the unavailable-to-us Focus wagon (especially the ST) really does humiliate the C-Max in terms of appearance. I like wagons. I will always like wagons. The name "wagon" doesn't offend me. I don't care what others think. I learned to drive with a wagon and the first new car I bought for myself was a wagon. Edited April 16, 2015 by LincolnV 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 The people who like wagons get their underwear in a bunch when others point out the facts that Americans simply prefer crossovers due to styling and ride height and other subjective things. They like to pretend that it's the name wagon or station wagon or that there is some stigma that CUV buyers have wrongly affixed to wagons and that's why they don't sell. The truth is Americans simply prefer utility styling and the higher ride height (makes them feel safer) having grown up on utilities and trucks. And whenever a mfr does offer a true station wagon it doesn't sell well enough to keep it around. It's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Honestly akirby, every wagon post here gets your knickers in a knot. It's almost like clockwork. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Lincoln V....fact is hes correct though....I flashback to the Focus Wagon, personally I loved the car, but it didn't sell and just sat on our lots gathering dust, same cant be said for Escapes.....I would say that's case closed. Edited April 16, 2015 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Lincoln V....fact is hes correct though....I flashback to the Focus Wagon, personally I loved the car, but it didn't sell and just sat on our lost, same cant be said for Escapes.....I would say that's case closed. If others, like me, understand that the body style is not popular, that is one thing. Some of the commentary regarding it is another thing. There are people who like wagons. Whether you and your sales associates have come to the conclusion that it's a closed case, does not take away that there are a few of us who still like wagons. Some of the remarks are interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 There is nothing "profane" about it. Americans simply grew up with SUVs so we prefer SUV styling over wagon styling. CUVs provide the benefits of SUVs like the high seating position with a more car-like ride. Why is that so hard to understand? You act as if your point cancels mine, which is utterly not the case. Some of us had wagons all through our formative years, and appreciate the lower center of gravity, the lower weight without the foot (or more) of added body height, and thus the performance and economy gains available. I'm very well aware of the reasons for SUV/CUV popularity, but I still scoff at people getting their "rugged appearance packs" on vehicles that will see, at worst, a tar-stripped road. Poseur marketing at its finest. The Focus wagon is miles more attractive than the C-Max, and could certainly be a good combination of performace/utility/economy for the brand, were it not for so many falling in love with "activity vehicles" that are wholly unlikely to do anything that an embattled "wagon" couldn't do as well, or better, while lugging around less weight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm generally in the camp that wagons are probably going to have a hard time pulling their weight in North America. However, looking at how things unfolded around the C-Max hybrid, it makes me wonder if a hybrid only Focus Wagon might have been a better option. I assume the Focus wagon could have put up real mpg numbers as good or better than the Fusion. Maybe they could have squeezed a 50mpg number out of it. That is something that hybrid buyers may have valued more than the upright styling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You act as if your point cancels mine, which is utterly not the case. Some of us had wagons all through our formative years, and appreciate the lower center of gravity, the lower weight without the foot (or more) of added body height, and thus the performance and economy gains available. I'm very well aware of the reasons for SUV/CUV popularity, but I still scoff at people getting their "rugged appearance packs" on vehicles that will see, at worst, a tar-stripped road. Poseur marketing at its finest. The Focus wagon is miles more attractive than the C-Max, and could certainly be a good combination of performace/utility/economy for the brand, were it not for so many falling in love with "activity vehicles" that are wholly unlikely to do anything that an embattled "wagon" couldn't do as well, or better, while lugging around less weight. If others, like me, understand that the body style is not popular, that is one thing. Some of the commentary regarding it is another thing. There are people who like wagons. Whether you and your sales associates have come to the conclusion that it's a closed case, does not take away that there are a few of us who still like wagons. Some of the remarks are interesting... Well Said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 For the 50th time, I have nothing whatsoever against wagons. Just because I personally don't like them doesn't have any bearing on whether I think others should like them or not or whether they should be sold here. If more people wanted wagons and the mfrs were selling them I'd have NO ISSUE at all. However, the same can't be said of people who like wagons (I presume) and therefore denigrate the people who prefer utilities over station wagons (poseur marketing) coming up with all sorts of excuses ranging from posing to there being some sort of "stigma" attached to the idea of a wagon. My points are simple: 1 - wagons simply don't sell in the U.S. When mfrs have brought wagons they haven't sold very well and most end up being cancelled in a few years (Magnum e.g.). 2 - People who prefer utilities over wagons are just as entitled to their personal preferences as the ones who prefer wagons. 3 - The main reason people here prefer utilities is that they grew up with trucks and SUVs and they like the higher seating position, availability of AWD just in case they need it, and the much larger selection of vehicles to choose from. My wife has driven utilities exclusively for the last 22 years (not AWD either) for the styling and higher seating position. It makes her "feel" safer and she just likes the way they look. She doesn't like the way minvans look, period. She doesn't like the way most wagons look and she doesn't like the lower seating position of any vehicle including my Fusion. And the same is probably true for 90% of utility drivers. Stop playing the victim and blaming the demise of the wagon on poseur marketing and stigmas or whatever other excuses you've dreamed up and just understand that different people like different things and wagon owners are in the minority. If we were in Europe the opposite would be true and there's nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 For the 50th time, I have nothing whatsoever against wagons. Just because I personally don't like them doesn't have any bearing on whether I think others should like them or not or whether they should be sold here. If more people wanted wagons and the mfrs were selling them I'd have NO ISSUE at all. However, the same can't be said of people who like wagons (I presume) and therefore denigrate the people who prefer utilities over station wagons (poseur marketing) coming up with all sorts of excuses ranging from posing to there being some sort of "stigma" attached to the idea of a wagon. My points are simple: 1 - wagons simply don't sell in the U.S. When mfrs have brought wagons they haven't sold very well and most end up being cancelled in a few years (Magnum e.g.). 2 - People who prefer utilities over wagons are just as entitled to their personal preferences as the ones who prefer wagons. 3 - The main reason people here prefer utilities is that they grew up with trucks and SUVs and they like the higher seating position, availability of AWD just in case they need it, and the much larger selection of vehicles to choose from. My wife has driven utilities exclusively for the last 22 years (not AWD either) for the styling and higher seating position. It makes her "feel" safer and she just likes the way they look. She doesn't like the way minvans look, period. She doesn't like the way most wagons look and she doesn't like the lower seating position of any vehicle including my Fusion. And the same is probably true for 90% of utility drivers. Stop playing the victim and blaming the demise of the wagon on poseur marketing and stigmas or whatever other excuses you've dreamed up and just understand that different people like different things and wagon owners are in the minority. If we were in Europe the opposite would be true and there's nothing wrong with that. Stop playing the victim? OMG! Where did you learn that? OMG! I am a victim because I like wagons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 No, you're a victim because you blame stigmas and poseurs and stupid buyers for you not being able to buy more wagons in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 No, you're a victim because you blame stigmas and poseurs and stupid buyers for you not being able to buy more wagons in the U.S. Oh akirby, please tell me and quote where I have said that. I will be waiting. crickets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Oh akirby, please tell me and quote where I have said that. I will be waiting. crickets... Where did I say it was you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 The truth is Americans simply prefer utility styling and the higher ride height (makes them feel safer) having grown up on utilities and trucks. And whenever a mfr does offer a true station wagon it doesn't sell well enough to keep it around. It's that simple. In the 1920s and 30s, most American cars were more upright/high clearance much like a modern SUV/crossover. It could be we're just going back to our roots. With the lack of investment in road infrastructure, maybe our future American roads will also more closely resemble those of the 1920s and 30s when high clearance vehicles were necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) NM Edited April 16, 2015 by LincolnV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Lincoln, I understand theres some that like wagons...some...manufacturers tend to go in directions that generate sales numbers...wagons DO NOT...simple business decision...go where the money is, very simple actually...me, I like wagons too, but completely understand their appeal is niche and nothing more...majority rules Edited April 16, 2015 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 snicker...another flashback...I remember selling Country Squire wagons, complete with woodgrain option...eeeek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) NM Edited April 16, 2015 by LincolnV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) NM Edited April 16, 2015 by LincolnV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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