tommyturbo Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I couldn't help but read the post on dealer amrkup and wonder, why doesn't ford just sell the cars direct? why do we need damn car dealers anyhow? I get more info online about a car than i ever do from some cheesey sales man, and frankly why not eliminate the middle man? ford like so many companys could sell the cars directly online, lots of company sell that way. I'd be more likely to buy a car if i knew I wasn't going to have to spend 4 hours hagling and dealing with a bunch of sleazballs, just go online, heres the price, here is what the options cost, order it up my way, and get it in 6-8 weeks. Ford could still have service centers, if they wanted, but frankly I take my car to my personal echanic, or do it myself. I'm just saying, why not eliminate the middle man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I couldn't help but read the post on dealer amrkup and wonder, why doesn't ford just sell the cars direct? why do we need damn car dealers anyhow? I get more info online about a car than i ever do from some cheesey sales man, and frankly why not eliminate the middle man? ford like so many companys could sell the cars directly online, lots of company sell that way. I'd be more likely to buy a car if i knew I wasn't going to have to spend 4 hours hagling and dealing with a bunch of sleazballs, just go online, heres the price, here is what the options cost, order it up my way, and get it in 6-8 weeks. Ford could still have service centers, if they wanted, but frankly I take my car to my personal echanic, or do it myself. I'm just saying, why not eliminate the middle man? Because they're not allowed to sell cars directly to the public. If they tried to do that the dealers would sue their pants off. Dealers are protected by franchise laws. A few years ago Ford tried to put used cars on their website where the customer could pick one, then pick a local dealer where they could test drive it and buy the vehicle. Dealers sued Ford and they had to stop it. Sounds stupid, but that's the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyturbo Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 How did the dealership thing come into play in the first pace? Back when the model t was built? who says they are not allowed to sell to the public? How can we change this? I think consumers would be more apt to buy when the know I'm not going to have to deal with the damn sleazy dealer guys, and the price is allways fixed. Just a thought. If I had a choice between dealing with dealers that I know are going to rip me off or buy online with no hassel, I know which most would choose. This is one way us makers could catch a break over imports, by eliminating the sleazy dealers, ot that the imports couldn't do the same. It's just I personally think all dealers are sleazy rip of artists. I've never met one yet to change my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordofchampaign Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 If you told me that I could list all of my vehicles online and sell them all over the country to people, deliver them, and do business totally over the internet, I think this dealership would be all in! Unfortunately, people want a place to go and test drive cars, look at different models, colors, and the likes... I look forward to the day when we sell everything over the internet and all of our transactions are electronic. Anything to make this process easier. I hated the hassle of buying a car, and that's why I went to work in the car business...to make it an easy process. Now, I know a lot of dealerships are sleazy, or represent themselves in a not-so-nice way...but at my store we strive to be low pressure, easy going, no hassles, and provide a great experience. It doesn't always happen, but then again, no dealership can make everyone happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Back in the 1950s, dealers secured franchise laws after convincing legislators they needed protection against bullying manufacturers, who otherwise might impose costly dictates on dealers and demand sales and service concessions in return for advantageous inventory. Some states also banned automakers from directly competing in sales to ensure that distribution was "fair." With millions of dollars invested in facilities and inventory, the dealers' protectionist impulse is understandable. But such matters are more typically the province of contract law, not legislation. The practical effect of franchise laws has been to inhibit competition. Through territorial monopolies sanctioned by the state, dealers effectively limit the ability of consumers to comparison shop. And dealers need not worry overly much about customer satisfaction when there's nowhere else to go. (The dealers' refusal to open on weekends--the most convenient time to shop--has frustrated Detroiters for decades.) http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m156..._32/ai_63330933 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvford Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 My local Ford dealers know no more than a box of rocks! LMAO. I know more about Ford that they do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 (edited) My local Ford dealers know no more than a box of rocks! LMAO. I know more about Ford that they do! like the ones that tell you that you can still order a 302 in an F150 Edited October 19, 2006 by J-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTISFORDSUCKS Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 tommyturbo: Feel free to visit: http://www.otisfordsucks.com Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 "No haggle" does not work all that well with cars. If it did, why isn't Satrun the #1 brand in the country? People want to think they got a better deal than their neighbor. Other problems with an online sales model are: 1) Who takes your trade in? Many people don't want to bother selling their car privately. 2) How is service handled? 3) What auto mfg could afford all the "test drive" centers that would be required? I don't know anyone who would buy a car without driving it. 4) Where does all the inventory sit? There's more, but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 (edited) Other problems with an online sales model are: 1) Who takes your trade in? Many people don't want to bother selling their car privately. Great point. My theory is the dealer is necessary for used car sales, because not everyone would accept a deal that disallowed a trade-in. 2) How is service handled? Service centre and private mechanics. I know I could do without my local Ford dealer's "service". 3) What auto mfg could afford all the "test drive" centers that would be required? I don't know anyone who would buy a car without driving it. No idea. 4) Where does all the inventory sit? At the plant or a central location is my theory. A parking lot, basically. I believe you have great points here. The better thing -- maybe -- would be for if the auto company was to own the dealerships. Then again, that is a whole other issue waiting to happen. However, imagine if there were no more "Pratley Cadillac-Hyundais" On the other hand, a dealer would sell at a price that was amazingly expensive, so... no. On the other other hand, imagine if the local Chevy dealer bought out the local Ford dealer and there were no more Ford dealers in your area... what would you do? The dealer system is set, and that's all there is to it. Edited October 20, 2006 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 (edited) 2) How is service handled? Service centre and private mechanics. I know I could do without my local Ford dealer's "service". I don't see how this would work well for warranty service. Most authorized dealers seem very reluctant to do warranty work at a reduced labor rate. How would you convince a private mechanic to do so? 4) Where does all the inventory sit? At the plant or a central location is my theory. A parking lot, basically. That's going to be an awfully big parking lot! What about logistics? I believe you have great points here. The better thing -- maybe -- would be for if the auto company was to own the dealerships. Then again, that is a whole other issue waiting to happen. However, imagine if there were no more "Pratley Cadillac-Hyundais" On the other hand, a dealer would sell at a price that was amazingly expensive, so... no. This point is the key. Auto manufacturers are not experts in distribution. You would likely pay more for the car than now, considering that an auto mfg would be much more inefficient at retail sales than the current dealer network. If they did own the dealer network, they would have former independent dealer people staffing these locations. You would end up with the same sales tactics that people complain about now. Edited October 20, 2006 by Keyser Soze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partsisparts Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I couldn't help but read the post on dealer amrkup and wonder, why doesn't ford just sell the cars direct? why do we need damn car dealers anyhow? I get more info online about a car than i ever do from some cheesey sales man, and frankly why not eliminate the middle man? ford like so many companys could sell the cars directly online, lots of company sell that way. I'd be more likely to buy a car if i knew I wasn't going to have to spend 4 hours hagling and dealing with a bunch of sleazballs, just go online, heres the price, here is what the options cost, order it up my way, and get it in 6-8 weeks. Ford could still have service centers, if they wanted, but frankly I take my car to my personal echanic, or do it myself. I'm just saying, why not eliminate the middle man? Try trading your car into the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bri719 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 (edited) I couldn't help but read the post on dealer amrkup and wonder, why doesn't ford just sell the cars direct? why do we need damn car dealers anyhow? I get more info online about a car than i ever do from some cheesey sales man, and frankly why not eliminate the middle man? ford like so many companys could sell the cars directly online, lots of company sell that way. I'd be more likely to buy a car if i knew I wasn't going to have to spend 4 hours hagling and dealing with a bunch of sleazballs, just go online, heres the price, here is what the options cost, order it up my way, and get it in 6-8 weeks. Ford could still have service centers, if they wanted, but frankly I take my car to my personal echanic, or do it myself. I'm just saying, why not eliminate the middle man? exactly the reasons most dealers have internet sales departments. for people who already know what they want and what they're willing to pay. but aside from that Keyzer Soze said it well: how else to have a distribution model if you're a huge operation like Ford North America. who's going to hold the inventory. and where?? did you not realize there's a huge cost involved with warehousing hundreds of acres of cars? even on a regional level the infrastructure costs would be quite large. then the kicker: people want to go down to the dealer and drive the cars, feel them, smell them, look around, compare options and colors. plus where else are they going to trade in their old car or get either "factory" serviced. I'm sure the "direct" sales approach has been tried before, but it doesn't work for your average consumer and as others have alrady mentioned the dealer model has been around for 100 years so it's entrenched within most automobile companies and not going away anytime soon Edited October 20, 2006 by bri719 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Ford tried to "own" dealerships in the mid-nineties. Ford's "Auto Collections" was Ford Motor company's attempt to show the dealers how to sell cars. They paid Millions for dealerships in Oklahoma,California,Indiana,Utah and other areas of the country. They had everything the public said they wanted in a car dealership. Non- comissioned,factory trained product knowledge expert salespeople that specialized in no pressure,no hassle,no negotiation sales. They were going to have huge selectons,and salaried technicians to work on your car....just like the people asked for in their "focus groups"and consumer reports. But guess who sold the most vehicles? The mean old traditional dealers. Ford for the life of them could not understand why. Ford's Factory -owned dealeships had the "touchy-feely" non comissioned salespeople. They had the order yourself touch screen computers and the shiny showrooms,and internet waiting rooms with a restuarant,along with the kid's play area and service loaners for everybody. Ford Lost their ass. Ford sold their auto collections(at a loss)...back to the experts....the traditional auto dealers. Ford found out the hard way that The traditional dealer is the expert when it comes to RETAILLING CARS. All the fancy crap is nice,but traditional dealers found out a long time ago all that stuff don't sell cars. Look folks my point is vehicle retailling is harder than it looks. Yea I know some of you experts think you could do it better than the "mean old dealers" but you would be just like Ford,broke in no time flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g48150 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 You guys know that Bill Ford sits on Ebay's board right? What do you think Ebay Motors is? Granted, its mainly filled with used cars, but he's been there too long not to notice trends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 2) How is service handled? Service centre and private mechanics. I know I could do without my local Ford dealer's "service". -- I don't see how this would work well for warranty service. Most authorized dealers seem very reluctant to do warranty work at a reduced labor rate. How would you convince a private mechanic to do so? -- Wow, that is an incredible point regarding logistics. It's troublesome: you can't sell a car without a warranty in today's marketplace. So... hmmm. 4) Where does all the inventory sit? At the plant or a central location is my theory. A parking lot, basically. -- That's going to be an awfully big parking lot! What about logistics? -- Well, if it doesn't sell, don't build it. The benefit and problem -- at the same time -- will be that cars will be built in a few varieties and until they sell, they sit there. And the company doesn't build any more of that type for the while. Shut down the factory for a while and keep the workers at home, no pay for not working. If an average car sits on the lot for 60 days(?), then that means there are a lot of domestic cars that were built and sit around. Build more to order and you don't get as much old stock. Would it fly? Unions would say "F no! You're taking hours away from our hourly workers!" but I think there is too much overflow in cars sitting around. Mind you, I need more info about how many cars a plant builds in a day and how many sell each week. ----- I believe you have great points here. The better thing -- maybe -- would be for if the auto company was to own the dealerships. Then again, that is a whole other issue waiting to happen. However, imagine if there were no more "Pratley Cadillac-Hyundais" On the other hand, a dealer would sell at a price that was amazingly expensive, so... no. This point is the key. Auto manufacturers are not experts in distribution. You would likely pay more for the car than now, considering that an auto mfg would be much more inefficient at retail sales than the current dealer network. If they did own the dealer network, they would have former independent dealer people staffing these locations. You would end up with the same sales tactics that people complain about now. --- With regards to sales, I think it depends on whether the salesman is on commission. However, I can't see anyone in sales who would be so committed to "go their all for the brand" if they were not on commission. But with regard to distribution, I think they would have some major issues. However, if they had a few versions of each model sitting around at the retail centre specifically for a test drive, and to wear them out as "sacrifice vehicles" (you can't buy it unless you really want to), then that would solve, partially, the "feel it, touch it, drive it" problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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