2022 Tow Guide and Tire Options

[chadstickpoindexter]

6 hours ago, Robin Hood said:

 

Why are you buying a F250 if you want the max ratings?

 

Umm… because I don’t need a 350. With what your saying though, why would you want a 350, why not a 450? You see how that can go… on and on…
 

After looking at the numbers on higher trim 250’s than mine (more options/weight) I am now anticipating a 2800-2900 lb payload in my 250 set up, and I actually don’t need it for what I’m currently doing, but is there something wrong with getting the most out of whichever truck we choose to go with? By making sure the ratings are listed correctly I am future proofing this 250, which will be all we’ll ever need. We have no plans or wants for a 5th wheel (didn’t even get the package… and if we were planning to get a 5er we would just go with a 450) and while we may upgrade our current camper years down the road, it’ll still be under 10k. So there’s no need for a 350, but I feel justified in wanting to make sure that what I am getting is the most I can get out of it. Besides that, there really won’t be any differences between my 250 and a stock 350 since I upgraded both front and rear ends, so it really kind of is a 350, but with badging and paperwork for a 250 (less registration issues/costs in some areas).

 

So, do you have any thoughts on the question about the tires…?

[harmacist]

2 hours ago, chadstickpoindexter said:

Umm… because I don’t need a 350. With what your saying though, why would you want a 350, why not a 450? You see how that can go… on and on…
 

After looking at the numbers on higher trim 250’s than mine (more options/weight) I am now anticipating a 2800-2900 lb payload in my 250 set up, and I actually don’t need it for what I’m currently doing, but is there something wrong with getting the most out of whichever truck we choose to go with? By making sure the ratings are listed correctly I am future proofing this 250, which will be all we’ll ever need. We have no plans or wants for a 5th wheel (didn’t even get the package… and if we were planning to get a 5er we would just go with a 450) and while we may upgrade our current camper years down the road, it’ll still be under 10k. So there’s no need for a 350, but I feel justified in wanting to make sure that what I am getting is the most I can get out of it. Besides that, there really won’t be any differences between my 250 and a stock 350 since I upgraded both front and rear ends, so it really kind of is a 350, but with badging and paperwork for a 250 (less registration issues/costs in some areas).

 

So, do you have any thoughts on the question about the tires…?

Completely agree with you, get the most bang for your buck and get what you might need no need to go way overboard for something you’ll never use. Plus I ordered a 350SRW (don’t want or need a dually) and the listed tire issues span the 350s as well as the 250s so you would have the same issue anyway

[Robin Hood]

5 hours ago, chadstickpoindexter said:

Umm… because I don’t need a 350. With what your saying though, why would you want a 350, why not a 450? You see how that can go… on and on…
 

After looking at the numbers on higher trim 250’s than mine (more options/weight) I am now anticipating a 2800-2900 lb payload in my 250 set up, and I actually don’t need it for what I’m currently doing, but is there something wrong with getting the most out of whichever truck we choose to go with? By making sure the ratings are listed correctly I am future proofing this 250, which will be all we’ll ever need. We have no plans or wants for a 5th wheel (didn’t even get the package… and if we were planning to get a 5er we would just go with a 450) and while we may upgrade our current camper years down the road, it’ll still be under 10k. So there’s no need for a 350, but I feel justified in wanting to make sure that what I am getting is the most I can get out of it. Besides that, there really won’t be any differences between my 250 and a stock 350 since I upgraded both front and rear ends, so it really kind of is a 350, but with badging and paperwork for a 250 (less registration issues/costs in some areas).

 

So, do you have any thoughts on the question about the tires…?

 

Sorry I got off topic ...I can't find the 2022 tow guide, post up a link to the actual guide and I'll look thru it.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Robin Hood

[chadstickpoindexter]

I posted a screenshot of the towing guide that we are talking about in one of the first few posts over on page 1 of this thread, but if you want to look through the whole guide, here is a link to the 2022 Ford Towing Guide. The part in question is in the F250 Conventional Guide on page 5, and then it is mentioned again under "Required Equipment" on page 10.

 

Also here is a link to the typically used Continental ContiTrac LT275/65 R18E A/S tires, which have a Load Index of 123, a Load Range E and the Max Load of 3,415 lbs.

And here is a link to the typically used Goodyear Wrangler LT 275/70 R18E A/T tires, which has a Load Index of 125, a Load Range E and a Max Load of 3,640 lbs.

 

(Notice the higher rating of the A/T tires over the A/S tires...)

 

In the towing guide on page 10 (top left corner) it states: 

"F-250: For 20,000-pound conventional tow rating – High-Capacity Trailer Tow Package (535) with 18" All-Season or 20" All-Terrain Tires."

 

Then on page 5 when following the line across the chart for the 6.7 engine with 3.31 gears at 30,000 lbs GCWR (trucks with the HCTT/535 package equipped for F250's) this comes up again.

 

The truck I ordered is a 6.7 V8 with 3.31 gears with the HCTT package, Crew Cab, 4X4 159"WB 6-3/4' Box. For this truck on this chart the listed ratings for "Conventional Towing" is simply listed at 20,000 lbs....but is noted that this is if 18" A/S or 20" A/T tires are equipped. (Also notice that on the line below for the 6.7, 3.55, 30,000 GCWR Tremor package, 2 weights *ARE* listed: 20,000 lbs - again with 18" A/S or 20" A/T tires, neither of which the Tremors come with since they come with 35" Off Road A/T tires *on an 18" wheel*, and 15,000 lbs - if equipped with the Tremor package.)

 

So this leaves 2 questions:

 

1. What is the conventional tow rating of the standard (non Tremor) F250 with the HCTT package and 18" (non Tremor) A/T tires? 

2. How can the tow rating be higher with the lower rated 18" A/S tires over the higher rated 18" (non Tremor) A/T tires?

 

IMO, this is some sort of a typo. I have looked at the 2022, 2021 and the 2020 Towing guides and they are all the same, so maybe a copy and paste from year to year... Or maybe it has something to do with the Tremor package also technically being an 18" A/T tire and the wording is just all screwed up... Maybe the correct wording is that the Conventional Towing is 20,000 lbs for the standard F250's with the HCTT package and no Tremor package, but with the Tremor package it is 15,000 lbs. 

 

It just doesn't make sense that a lower rated A/S tire would offer more towing capacity, and by how much? No way that the lower rated A/S tire will offer 5000 lbs more towing capacity than a higher rated A/T tire... 

 

So, after 2 pages of this topic now, my only concern is will my truck somehow be permanently derated since I went with the regular 18" A/T tires over the regular 18" A/S tires? I don't think it will, but after spending money on both the snow plow/camper package to max out the front end, and the the HCTT package to max out the rear end I would be very disappointed if it did. I know that without the HCTT package the max GVWR on the F250 is 10k. I don't have a truck to look around on, but is the "max towing capacity" listed somewhere on the truck that won't change like the GVWR is?

Edited July 4, 2021 by chadstickpoindexter

[HotRunrGuy]

Chad,

   Look at this rig.  If it's the right combination, maybe call the dealer and ask him to give you the pertinent numbers?

 

https://shop.ford.com/inventory/superduty/details/1FT8W2BT1MEE05104?fromPopularBuild=false&zipcode=60185&year=2021&ownerPACode=02474&fromDetails=true&Radius=20&Dealer=02697&Engine=6_7l_4_valve_ohv_power_stroke_v8_turbo_diesel&Drive=4x4&Cab=crew_cab&Order=Distance

 

HRG

 

250 HCTT 18's.pdf

[chadstickpoindexter]

29 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Chad,

   Look at this rig.  If it's the right combination, maybe call the dealer and ask him to give you the pertinent numbers?

 

https://shop.ford.com/inventory/superduty/details/1FT8W2BT1MEE05104?fromPopularBuild=false&zipcode=60185&year=2021&ownerPACode=02474&fromDetails=true&Radius=20&Dealer=02697&Engine=6_7l_4_valve_ohv_power_stroke_v8_turbo_diesel&Drive=4x4&Cab=crew_cab&Order=Distance

 

HRG

 

250 HCTT 18's.pdf

 

That is the closest setup to what I have ordered than I have seen elsewhere! Thanks. I will call Monday and see what they have to say.

[HotRunrGuy]

1 hour ago, chadstickpoindexter said:

 

That is the closest setup to what I have ordered than I have seen elsewhere! Thanks. I will call Monday and see what they have to say.

 

The good news is, this truck REALLY exists, not some "phantom" inventory.  Sitting in front of the dealership.  Goodyear Wranglers on it.

 

HRG

[Robin Hood]

2 hours ago, chadstickpoindexter said:

I posted a screenshot of the towing guide that we are talking about in one of the first few posts over on page 1 of this thread, but if you want to look through the whole guide, here is a link to the 2022 Ford Towing Guide. The part in question is in the F250 Conventional Guide on page 5, and then it is mentioned again under "Required Equipment" on page 10.

 

Also here is a link to the typically used Continental ContiTrac LT275/65 R18E A/S tires, which have a Load Index of 123, a Load Range E and the Max Load of 3,415 lbs.

And here is a link to the typically used Goodyear Wrangler LT 275/70 R18E A/T tires, which has a Load Index of 125, a Load Range E and a Max Load of 3,640 lbs.

 

(Notice the higher rating of the A/T tires over the A/S tires...)

 

In the towing guide on page 10 (top left corner) it states: 

"F-250: For 20,000-pound conventional tow rating – High-Capacity Trailer Tow Package (535) with 18" All-Season or 20" All-Terrain Tires."

 

Then on page 5 when following the line across the chart for the 6.7 engine with 3.31 gears at 30,000 lbs GCWR (trucks with the HCTT/535 package equipped for F250's) this comes up again.

 

The truck I ordered is a 6.7 V8 with 3.31 gears with the HCTT package, Crew Cab, 4X4 159"WB 6-3/4' Box. For this truck on this chart the listed ratings for "Conventional Towing" is simply listed at 20,000 lbs....but is noted that this is if 18" A/S or 20" A/T tires are equipped. (Also notice that on the line below for the 6.7, 3.55, 30,000 GCWR Tremor package, 2 weights *ARE* listed: 20,000 lbs - again with 18" A/S or 20" A/T tires, neither of which the Tremors come with since they come with 35" Off Road A/T tires *on an 18" wheel*, and 15,000 lbs - if equipped with the Tremor package.)

 

So this leaves 2 questions:

 

1. What is the conventional tow rating of the standard (non Tremor) F250 with the HCTT package and 18" (non Tremor) A/T tires? 

2. How can the tow rating be higher with the lower rated 18" A/S tires over the higher rated 18" (non Tremor) A/T tires?

 

IMO, this is some sort of a typo. I have looked at the 2022, 2021 and the 2020 Towing guides and they are all the same, so maybe a copy and paste from year to year... Or maybe it has something to do with the Tremor package also technically being an 18" A/T tire and the wording is just all screwed up... Maybe the correct wording is that the Conventional Towing is 20,000 lbs for the standard F250's with the HCTT package and no Tremor package, but with the Tremor package it is 15,000 lbs. 

 

It just doesn't make sense that a lower rated A/S tire would offer more towing capacity, and by how much? No way that the lower rated A/S tire will offer 5000 lbs more towing capacity than a higher rated A/T tire... 

 

So, after 2 pages of this topic now, my only concern is will my truck somehow be permanently derated since I went with the regular 18" A/T tires over the regular 18" A/S tires? I don't think it will, but after spending money on both the snow plow/camper package to max out the front end, and the the HCTT package to max out the rear end I would be very disappointed if it did. I know that without the HCTT package the max GVWR on the F250 is 10k. I don't have a truck to look around on, but is the "max towing capacity" listed somewhere on the truck that won't change like the GVWR is?

 

My guess is that it has to do with the contact patch of an AT tire. It doesn't seem to apply on the 5th wheel rating that would have a direct load over the tire patch. I will say that my F350 LB with the FX4 package (18" AT tires) is way more loose on the rear end than my F350 LB with 20" AS tires. Just a thought that a 20K lb trailer could really push that AT tire around.

 

Have you seen or looked at the final version that was supposed to be available September 2021? Also, maybe someone can get there hands on the "dealer and reference “eSourceBook” Job Aid “Spec’ing F-Series Trucks for Towing”?  as referenced in the tow guide that you attached.

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Robin Hood

[chadstickpoindexter]

57 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

The good news is, this truck REALLY exists, not some "phantom" inventory.  Sitting in front of the dealership.  Goodyear Wranglers on it.

 

HRG

 

Are you near this dealership? If so I'd love if you could snap some photos of both the door jamb stickers! Also, being that this one is a 4x4 with the snow plow package I am curious which front springs it has.

 

56 minutes ago, Robin Hood said:

 

My guess is that it has to do with the contact patch of an AT tire. It doesn't seem to apply on the 5th wheel rating that would have a direct load over the tire patch. I will say that my F350 LB with the FX4 package (18" AT tires) is way more loose on the rear end than my F350 LB with 20" AS tires. Just a thought that a 20K lb trailer could really push that AT tire around.

 

Have you seen or looked at the final version that was supposed to be available September 2021? Also, maybe someone can get there hands on the "dealer and reference “eSourceBook” Job Aid “Spec’ing F-Series Trucks for Towing”?  as referenced in the tow guide that you attached.

 

 

 

 

So that's the thing... in the towing guide there is no mention of a lesser rating for a F250 with the HCTT for the 5th wheel/gooseneck tow rating except for on the Tremor set up. This leads me to believe that the ratings on the conventional towing is a typo... otherwise, lesser rated tires would have a lesser capacity, no matter how the weight is applied. 

 

As far as other guides, the dealer looked through all the guides that they have and this is the only place this is mentioned, and still, no one can explain how a lesser rated tire would have result in a higher capacity. As well, if the listed 20,000 lbs isn't the actual rating, then there is no listed rating documented for this truck setup with 18" A/T (non Tremor) tires. It just doesn't make sense. Also, for what it's worth, I will never have anywhere near 20k towing on this truck, but like I mentioned earlier, I don't want any permanent derating on it for something silly like this. 

 

Also, just curious, if both of your 350's are the same year models and the same set up, is one rated more or less than the other on any of the ratings (GVWR, GCWR, towing capacities, etc...) Also, are the towing capacities permanently assigned to either truck anywhere like the GVWR or the payload is?

Edited July 4, 2021 by chadstickpoindexter

[HotRunrGuy]

9 minutes ago, chadstickpoindexter said:

 

Are you near this dealership? If so I'd love if you could snap some photos of both the door jamb stickers! Also, being that this one is a 4x4 with the snow plow package I am curious which front springs it has.

 

I'm about 15 minutes away, so I ran down there this afternoon (closed on Sundays) just to see if it was real. Unfortunately, I'm leaving town in the morning for the week, so hopefully someone from the dealership will be willing to take and send you those pictures.  If not, if it's still there after I get back, I'm willing to.

 

HRG

[Robin Hood]

1 hour ago, chadstickpoindexter said:

 

Are you near this dealership? If so I'd love if you could snap some photos of both the door jamb stickers! Also, being that this one is a 4x4 with the snow plow package I am curious which front springs it has.

 

 

So that's the thing... in the towing guide there is no mention of a lesser rating for a F250 with the HCTT for the 5th wheel/gooseneck tow rating except for on the Tremor set up. This leads me to believe that the ratings on the conventional towing is a typo... otherwise, lesser rated tires would have a lesser capacity, no matter how the weight is applied. 

 

As far as other guides, the dealer looked through all the guides that they have and this is the only place this is mentioned, and still, no one can explain how a lesser rated tire would have result in a higher capacity. As well, if the listed 20,000 lbs isn't the actual rating, then there is no listed rating documented for this truck setup with 18" A/T (non Tremor) tires. It just doesn't make sense. Also, for what it's worth, I will never have anywhere near 20k towing on this truck, but like I mentioned earlier, I don't want any permanent derating on it for something silly like this. 

 

Also, just curious, if both of your 350's are the same year models and the same set up, is one rated more or less than the other on any of the ratings (GVWR, GCWR, towing capacities, etc...) Also, are the towing capacities permanently assigned to either truck anywhere like the GVWR or the payload is?

 

I am not saying the tires are lower rated. I am suggesting that Ford may consider a AT tire to have less traction and may not recommend it for the higher load with a bumper pull trailer. I am not aware of any sticker or nameplate on either truck that states specific trailer tow capacity. Both trucks are F350's with GVWR of 11,500 lbs. The truck with the 20's is a 2017 and the truck with the 18" AT is a 2019 with an FX4 package. Personally, I wish you could get the hill descent without the FX4 package and AT tires.

 

I don't think your truck will be de-rated. I think based on your trim and accessories that Ford recommends a maximum trailer tow weight.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Robin Hood

[chadstickpoindexter]

29 minutes ago, Robin Hood said:

 

I am not saying the tires are lower rated. I am suggesting that Ford may consider a AT tire to have less traction and may not recommend it for the higher load with a bumper pull trailer. I am not aware of any sticker or nameplate on either truck that states specific trailer tow capacity. Both trucks are F350's with GVWR of 11,500 lbs. The truck with the 20's is a 2017 and the truck with the 18" AT is a 2019 with an FX4 package. Personally, I wish you could get the hill descent without the FX4 package and AT tires.

 

I don't think your truck will be de-rated. I think based on your trim and accessories that Ford recommends a maximum trailer tow weight.

 

I'll admit, having never owned a truck or having to worry about any of these tires, I am not very knowledgeable about the different tires and what's best for what application. I will also admit, just hearing "all terrain" seems like it would be a better tire for towing because of, well, the name itself. Maybe I am wrong though... I'll also admit, that wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong either... lol. 

 

I guess I'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for the feedback though!

[HotRunrGuy]

On 7/4/2021 at 3:33 PM, chadstickpoindexter said:

 

That is the closest setup to what I have ordered than I have seen elsewhere! Thanks. I will call Monday and see what they have to say.

 

Chad, make any progress on this?

 

HRG

[chadstickpoindexter]

Yes… as much as can be anyway. The dealer sent me the stickers, however the compression rate made them a bit hard to read. He resent them and they still aren’t super clear. I’ve attached them for anyone else interested. 
 

FWIW though, according to the window sticker, it comes with the snow plow package, the HCTT package, 4x4 and the 275/70R18 A/T tires. The only extra configuration that is on mine is the camper package. 
 

According to this trucks stickers, it has the 10800 GVWR and a 2853 lb payload! (That’s great for the diesel engine!) There is nothing that I know of that actually lists or ties a “tow rating” to this specific truck, so I’m thinking that it won’t make a difference in which tires I initially order…. So I’ll keep my order as is with the A/T tires. As well, I was very excited to see the payload of 2853 lbs! Mine doesn’t have the 5th wheel package like on this truck, as well as the include XLT Premium package or the Chrome package stuff, but the camper package on mine may zero that out (does anyone know how much weight this package would add?) and I expect my payload to be right about the same as this one!
 

It’s also interesting to see that the front springs are 5990’s. I keep seeing folks say 6000 lb springs but maybe they are talking about F350’s. I wonder if these are the same springs but they just put a 10 lb reduction sticker on the ones that go on the 250’s to debate the 250?
 

Thanks for sending this info over! 

Edited July 9, 2021 by chadstickpoindexter

[Radio]

On 7/4/2021 at 5:44 PM, HotRunrGuy said:

 

The good news is, this truck REALLY exists, not some "phantom" inventory.  Sitting in front of the dealership.  Goodyear Wranglers on it.

 

HRG

 

 

OK be careful. This sticker only describes the capabilities of the hitch assembly which by design always exceeds what the truck can do. Which is why hitches seldom fail. For example, I currently pull an 8,000 pound 5th wheel with an F-150, but my hitch is rated at 18,000 pounds. My truck certainly wont pull that. 

Only the door jamb stickers will tell you what the truck itself can do, haven taken into consideration engine, springs, axle, tires and all the rest. 

[chadstickpoindexter]

2 hours ago, Radio said:

 

OK be careful. This sticker only describes the capabilities of the hitch assembly which by design always exceeds what the truck can do. Which is why hitches seldom fail. For example, I currently pull an 8,000 pound 5th wheel with an F-150, but my hitch is rated at 18,000 pounds. My truck certainly wont pull that. 

Only the door jamb stickers will tell you what the truck itself can do, haven taken into consideration engine, springs, axle, tires and all the rest. 

Yeah, I know they have to put a higher rated hitch on the truck than what the truck is actually rated to tow, so I knew the numbers on that sticker didn’t really relate to what I am trying to find out. I was actually wondering if a specific truck comes with a specific assigned maximum towing rate (like what is listed on the Ford Towing Guides) similar to how they come with a specific assigned GVWR. 

The best I can come up with is that those numbers are a “guide”, and not assigned (like a GVWR). IMO though, that guide needs to be revisited because it doesn’t make sense the way they have it. 
 

Either way, I’m not worrying about it anymore. After seeing the door jamb stickers on the truck posted above and comparing it to what I have ordered, I’m good!