akirby

I think I speak for everybody here (and I do mean everybody) when I say: Please just STFU.

It's definitely much much smaller than it used to be but I think it's holding pretty steady for now.

Overall it's useful but the point that Pioneer was making is that the people that seem to yell the loudest about Ford cancelling a vehicle are people who don't actually buy new ones therefore they can't use the fact that they buy used ones as a justification for Ford to continue building them.

How many vehicle launches has Ford/Lincoln done over the last 30 years and how many have had major problems like this? I can only remember 2 - this one and mustang a few years ago. This is most likely a one-time problem that won't happen again. This isn't a case of Ford/Lincoln not caring - it's a case of too many problems occurring at once and processes and tools that were not able to deal with it. You learn from it and fix the problems. If they have the same problem with the MKC launch then I will be more inclined to agree with the cynics. Until then it's an isolated event.

You can sell or trade any vehicle at any time. Period.

Keep in mind the "rebranded luxury experience" has just begun and won't be complete for several years. MKZ is the first vehicle to launch under the new Lincoln so this process is new (specifically the inspection process and sending them to another plant). It was compounded by a never before seen number of issues with stamping dies and supplier parts (hood latches, headlamps, engine parts, etc.) for both the Fusion and MKZ. Don't forget the MkZ and Fusion are on a new platform with different suppliers than the old versions. It was truly a perfect storm of problems at every step that obviously caught Ford unprepared. I don't believe we'll see anything like this for future Lincoln vehicles. And stage 1 of Lincoln's plan won't be complete for at least 2 more years - maybe longer. It's not a sprint. So while it's disappointing for customers and they may lose some sales and customers they can certainly fix the problems going forward.

Ford is investing more now than they ever have. Worldwide they have A, B, C, C/D and D cars. Mustang. Ranger, F series, Transit, Transit Connect. Ecosport, Escape/Kuga, Explorer, Flex. C-max. Hybrids, plug-in hybrids, diesels. S-max/Grand C-max. Plus all the Aussie stuff. Just because they don't sell everything in the U.S. doesn't mean they don't have them available if needed.

We're not anxious - we're just trying to explain Ford's rationale for making those kinds of decisions. And we don't want Ford to be in a position where they could go bankrupt like they almost did in 2008.

I think they should also do an Aviator but I suspect that may be waiting for the new CD4 CUV platform. A Navigator shares a platform with a vehicle that already sells 500K+ per year. It can be built in the same plants and share a lot of parts with F150 and Expedition. Ranger is on a bespoke platform with no sharing. A fully equipped Navigator can sell for $60K+. A Ranger would top out around $30K. They can make 3 times as much profit on a Navigator compared to a Ranger. That said - I wouldn't fault them if they decided to cancel it altogether either.

Side profile is the only one I like. The rear reminds me of the MKS which is to say - unremarkable. The front just screams at you - and not in a good way.

There is no reason NOT to share as much as possible between the Expy and F150 including front ends, doors and interior plus drivetrains. I expect the Navigator to have a Lincoln interior with Lincoln features (except the retractable roof), Lincoln suspension, 100% unique sheetmetal and at least one Lincoln specific drivetrain.

That is not at all what normally happens. Normally they build dealer stock cars and hold them for inspection until they can produce perfect vehicles for 5 straight days. One error and the clock starts over. When they get to 5 days they give the OK to buy and that's when retail (sold) orders get built. The first cars have to be fixed before they can be shipped and that may take a few weeks so you don't want customer orders to be delayed that long. So even under normal circumstances you can get dealer orders that show up before retail orders. In this case after the OK to buy they found additional problems which caused them to ship cars to Flat Rock where they apparently lost track of some of them and couldn't get parts for others so individual vehicles were delayed much much longer than normal. If you had special ordered any other vehicle at any other time you wouldn't have these issues. Ford knows they screwed up and hopefully they'll compensate you guys for having to wait so long.

I don't assume anything when it comes to offers like that - I always read the exclusions because I know from past experience there are always exclusions. Nobody's blaming you for that assumption and the dealer should have caught it up front through Vincent. It is strange that it was included under an ad for hybrids but those are likely two separate things where the coupon is not directly associated with what's listed above it - it just shows any current offers regardless of the vehicle being shown.

It's pretty obvious that Ford's internal tracking system isn't designed to handle shipping cars to another plant. I'm sure that's a big lesson learned here. They seemed to have lost track of a lot of vehicles.

Why is it Ford's fault that you didn't read the rebate? I understand not holding it against the dealer but you shouldn't hold it against Ford either. That one's on you.

Interior is pretty good although there is something about GM steering wheels that I just don't like. The exterior is atrocious IMO. I much prefer the current CTS exterior to this one.

Absolutely unequivocally wrong. Kyle was several car lengths back before they got side by side. They touched, slowed down, then wrecked as Kyle drove by. You're only looking at the last hit that caused the wreck but it started way before that when they got together.

Huh? They outran Busch from the restart until halfway through the last lap. He was several car lengths back until they touched and slowed down. Even the fastest car isn't more than a couple of tenths per lap quicker than the rest of the top 5. If they don't touch he never comes close to them. They slowed down when they touched - then he shot by. It wouldn't be so bad to be wrong if you weren't so vocal about it.

They actually said they were not going after large luxury sedans.

So the Ranger Mafia has officially caught up with the Panther Mafia where the people complaining about what Ford doesn't build any more never bought new ones?

I've never seen ANYBODY who knew incentives before they were released to the public. They're guarded more closely than the KFC spice recipe.

Calibration.

All cars have empty reserves for 2 reasons - to make sure you don't run out of gas as soon as you hit E and to keep extra fuel for the fuel pump. For Ford it's about 10% but I'm sure it varies by mfr.

That wasn't directed at you Kris. You seem to understand the business implications. Others, like cheri/ck, just don't get it and never will. But the market hasn't changed and I don't see why it would anytime soon.