I'm sure this subject has been beaten into the ground,

[Cashman]

... but why the hell can't we get some of the aussie Fords over here? All this talk about Bold Moves and we don't even GET the bold Fords. They don't get all the good stuff... we've got the Rustang, but they get the 5.4 us mustang owners have been begging for. Take a look at the GTO... even though it never caught on in the US because of bland looks (which the FPV vehicles DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH) they've still got a huge performance crowd and I don't think I've ever seen a negative article about them.

 

If we had some FPV's for flagships and base models underneath, I think both would sell well... just like the GT and v6 mustangs. Oh yeah, and the tuner crowd would flip for a factory turbo ute with 370 hp/400+ ft lbs. I'm sure they'd love a turbo focus instead of the POS version we get, or a turbo Territory.

 

I'm sure this has all been covered so I'll just whore some pictures and leave.

 

enjoy the pictures, god knows we won't get any vehicles that 'bold'

[mkaresh]

Wheel on the wrong side and incomplete development/insufficient refinement. Australia's a small market. They can't afford to put as many hours into developing cars for it, and don't. So the quality and refinement levels tend to be below what the American market demands. Also not cold weather tested like vehicles designed for North America are. GM had to put quite a few hours into tweaking and redoing the Monaro before selling it as the GTO. Still ended up with some very oddly placed controls.

[atomcat68]

If Ford builds the Interceptor, Australia can keep that.

[g48150]

Well for one thing, they all need the bold grill that the Fusion and Edge both have.

 

Aussie cars are nice, FOR ME TO POOP ON!

 

Come on, a Falcon! Pffffttt.

 

I'd MUCH rather cruise in a Mondeo than any of these.

[LSFan00]

Wheel on the wrong side and incomplete development/insufficient refinement. Australia's a small market. They can't afford to put as many hours into developing cars for it, and don't. So the quality and refinement levels tend to be below what the American market demands. Also not cold weather tested like vehicles designed for North America are. GM had to put quite a few hours into tweaking and redoing the Monaro before selling it as the GTO. Still ended up with some very oddly placed controls.

 

That is an incredibly inaccurate assertion; that the Ford Aus cars are not as refined/high-quality as US cars. Needless to say, in the progression from concept to dealer-lot vehicles, Ford NA has a track record of eliminating any refinement the designer had in mind, in over-bean-counting every component, and supplier-produced sub-component. That's why the suppliers are all on the brink of bankruptcy, and why quality sub-components are not found/consistently improved upon in Ford NA vehicles. If Ford did nothing but ship 2,000 Falcon's and 2,000 Mondeo's into dealer lots in LA, and got through with the OK to sel this as a pilot program, you would be shocked at the press it would receive.

[SVT_MAN]

I love the Falcon, but the Monaro / GTO failed here - why would the Falcon succeed? We have different markets. Even if they offered a lower-range model, I just don't know that the American public would line up in droves.

[Blueblood]

I love the Falcon, but the Monaro / GTO failed here - why would the Falcon succeed? We have different markets. Even if they offered a lower-range model, I just don't know that the American public would line up in droves.

 

 

Easy, think about it, the GTO was available as a two door ONLY, and had one engine, big powerful V8. So it went up against the Mustang, and since the Mustang was so much better looking, hardly anyone bought a GTO which also happened to be hideous and looked like a blown up Cavalier.

 

The Falcon is 4 doors, and can be had with a 6, and mid level V8, and a high powered V8. Ansd most impotrantly, it's not a Pontiac, it's a Ford, so I think just like the Mustang, it would do quite well.

[Cashman]

Wheel on the wrong side and incomplete development/insufficient refinement. Australia's a small market. They can't afford to put as many hours into developing cars for it, and don't. So the quality and refinement levels tend to be below what the American market demands. Also not cold weather tested like vehicles designed for North America are. GM had to put quite a few hours into tweaking and redoing the Monaro before selling it as the GTO. Still ended up with some very oddly placed controls.

 

 

Ford refinement? American demands??? Have you driven cars from other markets? We get crap... hell china gets better versions of american cars than we do! My rustang with just over 10k has creaks, clunks and clanks from all over... and it has since brand new. No wonder ford's going down the shitter if people think they offer more quality products than other manufacturers.

 

As far as the gto/monaro... they did some tweaks, and had to convert it to left hand drive, it has the ls2 with 100 more hp than the 3v's, IRS, a 6 speed and a MUCH nicer interior, yet it still fell into the mustang's price range? I've been in a GTO up to nearly 160 mph, and it's steady as a rock. I'm scared to go over 120 in my mustang because the hood starts shuddering like it's gonna fly off!

 

And if Ford is that short on money, why don't they just stop producing cool looking concepts that will NEVER be produced?

[Cashman]

I love the Falcon, but the Monaro / GTO failed here - why would the Falcon succeed? We have different markets. Even if they offered a lower-range model, I just don't know that the American public would line up in droves.

 

I'm convinced the GTO only failed because of it's appearance... everyone I know who has driven one fell in love with them, myself included. GM took a great car, made it look like a Grand Am/Prix/every other pontiac and expected it to sell. Can't we learn from their mistakes???

 

I really don't think the markets are that different, and it's not like ford is meeting the US market as it is. The way it looks they're just going to keep shitting out crap like the Edge, 500 and Fusion until they're out of business. Breaks my heart.

[Cashman]

Well for one thing, they all need the bold grill that the Fusion and Edge both have.

 

please god tell me this is some kind of sick joke, my sarcasm detector is broken.

[IMBoring25]

I'm convinced the Goat failed (Don't know if GM would call it that) because of its price tag. You can have a V8 Mustang, with gotta-have-it styling, or you can have a GTO, with unobjectionable styling, for...6000 more dollars? And then have to put Premium gas in it? Lemme think...

[Keyser Soze]

Why does ford need cars from Australia? Do they not have the design talent in the US to produce desirable cars? I'm sure they do. Some of the concept cars prove that US Ford designers can make some very compelling vehicles.

 

What management does not seem to get is this: If your vehicles are in high demand, you will not have to discount them. Making near full margin on most of your vehicles means that you do not have to obsessively cost-cut. It means that you don't have to cut warranty repair payments to dealers which makes them reluctant to perform said repairs. It means that you can afford to properly advertise and promote your product. Make the "Bold Moves" you have promised and things can truly change.

[Cashman]

I'm convinced the Goat failed (Don't know if GM would call it that) because of its price tag. You can have a V8 Mustang, with gotta-have-it styling, or you can have a GTO, with unobjectionable styling, for...6000 more dollars? And then have to put Premium gas in it? Lemme think...

 

 

Stock GTO's have run in the 12's, and along with the mustang are the best performance bargins for the money. Plus the interior is on another level and a six speed option the mustang SHOULD HAVE. It's not like their price is so far off from the mustangs either, they cost as much as a base GT vert. I wouldn't mind putting in premium with better MPG and 100 more hp either....

[Cashman]

Why does ford need cars from Australia? Do they not have the design talent in the US to produce desirable cars? I'm sure they do. Some of the concept cars prove that US Ford designers can make some very compelling vehicles.

 

What management does not seem to get is this: If your vehicles are in high demand, you will not have to discount them. Making near full margin on most of your vehicles means that you do not have to obsessively cost-cut. It means that you don't have to cut warranty repair payments to dealers which makes them reluctant to perform said repairs. It means that you can afford to properly advertise and promote your product. Make the "Bold Moves" you have promised and things can truly change.

 

 

You hit it on the head, they can design great CONCEPTS, but they sell crap here. Ford needs to do more Global platforms, and give the public the chance to see what else is out there. I see no good reason why they can't ship over some vehicles like Focus RS or Territory Turbo

 

are global platforms seen as a bad thing for ford?

[jpd80]

Some interesting points from the Ford 2000 program instigated back in the early 1990s.

Ford learned quickly that rather than reducing the number of large RWD platforms to Global designs, it was more efficient to help the the individual projects than to try and merge platforms. A British Jaguar is different to a Lincoln and a Falcon so why try to totally common engineer these?

Forming unibody sheet and frame steelwork is processed on stamping presses, jigged and welded together. The bodywork is formed in conjunction with the frame so there is some lattitude with frame length, width and height. The external skin panels are what most people incorrectly think of as the platform, A Mustang platform has gotta look like a Mustang? Wrong, case in point is GM Zeta's platform sporning the VE Commodore and next Camaro, same architecture, different vehicles.

Front and Rear Suspensions modules can be selected to suit the vehicles' end purpose. If all that's needed for a Mustang is a strut front end and a solid rear axle, that's all it gets. Other vehicles need to have double wishbone front ends and Control blade IRS to match a competitor, then that's what they get.

Engine bays are dependant on the engine modules used in the region. Case in point: Falcon's architecture, it's based around an I6 that nowhere else uses.

 

Ford AUS gift to head office will not be be the Falcon as such. More, the rediscovery of extending the usefulness of existing platforms by the use of derivatives. Be they 2-Door, 4-Door, SUV, Pick-up, regional common platforms are on the way.

[Cashman]

for those saying a conversion would be too expensive:

 

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...?showtopic=9643

[LSFan00]

And no, head units, xmission/engines, crash tests, cost to ship (from AUSTRALIA), and limited capacity do not limit GM. Global multi-billion dollar companies can pull this kind of thing off when they want to. I just hope somebody at Mercury, with a boss open to listening to good ideas, is putting together a powerpoint presentation right now after reading that.

 

PS: this might also help with UAW contract negotiations; if you can just pull from any global factory, that's a different negotiation than "well, if we are price-noncompetitive, Toyota will kill our market share."

Edited January 9, 2007 by LSFan00

[Blueblood]

Forget Mercury, it needs to be a Ford to be succesful..

[Linc]

Forget Mercury, it needs to be a Ford to be successful..

 

FORD needs to make Mercury into what Scion is for TOYOTA. Give the company a *first time buyer* kind of approach for the youths.

[LincolnFan]

for those saying a conversion would be too expensive:

 

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...?showtopic=9643

 

That's because they have been selling LHD cars for years, I have one of these POSes and they fucking stink you'd never touch them with a pole.

 

You guys give these cars too much credit, these cars suck. I have driven a Vic and I swear they handle better than my fucking ugly Holden.

 

Fuck the LS1, it's worthless and fucking gutless. The 5.4 in our Expy kicks its ass in a 5500+ pounds SUV.

[silvrsvt]

Stock GTO's have run in the 12's, and along with the mustang are the best performance bargins for the money. Plus the interior is on another level and a six speed option the mustang SHOULD HAVE. It's not like their price is so far off from the mustangs either, they cost as much as a base GT vert. I wouldn't mind putting in premium with better MPG and 100 more hp either....

 

But the Consumers voted with their pocketbooks and the GTO lost out even though it might be a "better" deal. You can have the best specs in the world, but it doesnt mean a hill of beans if you can't sell it. Not to mention the GTO looked too much like a puffed up Caliaver. I'm sure it would have sold better if it looked like a GTO also from the late 60's

 

Makes me wonder how successful the Challenger is going to be, since its going to be in the same market, though admittedly it has better styling, but I'll be suprised if they sell more then 30K of them a year.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

My only reasonable suggestion for importing a Aus Ford is for Mercury to get a Falcon, probably the V8 version, and sell it as a new Marauder. It would need a new set of badges and a new interior to go with the rest of the Mercury lineup, and the exterior styling would definitely not be "in the family".

 

That's the problem. They've niched Mercury to Urban Chic. Their cars are distinctly Euro in look and have that "satinny" look to them that you want premium vehicles to have. A Aus Ford Falcon won't have that look without extensive exterior working. It won't look ford either. It won't have the three-bar and it won't look living legends either. Where would it fit in?

 

Judging by the exterior sheetmetal on the existing Falcon, the easiest transformation (smallest amount of body work changes needed) would be to make it a Mazda. I know that many of you are having heart attacks and dropping dead as I say that, but, I think that it would clash the least there. I'll don my flame suit and walk away now, but, if you want brands to have identity, and you don't want to invest in vast sheetmetal changes, what are you going to do?

 

Otherwise, we need to walk away from the idea of bringing over a current Falcon. The reworking for looks will be expensive, and will add too much risk to the project. Also, that's an awfuly long way to ship a car in the volume that it will be shipped in. So, reworking it for the US market will be expensive, as will shipping it. It won't sell in enough numbers to be built here, and since its so different, won't be able to be flexed into an existing plant.

 

I say forget about the idea. Go ahead and make a mustang platform derived sedan. Slap in an IRS from somewhere else in the corporate family and add that same IRS to the production mustang to increase its volume and reduce its costs. Flex the mustang line and build the sedan on the same line. If it sells well enough to keep the plant going on three shifts for 7 days a week, than so be it. Do not give into the temptation to build it at another plant unless you're moving the whole line there and that plant has more overall capacity.