papilgee4evaeva Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Transit, Transit Connect, and Police Intercepters have significant retail customers? And what percentage of F-Series/SuperDuty is sold into fleets? Might I suggest it's more than a Ford Fusion? 1) Transit and TC, possibly (I haven't seen numbers yet). PI and PIU, probably not so much. 2) It might be, but that's because there are more businesses and governmental agencies needing pickup trucks than there are that need midsize sedans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Please post your preferred definitions for those phrases sir. Month after month of 30%+ fleet sales, which by definition are less profitable than retail sales, is "fleet dumping" to me. Aha that's your problem. You're assuming fleet sales are less profitable. Ford's fleet business is very profitable and healthy. Fleet dumping means either building vehicles for the sole purpose of selling them cheaply to rental companies or selling excess inventory the same way. Ford doesn't do that. They sell vehicles to rental fleets but they're not stripped down or sold at a huge discount like the 2006 Taurus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Please post your preferred definitions for those phrases sir. Month after month of 30%+ fleet sales, which by definition are less profitable than retail sales, is "fleet dumping" to me. That's either convention, trend, or assumption and is quite antiquated. But it's not a definition. Someone already explained: "fleet dumping" = "purposely overbuilding, then selling to Hertz and Avis at a greatly reduced price in order to drive sales up." That does not happen with commercial and governmental fleet buyers who have actual budgets. EDIT: Basically what akirby said at the exact same time as me. Edited November 2, 2016 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Ford's sales are roughly 1/3 trucks and vans, 1/3 utilities and 1/3 cars. They've made record profits the last couple of years with high fleet sales. They are not over-relying on trucks nor are they fleet dumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Transit, Transit Connect, and Police Intercepters have significant retail customers? And what percentage of F-Series/SuperDuty is sold into fleets? Might I suggest it's more than a Ford Fusion? None of those vehicles are 'fleet only.' Be precise. We're not mind readers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) fleet sales ... by definition "Fleet" - 'a group of ... vehicles .. that are ... owned by one company' "sale" - 'the transfer of ownership of and title to property from one person to another for a price' 'Fleet' is a modifier that specifies the nature of the 'property' found in the definition of 'sale' Ergo: "Fleet sales" 'the transfer of ownership of and title to a group of vehicles from one person to another for a price' I certainly don't see anything in that definition about lower profits. Edited November 2, 2016 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) If there's any kind of discounts for fleet sales, it's more of a bulk order discount rather than a per unit discount which means profit margin takes less of a hit. Ford's fleet business has been totally changed since the 2008 crash. Edited November 2, 2016 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) If there's any kind of discounts for fleet sales, it's more of a bulk order discount rather than a per unit discount which means profit margin takes less of a hit. Ford offers both per unit discounts and tiered volume discounts for fleet sales. Here's the list of per unit discount for commercial fleet sales http://www.fleet.ford.com/edms/content?chronicleId=0900cad982ac4a26and here is the bulk order discount program http://www.fleet.ford.com/edms/content?chronicleId=0900cad9807d63bd (if the second link doesn't work go to http://www.fleet.ford.com/orders/incentives/and click on Commercial Fleet Advantage Program - CFAP I'm sure that similar discounts are offered to limo companies, taxicab operators, rental car firms, governments, etc. These price concessions are why fleet sales are less profitable than retail sales. Edited November 3, 2016 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) Ford offers both per unit discounts and tiered volume discounts for fleet sales. Here's the list of per unit discount for commercial fleet sales http://www.fleet.ford.com/edms/content?chronicleId=0900cad982ac4a26and here is the bulk order discount program http://www.fleet.ford.com/edms/content?chronicleId=0900cad9807d63bd (if the second link doesn't work go to http://www.fleet.ford.com/orders/incentives/and click on Commercial Fleet Advantage Program - CFAP I'm sure that similar discounts are offered to limo companies, taxicab operators, rental car firms, governments, etc. These price concessions are why fleet sales are less profitable than retail sales. You used a key word: less. There's still money to be made and its a part of doing business in the auto industry (unless you're Honda). Edited November 3, 2016 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 These price concessions are why fleet sales are less profitable than retail sales. Because retail sales always occur at MSRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Also, what is more profitable? 5,000 sales of half-ton Transits vs. 0 sales of half-ton GM vans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) Correct, Transit MSRP is up around $31,600, so with that $1.500 national fleet discount, that's still around $30K minimum to the fleet customer.....diesel is a $6K option. GM replaced its Express 150/250 production with Colorado/Canyon.. The Colorado starts at $20,055 but we know the majority sold are crew cab V6s, so that even a 4WD crew cab long box starts below $29K... that's before incentives. Dismissing the value fleet sales out of hand is very short sighted.... True fleet dumping where factories deliberately over build to increase manager bonuses and then dump into daily rentals has not occurred at GM, Ford or FCA for the last 8-10 years, The real reason for GM's retreating from daily rental sales was because of the lack of interest in buying outdated vehicles, the only way GM could make a profit was to sell those superseded Impala Limited and Classic Cruze and Classic Malibus to fleets, GM's cost base is just too high. Edited November 3, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Maybe we need an English lesson here as to the definition of "fleet only" and "fleet dumping"..... Be sure that lesson plan includes a definition of "citation", as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Please post your preferred definitions for those phrases sir. Month after month of 30%+ fleet sales, which by definition are less profitable than retail sales, is "fleet dumping" to me. Bzzt. Please cite the source for this definition in which a fleet sale IS less profitable than a retail sale. (Psst: You know fleet sales include more than rental agencies, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.