RichardJensen Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The Tesla is nothing short of revolutionary. It would be revolutionary if it were profitable. Instead it's just a well-executed curiosity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 It would be revolutionary if it were profitable. Instead it's just a well-executed curiosity. Have we actually seen any evidence that Tesla loses money on the cars themselves? I thought the only reason they weren't profitable as a company was due to massive re-investment for future products, which seems like a smart thing to do. Also, go back 5 years, tell yourself that the Model S out-sells the 7-series and see how you react. I was skeptical back in 2010 when I considered going to work for them, and I was skeptical in 2012 when a friend joined them, but they continue to exceed expectations. I'm really curious to know what they would have to accomplish to get you to admit you're even slightly impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Although every car nut loves the sound of a great engine...but... That shriek that car makes at full throttle with its 4(!) electric motors! It's two motors, actually, one in back and one in front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) I thought the only reason they weren't profitable as a company was due to massive re-investment for future products No. They issued a total of $1B in debt and equity last year and only spent $717M cash outlay on R&D. Also worth noting, their losses, in GAAP terms, are increasing significantly ($882M last year, $75M in 2013) Spend some time with their 10K. You're smart enough to suss it out. It's not good. http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-4CW8X0/1740147920x0xS1564590-16-13195/1318605/filing.pdf Edited March 22, 2016 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 It's also worth observing that Tesla has a $1B asset backed revolver. Ford used to have one of those. They negotiated it in 2006 when they couldn't raise money any other way. They haven't had to mortgage their trademarks yet, but with $1.43B in assets tied up as security on that credit facility, they're pinched pretty tight, given how little money they have on hand right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 You're comparing dropping a tablet to 2 cars hitting each other head on at a closing speed of 100 mph+? Not once did I say Ford's version was better. All I said is there are tradeoffs in both cost and durability between the 2 designs and Ford made a choice to go with a particular type of screen for those reasons. Tesla chose differently for different reasons. It has nothing whatsoever to do with engineering because neither Ford nor Tesla builds their own screens - they all buy them from the same third parties. And if two cars hit each other at 100mph, I'm sure many other things would killyou before the touch screen. The touch screen is probably more dangerous because someone would be using it at 100mph, in which case I'd agree that the touchscreen is dangerous. I was also not trying to start a contest with this either. I was pointing out I liked the touchscreen and it worked better than Fords. I do understand Ford had to build the Focus to a smaller price point than Tesla. Maybe I could have said that better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 It would be revolutionary if it were profitable. Instead it's just a well-executed curiosity. Like I said at the beginning of the thread, I wasn't going to comment on how they run the company. I just liked the product... very much... Verrrrrry much!!! I hope you get to try one out and see what I see. So much on this board was dumped on Tesla the company that I wanted to review the car itself with out getting bogged down on more commentary about how the company is run. So i stick by my statement that the product itself is revolutionary. The jury is still out on the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 It's two motors, actually, one in back and one in front. I'll look into that, but I'm going by what the salesman told me. He said it was all wheel drive and all wheels were powered independently with four motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 But don't you see? If it's not possible to make the product without losing money hand over fist on it, then how is it 'revolutionary'? It's like if I had a hobby, and I made really awesome bourbon that I sold for $5 a bottle, and you were all, "This is revolutionary! I don't know why other whiskeys cost so much!!!" Well, it's pretty simple--the other companies are trying to make a profit. I'm just having fun. So, you know, kudos to Musk for making a really good unprofitable vehicle--something that John DeLorean was also pretty good at--but revolutionary means that, like, it's going to change things. And it's not. i stick by my statement that the product itself is revolutionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'll look into that, but I'm going by what the salesman told me. He said it was all wheel drive and all wheels were powered independently with four motors. OMG! Ill-informed salesmen are one of the things Musk uses to justify spending all that time and money trying to tear down dealer franchise laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 But don't you see? If it's not possible to make the product without losing money hand over fist on it, then how is it 'revolutionary'? It's like if I had a hobby, and I made really awesome bourbon that I sold for $5 a bottle, and you were all, "This is revolutionary! I don't know why other whiskeys cost so much!!!" Well, it's pretty simple--the other companies are trying to make a profit. I'm just having fun. So, you know, kudos to Musk for making a really good unprofitable vehicle--something that John DeLorean was also pretty good at--but revolutionary means that, like, it's going to change things. And it's not. The Delorean was not a good car, but I see what you're saying. I'll try to simplify what I'm saying. The Tesla Model S in an excellent car. And of course it is my opinion. Remember the American revolution didn't start off well with the colonists losing every battle, but it was also revolutionary hahaha! Maybe if Tesla can survive long enough it can thrive and make a profit and then the company as a whole can benefit from my statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The Delorean was not a good car The DMC was underpowered, but other than that, hey, Lotus suspension, fantastic looks, really good build quality (for the period), etc. Wonder how much more JZD could've done if he could've kept going to the capital markets for funds the way Musk has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 And if two cars hit each other at 100mph, I'm sure many other things would killyou before the touch screen. The touch screen is probably more dangerous because someone would be using it at 100mph, in which case I'd agree that the touchscreen is dangerous. I was also not trying to start a contest with this either. I was pointing out I liked the touchscreen and it worked better than Fords. I do understand Ford had to build the Focus to a smaller price point than Tesla. Maybe I could have said that better. I know it doesn't really matter, but he said combined speed, meaning each was going 50 MPH. Just a tad different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I know it doesn't really matter, but he said combined speed, meaning each was going 50 MPH. Just a tad different. Yep, closing speed. So has anyone confirmed that Tesla actually builds their capacitive touchscreens in house or do they just buy them from a supplier just like everyone else and integrate them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Remember the American revolution didn't start off well with the colonists losing every battle, but it was also revolutionary hahaha! Maybe if Tesla can survive long enough it can thrive and make a profit and then the company as a whole can benefit from my statement. I hope both Tesla Motors and the United States of America survive long after I do! Model S is the first world class E or F-segment car designed and engineered primarily in the U.S. by a U.S. company. That's a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Yep, closing speed. So has anyone confirmed that Tesla actually builds their capacitive touchscreens in house or do they just buy them from a supplier just like everyone else and integrate them? Just got off a Delta 757 with touch screens in the seat backs. Talk about closing speeds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I am 99.99% certain they do not build their own capacitive touchscreens in house. They are assembled in the same factory as the cars. Tesla may not design them, but they are assembled in the Tesla factory. It's in the video here: https://www.yahoo.com/autos/inside-teslas-fremont-electric-car-plant-model-model-133000655.html I just spoke with my son in law Tesla employee, 2 motors and yes the touch screen is assembled in house. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Just got off a Delta 757 with touch screens in the seat backs. Talk about closing speeds! I saw an Air Disasters episode where two jets hit each other at 30K feet in South America. One was able to land safely but the other on sliced off a wing and crashed in the jungle. The surviving aircraft never saw the other one and had no idea what happened until they saw the news reports. Apparently they were supposed to be at an odd altitude (29K or 31K) since they were Northbound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I just spoke with my son in law Tesla employee, 2 motors and yes the touch screen is assembled in house. Assembled or manufactured? Do they start with glass and wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 What did I type. Seems like you're trying to imply only Tesla uses outside vendors when we both know that's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 You said "assemble" which doesn't answer the question. I still have a hard time believing that Tesla manufactures a capacitive touch screen from scratch in a US car factory. They can't possibly do it cheaper than Japan or China, so if they do then it must be for quality control or superior durability. If so then I'll give them kudos for that. In any event capacitive touch screens in all sizes are readily available to Ford if they wanted to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 You said "assemble" which doesn't answer the question. I still have a hard time believing that Tesla manufactures a capacitive touch screen from scratch in a US car factory. They can't possibly do it cheaper than Japan or China, so if they do then it must be for quality control or superior durability. If so then I'll give them kudos for that. In any event capacitive touch screens in all sizes are readily available to Ford if they wanted to use them. Capacitive touchscreens are comprised of multiple layers, right? Don't you need a white room environment to build touch screens like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Capacitive touchscreens are comprised of multiple layers, right? Don't you need a white room environment to build touch screens like that? Exactly my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I was right. The touchscreen is made by TPK holding in Japan, not Tesla. http://evannex.com/blogs/news/15668580-inside-look-at-a-tesla-model-s-teardown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) My guess is that they attach the screen to the dash panel, hook up a few wires, and voila! Assembled! I seriously doubt the manufacture the entire thing there in the car plant. EDIT: akirby's post came in as I was typing mine. Surprise, surprise! Edited March 23, 2016 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.