dealer markup

[akirby]

you must be a sales guy because you don't fucking listen.

Dealer markups that exceed MSRP are illegal. Go look it up.

 

Taking a loss on unpopular modeals. So you need to place an illegal surcharge on a popular model becuase you stocked up on lime green Tauruses. And this is my problem how?

Again, this isn't about making money. Its about taking advantage f customers with ILLEGAL dealer surcharges.

But guess what? You're the guys losing the sales to the Toy and Honda dealers. So keep arguing on why you are within your rights to drive customers to anoither automaker. Your loss. Not mine. 50 years of fucking your customers is coming to bite you in the ass. Now keep rationalizing it instead of doing something about it.

 

How about you go look it up and tell us where it says it's illegal - because it's not.

 

The "S" in MSRP stands for Suggested, otherwise it would be MMRP (Mandatory).

 

And you can't "take advantage" of anyone who voluntarily pays above MSRP. It's a free country.

[taxman100]

If you don't want to pay the mark-up, don't buy the car.

 

Wait two years - Ford will flood the market with them if they can make a good profit.

[partsisparts]

you must be a sales guy because you don't fucking listen.

Dealer markups that exceed MSRP are illegal. Go look it up.

 

Taking a loss on unpopular modeals. So you need to place an illegal surcharge on a popular model becuase you stocked up on lime green Tauruses. And this is my problem how?

Again, this isn't about making money. Its about taking advantage f customers with ILLEGAL dealer surcharges.

But guess what? You're the guys losing the sales to the Toy and Honda dealers. So keep arguing on why you are within your rights to drive customers to anoither automaker. Your loss. Not mine. 50 years of fucking your customers is coming to bite you in the ass. Now keep rationalizing it instead of doing something about it.

You do not know what you are talking about. Dealer's markups are not illegal. If they were, the attorney general in the dealers state would take action. We do have laws in this country.

It is called free enterprise. Look it up.

It is called supply and demand. Look it up.

You're right I was a Sales guy and Manager. I have 20 years in the biz. I forgot more about the car biz than you will ever know.I sold Hondas and Toyotas at thousands of dollars over window sticker. The deal was if you don't buy it I have 20 people who will. This has been going on for 50 years plus. It does not matter who the manufacturer is.

 

It does not matter about having slow selling models and making more money on the hot ones. You are in business to make money on EVERYBODY. That is how business works. If you do not want to pay the markup , don't buy the car.I was thrown out of a dealer myself last year when he did not want to give me my A-Plan benefit. I went to another store and bought the car for my A-Plan price.

The price a specialty car you cannot replace is whatever the market will bear. Period. Why should'nt the dealer take advantage of this? Are you the dealer's friend?Relative? Does the dealer owe you anything for gracing his show room with your presence. I think NOT.

[J-150]

How about you go look it up and tell us where it says it's illegal - because it's not.

 

The "S" in MSRP stands for Suggested, otherwise it would be MMRP (Mandatory).

 

And you can't "take advantage" of anyone who voluntarily pays above MSRP. It's a free country.

 

 

consumer protections laws (all states have them) state that a customer only has to pay the lower of two prices posted on a product. "Market adjustments" are a BS markup and therefore illegal if challenged. But no one feels like going to court over it.

 

You do not know what you are talking about. Dealer's markups are not illegal. If they were, the attorney general in the dealers state would take action. We do have laws in this country.

It is called free enterprise. Look it up.

It is called supply and demand. Look it up.

You're right I was a Sales guy and Manager. I have 20 years in the biz. I forgot more about the car biz than you will ever know.I sold Hondas and Toyotas at thousands of dollars over window sticker. The deal was if you don't buy it I have 20 people who will. This has been going on for 50 years plus. It does not matter who the manufacturer is.

 

It does not matter about having slow selling models and making more money on the hot ones. You are in business to make money on EVERYBODY. That is how business works. If you do not want to pay the markup , don't buy the car.I was thrown out of a dealer myself last year when he did not want to give me my A-Plan benefit. I went to another store and bought the car for my A-Plan price.

The price a specialty car you cannot replace is whatever the market will bear. Period. Why should'nt the dealer take advantage of this? Are you the dealer's friend?Relative? Does the dealer owe you anything for gracing his show room with your presence. I think NOT.

 

 

Guess what? I don't care how the dealer feels about it. I know how I feel and if a Toy or Honda dealer is prepared to not play headgames, Ford/GM/DCX just lost. And wanna know something else? Every month hundreds of thousands are switching for the same reason.

 

 

SO, like I said, Keep rationalizing. You're the guys going out of business.

 

If you don't want to pay the mark-up, don't buy the car.

 

Wait two years - Ford will flood the market with them if they can make a good profit.

 

 

 

Ford customers are tired of waiting... for anything. All issues are answered with "just wait"

 

Every month sees more and more customers not waiting by buying from another make.

[ironhorse]

you must be a sales guy because you don't fucking listen.

Dealer markups that exceed MSRP are illegal. Go look it up.

 

 

Untrue. I can sell any vehicle for any price. The government can't restrict free trade.

[marc-o]

If you don't want to pay the mark-up, don't buy the car.

 

Wait two years - Ford will flood the market with them if they can make a good profit.

 

Seems like that's all there is to it...case closed - sunrise, sunset.

 

If any of you feel like paying a lawyer to sue your local Ford dealer because you think they are asking too much for a car you want, go ahead, let us know what happens :shrug:

[partsisparts]

consumer protections laws (all states have them) state that a customer only has to pay the lower of two prices posted on a product. "Market adjustments" are a BS markup and therefore illegal if challenged. But no one feels like going to court over it.

Guess what? I don't care how the dealer feels about it. I know how I feel and if a Toy or Honda dealer is prepared to not play headgames, Ford/GM/DCX just lost. And wanna know something else? Every month hundreds of thousands are switching for the same reason.

SO, like I said, Keep rationalizing. You're the guys going out of business.

Ford customers are tired of waiting... for anything. All issues are answered with "just wait"

 

Every month sees more and more customers not waiting by buying from another make.

 

People sue car dealers for just about anything these days. Also, the attorney general does not need a lawsuit to act. If his office gets a complaint they look into it. The cars that sell over sticker the most are the exact cars your telling me the customers are flocking to when they are not happy thier American car dealer.Toyotas and Hondas. I have a friend who sells Mercedes' and he sells most of his units at sticker or above. The more expensive cars commanding the most over sticker. And besides it is not the deal you get,it's the deal you think you get. :happy feet:

[J-150]

Untrue. I can sell any vehicle for any price. The government can't restrict free trade.

 

 

 

no, but the government can restrict illegal trade practices.

 

 

But that's okay. Keep thinking its okay. Your loss when your customers don't come back at trade in time.

[ironhorse]

no, but the government can restrict illegal trade practices.

But that's okay. Keep thinking its okay. Your loss when your customers don't come back at trade in time.

 

I'm not saying it's OK or not,but your assertion that a dealership marks up a vehicle over the manufacture's "SUGGESTED" retail price is illegal is flat wrong on your part.

 

Another misconception on your part is that customers are always mad when they pay over on a vehicle. If a vehicle is that desirable,usually customers are thankful that they have an opportunity to own it.

 

Premium vehicles are a rare exception rather than the rule,especially for a domestic.

[bec5150]

In Ohio, a vehicle, be it motorcycle or automobile, canNOT be sold for a dime over MSRP. The only thing we can add to MSRP is a documentation fee of $300 max and a title fee of $15.

 

Furthermore, if the dealer comes "down" on price, fine, but they cannot boost it back up by adding "freight and prep" or "dealer setup" which used to be common practice. Any rebates or customer cash have to be added a certain way, sometimes after the full amount of the transaction is taxed, other times before.

 

Some dealers get around this buy adding a bug shield and pinstriping and charging $1000 for a "dealer installed appearance package" but it must be clearly stated on an additional window sticker.

 

For more about Ohio law..

 

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/press/04/04/pres...se_20040406.asp

 

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/citizen/pubs/con...es_2003_web.pdf

[akirby]

In Ohio, a vehicle, be it motorcycle or automobile, canNOT be sold for a dime over MSRP. The only thing we can add to MSRP is a documentation fee of $300 max and a title fee of $15.

 

Furthermore, if the dealer comes "down" on price, fine, but they cannot boost it back up by adding "freight and prep" or "dealer setup" which used to be common practice. Any rebates or customer cash have to be added a certain way, sometimes after the full amount of the transaction is taxed, other times before.

 

Some dealers get around this buy adding a bug shield and pinstriping and charging $1000 for a "dealer installed appearance package" but it must be clearly stated on an additional window sticker.

 

For more about Ohio law..

 

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/press/04/04/pres...se_20040406.asp

 

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/citizen/pubs/con...es_2003_web.pdf

 

 

BZZZZT....try again. Nothing in those 2 links says that it's illegal for the dealer to increase the selling price of a vehicle above MSRP.

[bec5150]

BZZZZT....try again. Nothing in those 2 links says that it's illegal for the dealer to increase the selling price of a vehicle above MSRP.

I used the term "MSRP" but honestly, I misquoted...it was late. What I meant was the price on the vehicle has to be what the dealer charges. Yes, you are right, the dealer can line out and put any price he wants, but then that's the price...no additional charges at the finance table.

 

The argument that a dealer can't raise the price is really not valid, but what some dealers in OH were doing was adding additional cost without informing the customer.

Edited October 21, 2006 by bec5150

[akirby]

What IS illegal is not disclosing that type of fee up front and burying it in the paperwork later.

[J-150]

I used the term "MSRP" but honestly, I misquoted...it was late. What I meant was the price on the vehicle has to be what the dealer charges. Yes, you are right, the dealer can line out and put any price he wants, but then that's the price...no additional charges at the finance table.

 

The argument that a dealer can't raise the price is really not valid, but what some dealers in OH were doing was adding additional cost without informing the customer.

 

 

Increasing the price is not illegal. Raising it above a posted MSRP is what is illegal.

 

You sales guys may think its okay, but look look up the consumer protection laws in your state. They are quite clear on the rules regarding 2 prices on a product/service.

 

 

And of course, sales guys don't fucking listen. You continue to justify where I've said I don't really give a fuck what you think is legal or not. I know what isn't and I also know where mine and many thousands of other speoples money is going... and it ain't to a Ford dealer.

 

Have fun on the unemployment line.

[Keyser Soze]

Increasing the price is not illegal. Raising it above a posted MSRP is what is illegal.

 

You sales guys may think its okay, but look look up the consumer protection laws in your state. They are quite clear on the rules regarding 2 prices on a product/service.

And of course, sales guys don't fucking listen. You continue to justify where I've said I don't really give a fuck what you think is legal or not. I know what isn't and I also know where mine and many thousands of other speoples money is going... and it ain't to a Ford dealer.

 

Have fun on the unemployment line.

 

You're the one who refuses to listen. When a dealer adds a market value adjustment, the bottom line MSRP is removed and usually replaced with a "see AMV sticker" or something else. This sticker is normally placed right beside the factory window sticker. Do you really think any dealer doesn't know to do this? You're trying to prove your point on a technicality that does not apply in the real world.

 

BTW, as I remember Nissan dealers did the same thing with the last of the twin turbo 300ZX's and Toyota did it with the turbo Supra's. I also saw a Subaru dealer with AMV stickers on the early STi's with manual transmissions. Most car dealers that get hold of a high demand, low availability car will add market value. Why? Because temporarily, the car is worth more. If you bought a Shelby at MSRP today, you could turn around and sell it for thousands over what you paid. Perhaps this should be ilegal. How do you feel about Ferrari refusing to sell you an F40 without a backround check? That's right. Even with cash in hand you could not buy a new F40 unless you had some sort of racing involvement. I guess that's OK because Ford owes you the car wou want.

 

What makes anyone think they have a legal right to buy any car at the price they wish to pay? Price too high? Don't buy it. It isn't like Ford has a monopoly on heart medication and prices it above your means. It's just a car. You don't NEED it.

 

Maybe you would like to have MSRP enforced by law. That would be great for the consumer. You do realize that almost every new car sold today is discounted by the DEALER to some extent. Maybe you would like to end this. Can't have it both ways, you know. Or maybe you think you can? The government should cap dealer profits but not their losses. Horseshit.

 

I have to laugh when I people call salespeople scumbags and such. I don't know where you work, but I'm sure at some point your company must sell something in order to pay your salary. I guess you don't mind your company's sales force doing its job, right? You know what their job is? To make the company the most money possible.

 

BTW, exactly what cars from Toyota and Honda would a serious Shelby customer be interested in? I can see it now, "Damn Ford dealers! I'll show them! Instead of paying extra for that Shelby I'm getting a Camry Hybrid! Up yours Ford!" If you're suggesting that a Fusion buyer would be so offended by the pricing of a car they are not even looking to buy that they would get an Accord instead, I 'd like to see it. Probably not enough people in that category to have a good poker game.

 

Just for the record, I'm not a car salesman. I'm a reasonable human being. Something that seems in short supply these days. If you can't afford a Shelby, hard cheese old chap. Somehow you'll probably survive.

[ironhorse]

Increasing the price is not illegal. Raising it above a posted MSRP is what is illegal.

 

You sales guys may think its okay, but look look up the consumer protection laws in your state. They are quite clear on the rules regarding 2 prices on a product/service.

And of course, sales guys don't fucking listen. You continue to justify where I've said I don't really give a fuck what you think is legal or not. I know what isn't and I also know where mine and many thousands of other speoples money is going... and it ain't to a Ford dealer.

 

Have fun on the unemployment line.

 

 

I don't know why you have such a hard-on for Ford dealerships and their salespeople. Of all the automobile dealerships, Ford has the least instances of vehicles sold over the "SUGGESTED" list price.

 

 

The problem with you is that you have been exposed as somebody that really don't know what they are talking about,so you you throw a lot of 4 letter words around, throw a temper tantrum,and complain that we don't listen...I think you are the one with a comprehension problem ,not us "sales guys".

Edited October 21, 2006 by ironhorse

[J-150]

I don't know why you have such a hard-on for Ford dealerships and their salespeople. Of all the automobile dealerships, Ford has the least instances of vehicles sold over the "SUGGESTED" list price.

The problem with you is that you have been exposed as somebody that really don't know what they are talking about,so you you throw a lot of 4 letter words around, throw a temper tantrum,and complain that we don't listen...I think you are the one with a comprehension problem ,not us "sales guys".

 

 

yep. me and hundreds of thousands that have been screwed over by dealerships.

 

have fun on the unemployment line

[ironhorse]

yep. me and hundreds of thousands that have been screwed over by dealerships.

 

have fun on the unemployment line

 

 

Explain how you were "screwed over" by the big bad car dealer. BTW we are having a record year. New is down,but all other dealer operations are doing quite well.

 

I'll bet you are a joy to be around. Have fun bitching and complaining,and making up stories about the mean old car salesman that screwed you over.

[akirby]

yep. me and hundreds of thousands that have been screwed over by dealerships.

 

have fun on the unemployment line

 

You mean the dealer held a gun to your head and forced you to buy a car at their price? Call the cops!

 

Lots of people get screwed buying a retail product, but only if they don't do their homework and don't pay attention. If you got screwed, it's your own fault.

[ironhorse]

You mean the dealer held a gun to your head and forced you to buy a car at their price? Call the cops!

 

Lots of people get screwed buying a retail product, but only if they don't do their homework and don't pay attention. If you got screwed, it's your own fault.

 

 

BINGO!!! I don't think personal responsibility is in J-150's vocabulary.

[partsisparts]

yep. me and hundreds of thousands that have been screwed over by dealerships.

 

have fun on the unemployment line

It seems to me that it is OK with you for a dealer to discount a car but not OK to charge over sticker when the market commands it. Where do you get off? You are an arrogant person who does not know anything about business at all. YOU are the one that does not listen. I have never charged a person over sticker for a car who did not want to pay it. :shrug: Period. Nobody is forcing them.

 

IF YOU WANT PLAY YOU HAVE TO PAY.

As I am writing this my friend is delivering a Shelby at 15k over sticker. The guy who is buying it is happy as hell to get the car. He can afford a 58000 dollar toy. He has the money. Maybe the problem is J you don't. You see to some people the money does not matter.

[OAC_Sparky]

I have no issue with dealers making money.

 

I even haven't got a problem with dealers making a ~~modest~~ adjustment on vehicle prices on high demand vehicles.

 

But, come on now. Some of these "adjustments" are utterly horrendous.

 

Don't they realize the damage that they do to Ford -- and in the end, themselves?

 

I mean, even if they don't give a damn about Ford, don't they see the ill-will that they create for their own dealership?

 

It seems that sometimes dealers have a "real estate broker" mentality. Well, the car business isn't real estate. People want to live in a certain area for certain reasons. They can't move to Japan or Germany or Korea to live. And houses appreciate in value, not depreciate. That's why people are willing to pay what they pay for houses.

 

But cars are different. You screw over a potential customer they CAN go to Japanese, German or Korean car makers.

 

You'd think that dealers would get this.

[ironhorse]

The customers I sell the premium vehicles to have not had any "ill-will". They are premium customers,and are treated like royalty at my store.

 

I have found that the people that have a problem with the market adjustments are usually the folks that are jealous of the people buying them and jealous of the people who are selling them.

[partsisparts]

The customers I sell the premium vehicles to have not had any "ill-will". They are premium customers,and are treated like royalty at my store.

 

I have found that the people that have a problem with the market adjustments are usually the folks that are jealous of the people buying them and jealous of the people who are selling them.

You hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never forced a person to pay a premium on a car. I never had an unhappy person pay a premium on a car. They have the money and want the car. They are willing to pay what it takes. I think for them is a status symbol.

[ironhorse]

The most ill-will comes when I have only have 2 vehicles to sell,and 10 customers willing to buy. mind you a person that has the ability and desire to pay a premium,is very dissapointed when I can't fill their need....It's never about the premium we charge.