bzcat Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 hours ago, ausrutherford said: See my post above. The imported SUV is not the Mach E. Also, the Puma is going to be built in Romania, so that would not be considered an import. It's pretty obvious they are referring to Explorer. It won't be sold in all EU markets but it will be sold in Europe - e.g. Russia http://www.ford.ru/Cars/NewExplorerMCA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) I would find it very hard to believe that Ford would end production of the EcoSport in Romania just two years after starting it. I think Ford Eu will continue to offer both. Ford Romania's plant is also pretty sizable from its Daewoo days. I think it has a 250,000 unit capacity, which it never gotten close to under Ford. Edited January 25, 2019 by ausrutherford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.I. Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 The SUV imported in Europe that wil debut in the next months: Is not the Mach E Is not the Bronco Is not the next EcoSport Is not the next Escape/Kuga Could be the Maverick (baby Bronco) Could be the Explorer Could be another misterious SUV that nobody knows: Short C-SUV, another B-SUV, long C-SUV (7 seat Escape/Kuga)- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 hours ago, ausrutherford said: I would find it very hard to believe that Ford would end production of the EcoSport in Romania just two years after starting it. I think Ford Eu will continue to offer both. Ford Romania's plant is also pretty sizable from its Daewoo days. I think it has a 250,000 unit capacity, which it never gotten close to under Ford. I agree with this... Romania plant used to assembly B-Max as well so it has lots of idle capacity. EcoSport will be around to compete with the small B utility (e.g. VW T-Cross) Puma (or whatever it will be called) will be aimed at the large B utility (e.g. VW T-Roc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 18 hours ago, bzcat said: This looks about right except the SUV to be made at Hermosillio is CX758 the companion to the compact pickup P758. Given the dimension roughly in line with Transit Connect and longer wheelbase, I think this utility is going to be a 7 seater so a Long C, not a Short C. The replacement for EcoSport in North America is probably the Fiesta based "Puma" that was spotted in another thread. Not sure now where it will be sourced from right now. Ford's Short C strategy remains unclear. I thought it was going to be Maverick but the leak photo of Maverick suggest it is roughly the same size as Escape just with more butch look. Maybe the Short C vehicle was always going to be Focus Active... I was under the impression that the Maverick was going to be roughly the size of the current Escape or the First Gen Escape-thus the Short C designation since the new Escape will have a third row and grow a few inches. The Gen Z/Short C CUV has been mixed up in press over the years with the Mach E... I'm not sure why Ford would need two "Almost 3 row" C based Products with the Escape and whatever the CUV based on the pick up is. The current TC has a wheelbase of 105 to 120 inches...why not just build the TC with the upcoming Pickup in North America?! I was under the impression that the Focus Active would have just fallen under the Focus product codes also, if it ever came here. Who knows, maybe they just canned it with the reorg over the past 18 months or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Who knows is the right answer ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 No one has thought that the new SUV for Europe could be the Everest, it's now equipped with the 2.0 Ecoblue and 10-speed auto.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 11 hours ago, jpd80 said: No one has thought that the new SUV for Europe could be the Everest, it's now equipped with the 2.0 Ecoblue and 10-speed auto.. I guess Toyota sells the Prado is meaningful numbers, so that might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) The shocking part is that Land Cruiser's 5,000 sales a year are probably way more profitable than empty sales of Fiesta and Focus with a lot less effort. Equally, there would be nothing stopping the US selling the 3.3V6 hybrid Explorer in Europe but I think the Everest would be a better match with its 2.0 Ecoblue diesel plugging into an established T6 parts and servicing bin. (by Land cruiser, I mean the Landcruiser 120 (Prado), not the big Land Crab found elsewhere) Edited January 26, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 hours ago, jpd80 said: The shocking part is that Land Cruiser's 5,000 sales a year are probably way more profitable than empty sales of Fiesta and Focus with a lot less effort. Equally, there would be nothing stopping the US selling the 3.3V6 hybrid Explorer in Europe but I think the Everest would be a better match with its 2.0 Ecoblue diesel plugging into an established T6 parts and servicing bin. (by Land cruiser, I mean the Landcruiser 120 (Prado), not the big Land Crab found elsewhere) Oh trust me, I know. They stopped selling the LC200 in Europe a couple years ago. With diesel's starting to lose favor in Europe, selling the Explorer Hybrid alone would make sense. Lexus has been doing an exclusive hybrid lineup in Europe for years. But Everest makes more sense logistically. They already have the import channels from South Africa established. Little need to change much for EU spec since the Ranger already does that. Also, from a dealer level, service centers already know how to work on the T6. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Which is why Everest is a safe bet, it's basically incremental sales on the back if an established sales and service network, the 2.0 Ecoblue and 10-speed auto are the smart combo for European SUV and allows Ford to stay in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I'm guessing Ford Europe passed on the Everest in favor of Edge because the numbers didn't make sense before. And given the likely MSRP of Explorer vs. Everest, I don't think the math will work for Everest again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, bzcat said: I'm guessing Ford Europe passed on the Everest in favor of Edge because the numbers didn't make sense before. And given the likely MSRP of Explorer vs. Everest, I don't think the math will work for Everest again. Either one would work in Europe in a fashion.. (Edge is more of a replacement for faltering S-max sales). A few years ago there wasn't a perceived need for the larger 3-row SUV as Ford Europe has Grand C-Max, S-Max and Galaxy but now that all of those have fallen out of favor, Ford would be looking to something more profitable to sell. I just don't see Explorer getting a start because of the complexities of Euro crash rules across so many countries versus Everest basically back ending Ranger sales, Everest is like an incremental addition to Ranger sales where as Explorer would require a whole new line of servicing and parts. A quick thumbnail on Ranger Vs Everest pricing and Ranger Vs Explorer would suggest that they are similar starting price depending on base equipment level. I think it will come down to a capacity and availability situation as Everest is already through developed for Euro regs and available in LHD and RHD.....(Since there's definitely no RHD plan for Explorer) Edited January 28, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 5:14 PM, jpd80 said: The shocking part is that Land Cruiser's 5,000 sales a year are probably way more profitable than empty sales of Fiesta and Focus with a lot less effort. Equally, there would be nothing stopping the US selling the 3.3V6 hybrid Explorer in Europe but I think the Everest would be a better match with its 2.0 Ecoblue diesel plugging into an established T6 parts and servicing bin. (by Land cruiser, I mean the Landcruiser 120 (Prado), not the big Land Crab found elsewhere) Throw both out and see what sticks? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Throw both out and see what sticks? Hey, why not and, if you take UK out of the equation, then it's just LHD vehicles.... I'd love to know the combined mileage figure for the hybrid Explorer, if it's better than a diesel, then that may be a big plus over small efficient diesel in Everest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, jpd80 said: Either one would work in Europe in a fashion.. (Edge is more of a replacement for faltering S-max sales). A few years ago there wasn't a perceived need for the larger 3-row SUV as Ford Europe has Grand C-Max, S-Max and Galaxy but now that all of those have fallen out of favor, Ford would be looking to something more profitable to sell. I just don't see Explorer getting a start because of the complexities of Euro crash rules across so many countries versus Everest basically back ending Ranger sales, Everest is like an incremental addition to Ranger sales where as Explorer would require a whole new line of servicing and parts. A quick thumbnail on Ranger Vs Everest pricing and Ranger Vs Explorer would suggest that they are similar starting price depending on base equipment level. I think it will come down to a capacity and availability situation as Everest is already through developed for Euro regs and available in LHD and RHD.....(Since there's definitely no RHD plan for Explorer) Ford needs a 3-row utility in Europe but not a body on frame one... that's not what the market is asking for and it won't sell. Landcruiser Prado sells in small numbers in Europe, primarily because it is a capable 4x4 that rural buyers like, not because it has 7 seats. In fact, the 3rd row in Prado is grossly inadequate. Explorer will be competing with the likes of Land Rover Discovery... something that appeals to suburban families not rural farmers. Now granted, Everest is a lot more civilized than Prado but it is still nonetheless a pickup truck with enclosed rear cabin. I don't think that is the kind of vehicle Ford dealers in Europe are asking for. Not sure what you are talking about crash rules... Euro NCAP is used by all European (and many Asian and African) countries, including non-EU states like Russia. I have trouble believing that Ford didn't engineer Explorer to pass Euro NCAP since it is basically the same standards used by Russia and China. What Ford Europe really needs is 7 seat Edge... and the fact that Ford can only source that vehicle from China is probably the reason why it's not for sale everywhere. Explorer is the closest alternative. And lastly, I will just remind everyone that Ford already sells Explorer in Europe, and have done so pretty much uninterrupted for the last 15 years. So it is not introducing a new line. Ford already support existing Explorer service and parts. Ford doesn't sell Explorer in every European countries but you can probably drive in to any dealers and get basic service done. And they can probably order any parts you want. Edited January 29, 2019 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, bzcat said: Ford needs a 3-row utility in Europe but not a body on frame one... that's not what the market is asking for and it won't sell. Landcruiser Prado sells in small numbers in Europe, primarily because it is a capable 4x4 that rural buyers like, not because it has 7 seats. In fact, the 3rd row in Prado is grossly inadequate. Explorer will be competing with the likes of Land Rover Discovery... something that appeals to suburban families not rural farmers. Now granted, Everest is a lot more civilized than Prado but it is still nonetheless a pickup truck with enclosed rear cabin. I don't think that is the kind of vehicle Ford dealers in Europe are asking for. Or maybe sales are small because Toyota has relatively low sales traction in Europe........ While Everest is more than Ranger station-wagon, a fair few people in Europe will probably see it that way...and the success of Ranger could that be another reason for Ford to include Everest and back end onto the increasing popularity. Quote Not sure what you are talking about crash rules... Euro NCAP is used by all European (and many Asian and African) countries, including non-EU states like Russia. I have trouble believing that Ford didn't engineer Explorer to pass Euro NCAP since it is basically the same standards used by Russia and China. OK so no impediment to importing to Western Europe...you still haven't addressed CAP's production capacity issue, they're pretty much maxed out with North American and Middle East and Russian supply. I doubt that there's enough hybrid production space to accommodate the Euro market. Especially when we consider how much has been earmarked for PIU hybrid as standard equipment. Quote What Ford Europe really needs is 7 seat Edge... and the fact that Ford can only source that vehicle from China is probably the reason why it's not for sale everywhere. Explorer is the closest alternative. A seven seat Edge is more cramped than Everest, that's why Ford hasn't been in a hurry to deploy it world wide. I just don't see Explorer as a good fit in Europe, it's too big and too wide for a lot of streets. Quote And lastly, I will just remind everyone that Ford already sells Explorer in Europe, and have done so pretty much uninterrupted for the last 15 years. So it is not introducing a new line. Ford already support existing Explorer service and parts. As explained above, "Europe" = Russia, not Western Europe (Germany, UK, France, Italy......) Edited January 29, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, jpd80 said: Hey, why not and, if you take UK out of the equation, then it's just LHD vehicles.... I'd love to know the combined mileage figure for the hybrid Explorer, if it's better than a diesel, then that may be a big plus over small efficient diesel in Everest. Yeah, I think the anti-diesel movement has to come in to play too. 13 hours ago, jpd80 said: Or maybe sales are small because Toyota has relatively low sales traction in Europe........ While Everest is more than Ranger station-wagon, a fair few people in Europe will probably see it that way...and the success of Ranger could that be another reason for Ford to include Everest and back end onto the increasing popularity. OK so no impediment to importing to Western Europe...you still haven't addressed CAP's production capacity issue, they're pretty much maxed out with North American and Middle East and Russian supply. I doubt that there's enough hybrid production space to accommodate the Euro market. Especially when we consider how much has been earmarked for PIU hybrid as standard equipment. A seven seat Edge is more cramped than Everest, that's why Ford hasn't been in a hurry to deploy it world wide. I just don't see Explorer as a good fit in Europe, it's too big and too wide for a lot of streets. As explained above, "Europe" = Russia, not Western Europe (Germany, UK, France, Italy......) Aren't they set to produce Explorer (and Aviator) in China? Could it come from there, and leave CAP production for US only? I also wonder about the interior. Explorer's interior will be much nicer than Everest's - which will appeal more to European buyers? If EcoSport is any indication... Edited January 29, 2019 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 18 hours ago, jpd80 said: As explained above, "Europe" = Russia, not Western Europe (Germany, UK, France, Italy......) Now we are going circular... I was the one that pointed out Russia is in Europe. As it that wasn't obvious enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 hour ago, bzcat said: Now we are going circular... I was the one that pointed out Russia is in Europe. As it that wasn't obvious enough Well, it depends. Ford Sollers is under Ford Europe, Africa, and Middle East, but is not under "Europe" in terms of sales. When Ford of Europe announces sales or vehicles to sell in "Europe", they do not include Russia. Ford Sollers is its own animal there. So, when Ford Europe says they are going to showcase a new import, they are not talking about one just for Russia, they are referencing Ford's Euro 24 + Baltic States (Baltic States run through Ford Finland, do not ask me why). Ford Turkey is similar. Its sales are not announced with Ford Europe sales. Same goes for nameplates. For example, the Ford Ka does not sell in Turkey (although, they should!). In other words, just because Ford already sells the Explorer in "Europe"... does not mean Ford sells the Explorer is Ford-defined Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I guess we'll have to wait until April.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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