7Mary3

After the failure of the LCF I don't see Ford wanting back in that market anytime soon. Than again, the 4.5L Powerstroke was a big part of that failure......

My question is how in the world will Ford be able to compete with a debt free GM owned by the Federal Government and the UAW. http://seekingalpha.com/article/137226-for...ob?source=yahoo

No surprise. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ford doesn't do the same thing one day.....

The value of GM's stock is a moot point, as more than likely GM will declare Chapter 11 next month. Here's another take on the ramifications of that potential situation: http://seekingalpha.com/article/137226-for...ob?source=yahoo Frankly, that spells out my biggest fear. Can't blame GM's officers for dumping, that stock is essentially worthless until the dust settles.

I wonder how the Boss will compare to the 6.4L Hemi that's coming out in the 2011 Ram.

Wow, that came out of left field. I suspected something like this was coming, but not this soon. I am starting to wonder about Ford's liquidity.

That's a very good point. I see a number of upfitters aligning themselves with a particular dealer and truck manufacturer, and selling finished vocational trucks 'turn key'. A lot of fleets are going for this, it basically saves them the step of having to find a chassis and then working with an upfitter. This trend is particularly popular with some of the municipal and public utility fleets, where the upfitter is designing specialized equipment to fit a particular chassis.

I think the cost and complexity of 2010 and newer diesel emission controls are going to keep diesels out of light trucks for the most part. Urea SCR may allow for less EGR, but you still are required to have a DPF. I don't see diesels as being cost effective in trucks under 8,500# GVW.

A sensible post.

They can't put variable valve timing on the V-10. The right side cam turns a balance shaft, if the phasing changed between the balance shaft and the crank the engine would at best vibrate, at worst eat its main bearings. No variable valve timing, expensive to produce (30 valves, 30 cam followers, 10 piston/rod assemblies, balance shaft, ect.), wide, and long. I am afraid it is on the way out.

Light and Medium Truck has a Ford ad in it that actually has a picture of an F-650! Mind you it is hidden behind an E series van, and there is no mention of medium duty trucks in the text, but oh well.......

Very interesting! FWIW, I'll give you my take. Hebe is right, there are too many players in the U.S. medium duty market (and I have news for him, there's too many in heavy duty as well!). As we all know, International was after GM's medium duty business. And I think the only real reason was International didn't want Isuzu, GM's long time partner, to get it. World wide, Isuzu is in the top 3 commercial truck manufacturers. They want to expand their presence in the U.S., and GM's dealer network and medium duty conventional line would give them a strong foundation to build on. Isuzu is very much vertically integrated, and GM's mediums now use Isuzu diesels exclusively. The stumbling block in a GM/International deal was GM's Flint plant, which the UAW would have required build another vehicle in the event the mediums were moved to International's Springfield facility. That 'other vehicle' was going to be a second smaller medium duty line to be shared by both GM and International, but it was cancelled due to the economy. Isuzu has stated that if they took over GM's medium duty business, they would keep production at GM's Flint plant. This should come as no surprise, as the Flint plant currently builds many trucks for Isuzu's U.S. dealers. One of the 'niche players' Hebe is referring to may be Mitsubishi Fuso. Their market share is very small, they have dropped their class 6 and 7 models, and they were supposed to be integrated into Sterling in the U.S., as they are part of Daimler. Nissan UD is owned by Volvo AB. I was expecting Volvo to make a run on the medium duty market, but at this point who knows? As for Hino, they are growing, and Toyota has enough money to wait out the shake-up. I don't think the Fiat/Chrysler deal will have any effect on the medium duty market. My guess is Fiat will want to continue the Dodge Ram, including the 4500 and 5500 models, but the Dodge dealer network can't handle anything larger. Paccar will probably stay in, their mediums complement their heavy duty line, and that's not going anywhere. Which leaves us with Blue Diamond. The LCF has been dropped, Ford doesn't seem interested in marketing the trucks, and International has 75% controlling interest. It doesn't look good for Ford at the moment, but it is really hard to say exactly how this will play out. Stay tuned!

I am not too sure that statement is 100% accurate. New car sales are so low, I think Ford's sales are still well below their break-even point. It is commendable that Ford has been able to spend money on their reorganization and new products, but even without those expenditures Ford may still be in the red.

Bob is exactly right about Ford's missdirected advertising with regards to commercial trucks. It is quite clear to me that whoever is in charge of advertising commercial trucks doesn't have a clue. The consensus among my industry peers is that Ford is not serious about the 450 and larger Super Duty commercial trucks anymore, and Ford's advertising strategy reinforces this view. Advertising an Escape Hybrid in a trucking industry trade rag is just plain ludicrous. I really feel for the remaining Ford commercial truck dealers. They have little or no advertising support, no dedicated manufacturer representatives for commercial trucks, and many of them have been left in the lurch by Sterling's demise. All during a severe recession.

Like I said, one possibility is that Ford is only using the current 650 and 750 to hold them over until they have a chance to come up with their own medium duty. I would still think, however, that Ford would want to advertise these trucks more actively in order to keep Ford in the minds of medium truck buyers. As I posted here early last year, I was told Ford did have a project for a new 650 and 750 built in conjunction with another partner (never figured out who, but it was rumored to be Magna) but it would seem it was abruptly cancelled. It could have been nothing more than a ploy to pressure Navistar, who knows. All we can do is wait and watch.......

True, but when (and if) the Volt hits the market, GM will not have to worry about CAFE for a long time.

GM does not offer the 6.2L in any of the HD's. The HD's get a 360 h.p./380 ft. lbs. 6.0L. However, the LS series engines can go to 7.0L if need be. Before GM got into trouble, a larger truck only LS was rumored to be in the works. Don't know what the statusof that engine is at the moment.i

I don't think the 650 and 750 are going to be around much longer. When Sterling was around, it seemed that Daimler was trying to force Ford out of commercial trucks by offering competitive Sterling models for all the Super Duty's and the LCF, sold right at the same dealers in most cases. Now that Sterling is gone, it looks like most of those dealers are going to have limited product. Probably doesn't matter anyway, with the economy taking it's toll on commercial truck sales. Also consider that Navistar is in control of Blue Diamond, and the LCF is gone. I am holding out hope that Ford is using the current 650 and 750 to 'hold their place' in the medium duty market, but the question really is how serious is Ford about medium trucks. It is ironic, but it seems as though GM is more committed to medium and heavy truck sales than Ford.

I really don't know. Could happen, but when is anyone's guess at the moment. No one really has any idea what GM will look like in 2 years. I think the prospect of a nearly debt free GM consisting of Chevy, Cadillac, and maybe Buick and some commercial trucks has Bill Ford Jr. and Alan Mulally a bit concerned, but whether or not that actually comes to pass is a big question.

Neat! Wonder where the radius arms went..........

I don't know about that. I live near Los Angeles, and I see very few Flex's. Seems like most of them I see are rentals, and if you were driving around Anahiem, a large percentage of the vehicles you saw were rentals! Have to go where the touristas are not.

I don't know what the big deal is. Some were expecting an all-new Super Duty for 2011, but that was never the case. A couple of new engines, a small restyle, rumors of some chassis revisions is about it.

E Series is a better solution. Besides, there are pleanty of used Excursions available at give-away prices.

Untrue, Chevy has a crossover SUT along the line of the Honda Ridgeline coming. In any event, neither GM nor Ford has any new light truck platforms in the works (unless you want to count the importation of the Ford Transit Connect). A wise business decision, as sales of light trucks outside the fleet/commercial sector are going to remain very low. Both Ford and GM need to be profitable in small cars.

Unfortuately, Ford's collapse in the wake of U.S. supplier implosion (ostensibly caused by a GM shutdown) is all too likely.