Ralph Greene

I was responding to original post about buying an older F150 in today's inflated used vehicle market. Same situation as buying a used Honda Odyssey or similar hi demand vehicle. I understand the numbers on other higher depreciating used vehicles. Buying used cn make a lot of sense. However....X plan minus rebates with Ford factory warranty on new F150 W/B compelling to me if I wanted one though. Actually....since I'm usually a cash buyer, and also live off my investments.....I would probably lease it for 2-3 years, figure on making more on my money than extra lease cost....then buying it out of lease at end of lease term. When stock market is low, that's what I do. When market is high....I take profits and pay cash for vehicle. I recently got my wife a new 2012 Limited Edge. We own a lot of shares of Ford. But instead of selling about 2800 shares (at current F price) to buy her Edge, I decided to lease the car for 27 months. When I add up all the extra costs of leasing....down payment, monthly lease cost, and buy price at the end....I compute the total lease cost about an extra $1500 over X plan buy price. If my Ford stock I didn't sell....goes up more than roughly .55 per share over the 27 month leas period, I come out ahead. if it doesn't, I lose the bet. We'll see. I'm comfortable with the bet. I don't see why F isn't a $18-20 stock. So if I were buying a used vehicle, especially a hi demand hi priced one, there are lots of issues I would consider. And none of you mentioned cost of replacing a transmission....not covered by warranty. Or an engine that was abused, etc.

I never understood how buying a half worn out vehicle for half of new price is saving money. With new you get a warranty, lower finance rates (if you need a loan), and with new you can finance for longer period, since you are buying twice the vehicle as a used up vehicle. New may be cheaper, since you're buying 100% of the vehicle life.

I have a number of retired friends who travel around US a lot....and the minivans are replacing the pick up with topper....as their vhicle of choice for those 6000 mile across counry trips and back. Much better fuel economy, flip down movie screens, and somwhat easier more car like ride and driving. It's not about people hauling so much, as it is about "stuff" hauling. You can get 3 rows of seating with Explorer or Pilot. But a Minivan hauls a lot more. However....those that pull a small trailer, who might normally use a V8 F150 or equivalent, are sure excited about the EB F150 for towing stuff below what you need the PS for. And BTW.....You can haul a lot more bikes and other expensive stuff in Odysseyor and Chrysler Vans than a Flex. Serious travelers aren't stupid....they know this. Flex may measure close to same on outside....but it doesn't compare well to Odyssey for hauling "stuff". Flex is OK for hauling people I guess. And, as noted above, very nice. I'm seriously thinking about buying a minivan to haul a couple people, couple bikes, hiking gear, lugage, etc....for trips to Colorado and back. I really wanted to consider the Flex, but it isn't designed for what I want. otherwise....it's nice. And BTW....I like the looks of the Dodge. in ST version. My Element, with rear seats out, works well for just hauling me and stuff accross country, but it's not so comfortable for wife....so pick her up at airports usually. Now....she wants to ride along. So need mini van. Styling not important to me.

I just hope Ford builds a real nice solid dependable good looking car. With the luxury you would expect in a Lincoln. Some of the space age stuff wears off fast. We recently passed over a MKX and (instead) purchased a Limited Edge with most of options. Compared to Limited Edge, just didn't see the value for another $8,000 or so for MKX. However.....now that we understand how MFT, Sync, NAV, Sirius and HD, Blue tooth, voice recognition, etc all works....the new has worn off. Now we wonder who would want to own this thing when it's a few years old. Who can repair it? How reliable will it be? Who will want to pay annual subscriptions to Sirius and Sync? Those are things I think about with regard to some of these new "creations". And I'm probably in their target audience. Some of those old plain boring proven tech vehicles wear well when they are a few years old.

Shows some of the R&D that went into the NASCAR FR9 engine. With it's improved internal cooling from water and oil, it runs cooler than some others with grills blocked off like they do in qualifying. They can run more tape on nose for more down force. I noticed all the Chevy's were blowing steam out the over flow by the second lap of qualifying. Fords didn't do that. That may mean the Chevy's can't push car in front as many laps in race. Can hear the Chevy teams crying and moaning now. Don't know how they will do in the actual race when grills are opened up more and they are not running noise to tail. We probably got a glimpse of that last night in shoot out.

Hardly! Carter was a "whimp". I would like to see some candidates....right or left......that that didn't pander to the religious right for their votes. Or some who understand we can't afford to have it all in this country....we can't support everyone. And if we aren't going to allow folks to die in the streets from disease and hunger, we gotta figure out how to care for them. Me....I'd probably take some of the safey net away. I just don't see either party addressing our problems. Everyone knows tax revenue has to go up some. Revenue as a percent of GDP is lowest in about 50-60 years....depending on whose numbers you believe. Everyone knows some spending has to be cut. And I know....if we would work toward balancing our budget and restoring our AAA+ bond rating, before too long investors from all over the world would flock again to USA to build plants and hire people. I also gotta give some credit to Obama. The original intent of the Affordable care act was to get about 40 million people insured and out of our emergency rooms. A noble idea. Unfortunately what made it out of Congress I don't even like. As the original poster's article pointed out.....times are now a lot different than the times under Reagan. If he was alive now and healthy....no doubt he would be a different person also. But I don't remember hearing from him about solutions to any problems. Just cut, cut, and cut.

It's popular now for Republican candidates and others to talk about the "good ol" Reagan years. But mainly what I remember is he began the spiral toward huge deficits. His tax cutting was popular, but he went too far. Bush and now Obama have taken us off the cliff. To me, Reagan was way overated. He was a great speaker though. Made you think he was doing something. I kinda think Republicans (no matter their rethoric) just borrow and spend. It's their idea of how to stimulate the economy. They always say you can't increase revenue without killing economy, and they never will cut their fat profits from Government business. The democrats want to tax and spend....it's their idea of how to do it. So how do they differ much? If we had a real candidate....who ran on idea of balancing the budget....with real spending cuts, real tax reform resulting in some increased revenues, and the idea of doing what it takes to restore our AAA+ bond rating......most of our economic problems would solve themselves. And BTW.....The lost jobs aren't coming back....at least in the industries where they were lost.

How does the F150 3.7 L perform in one of the lighter cab versions.....for light duty use and general transportation? Also maybe in a lower trim level also. Say a Supercab XLT (or lower trim level) with 3.7 and 6 speed auto. Rear gears for economy. I tend to over spend on vehicles, worry about keeping them like new and garage kept etc. Recently thinking about getting a 3.7 Supercab lower level of F 150, put a cap on it, and just use it for long distance traveling, hauling the grandkids, etc, and maybe not get too attached to it. It wouldn't fit in my garage anyway. I've heard they can get low 20's, up to about 25 MPG on trips around 60-65 MPH, if you drive careful. When I'm traveling across the country, I usually set cruise around 65 or so....and put in 600 or so miles each day.

And.....BTW Birth Control pills have been considered a part of women's health for over 50 years. I live in a household of women, and I know they have other uses than the prevention of pregnacy. For many women, they are just medicine. Just like the other medicines covered by a health policy.

What the administration is wanting is already the law in 28 states. They are just saying that if you are an employer, purchasing health insurance from a 3rd party for your employees, excluding Churches....they are exempted, you must offer birth control medicine as part of the policy. The administration is saying female employees of church BUSINESSES should have the same access to birth control medicine as employees of any other business. What's the big deal? No one is being forced to take birth control pills. The Republicans are looking kinda silly over this.

In addition to our new Edge.....I also have a 2010 Honda Element....bought mainly to haul my bikes and grandkids. Compared to some other "sorta" similar vehicles, it gets poor highway fuel economy. And I 've spent some time figuring out why....especially since it has basically the same 2.4 L engine Honda uses in other vehicles that have excellent highway numbers well into the 30's. First.....It's brick. And while it will get about 30 MPG cruising easily at 55 or so, with AC off..... at 70 with AC on, it gets about 25-26. In addition to the lack of aero efficiency, runing the AC compressor makes a big difference.....at least 1 MPG, which is more than I thought. It's geared to turn about 2300 @ 70. Maybe Accord turns less...it needs less gear since it's more aero efficient. I know each 5% in cruising RPM (roughly 100) is worth about 1 MPG usually. These engines are tuned so closely, that any drag.....aero or mechaincal, makes a big difference in real world driving MPG. Things like aftermarket mud flaps, tall antennenas, wide front tires, low or marginal tire pressure, agressive tire treads, soft compound tire rubber, large side mirrors, raising vehicle up off ground a fraction of inch with taller front tires, pre-electric power steering, all can add up to more than you realize. Then there is weight of passenger, and whatever else you are carrying. Thow in winter gas, also. So many variables.

New cars already have a protective coating over the paint.....it's called the clear coat. So whatever you apply is just protecting the clear coat. I prepare cars for car shows, and usually work with a clean surface....sometimes use a clay bar to get clean. Sometimes apply product with an electric buffer. I also sometimes use stuff I buy at Dollar Tree.... for $1....left over before the newest greatest product comes out. I defy you to tell the difference from the hi dollar stuff. I think any top brand from Turtle wax to Zano works fine. You just have to have a good surface to apply it on, and get it on well, then get it off. Don't do that....and it won't matter what you use.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/Camber-considerations Larry McReynolds on setting up solid rear for racing. It's certainly true you can build a solid axle Mustang race car that can run with the IRS cars, especially if it has a strong engine and "handles good down the straights". Parts are available that allow you to put in some of the advantages of an IRS rear and taylor the car to whatever track you ae racing on.....build in some negative camber in rear, to go along with the pretty good 3 link panhard bar rear suspension (like a Sprint Cup car). You taylor front and rear suspension to whatever track you are racing on. Street use is far different, and for street use, an IRS suspension (IMHO) is far superior for ride and general handling characteristics. There a good reason most modern cars have IRS suspensions for street use. My last new GT Mustang, a 2008 4.6 V8, would step sideways every time you hit a bump in road under acceleration. I do understand the newer models have eliminated some of this. I also understand why the drag racers would prefer the current set up. They need vertical rear wheels with all rubber planted.....no negative rear camber like most IRS rears run. Solid rears are strong and relatively simple, and drag racers know how to make them perform. I did some drag racing myself, and know what you do. Launching off rev limiter is hard on half shafts in IRS units LOL. For street use, I won't buy another Mustang until it has a modern IRS rear. And I want another Mustang before too long (hopefuly with EB 3.5). Hopefully Ford won't allow the nostalgic drag racing crowd to dictate future Mustang design....if they want the car to survive. I could buy into idea that Mustang is, and needes to remain, sorta a working mans performance car.....if a 5.0 with a couple options was priced under maybe $25,000. But have you priced a new 5.0 premium coupe lately? There are several good cars in the $35,000-40,000 range that compete with Mustang now.

I care what we drive, and since we own a large amount of F stock, I like to buy Ford products even though with success they are getting expensive. Wife's new Limited Edge with NAV is a very nice vehicle, and a very well made vehicle. Can't find a single flaw in build or drivability. Good job....Ford Employees. But I also have needs Ford can't fill. I also like my "funky" 2010 Honda Element, a small volume nich vehicle with production only lasting 7-8 years, with it's rubber floors, seats that fold up or come out, simple controls (does have XM), cheap buy price, and simple reliable 4 cylinder engine for hauling my bicycles (inside...attached to forks), grandkids, and trips to beach and pool store. And for those folks who say just get a hitch and haul bikes on outside on Escape or something....go price a Campagnolo SR group on a custom frame. Bikes just too valuable to haul outside. So like my signature says......I support Ford when i can. Thinking about adding back a Mustang to our "fleet". We always owned one in the past to take to car shows.

Do the Mustangs race cars with solid axle run with some negative camber in rear....like the NASCAR boys do?

Our new 2012 Limited Edge with NAV has Gen 2, 2.11 system. I'm 70, and can figure it our OK. Ours works fine. Don't know what the fuss is about. You do need to study on how it works. And go a little slower than on your home computer. But there is a nice manual for that, or go to Syncmyride.com. I really like getting my stock prices. Also....There is so much misinformation out there about this system. On ours, you don't have to use the voice commands. I can control the AC and heat just like on the 2005 Montego Premere we traded in. I can run it in auto or run it manually, just like before. There is a climate auto on/off. There is AC (compressor) on/off. Recirculate, fan speed....or just leave it on auto. Dual....temp up/down for both sides. Controlled by your fingers, just like before. I mainly just use voice commands for phone use. And Nav changes while I'm driving. Most destinations on Nav I load in before trip. Just like with my portable Garmin. I think it easier to just change a radio station by touch faster than voice. I mostly listen to Sirius....CNBC (market news streams), CNN, or oldies.

My daughter was a Honda fan for 20 years, and recently went to trade her Accord for a new 2012 CRV. After driving it, she didn't want one. She didn't like the seats. Too hard she said. This was after driving wife's new Limited Edge, which is a pretty nice comfortable vehicle. Honda's are now being compared.

I heard the speech. Sounded like a campaign speech to me. Not unlike the one Newt is giving as he travels around the SE. Something for everyone. Romney is a lot more realistic. I think he understands. I would be in favor of letting the Bush tax cuts die. They were instituted because our National budget was in surplus in late 90's, so Congress thought it a good idea to give some back to people (politics). They couldn't stand idea of paying down our debt with it. Then 9-11 happened causing recession, recovery for a while, then another collapse in 07-08. Now we need the revenue. Not worried about effect of going back to Clinon Era tax rate. Most of us were doing well then under those rates. You could add some stumulus to economy in some other ways. Reducing corporate taxes, do the oil pipeline, Rebuild some roads and bridges, enlarge some ports, cut some red tape to allow more drilling, etc. I don't object to borrowing when you create an asset, that has economic benefit, that will last a long time, to offset a liability. They balance eah other. You get a debt, and you have offsetting asset (Interstate Hwy, airport, Port, bridge etc). With welfare, you just get debt....no asset. Gotta stop that. And BTW....Presidents don't have the power to hardly do any of the things they promise. That power rests with Congress. It matters who we elect to Congress. Don't matter so much who next President is. Obama not getting the job done, so he needs to go. But I don't have my hopes up a new guy will be better. And history says stock market will probably do better under second term of dem President, than first of Republican. Improving folks retirement accounts would help regain some confidence. As an Independent, I realize I don't see things like a tea party person does.

We close the Limited to get memory and garage door opener. Didn't want the heavy 20" wheels (figured they hurt performance and economy and ride rougher), but certainly don't like the chrome clad wheels on Limited. I believe I much prefer the stock SEL wheels over the Limited stock wheels.

In todays world, a premium priced car needs something special going for it. More than just the prestige of saying I can afford this vehicle. More than just a plush interior....my Limited Edge has a nice interior. More than an EB engine. Why do BMW loyalists keep buying 5 and 7 series BMW's. (3 series don't count. Secretaries can buy those). What is that "thing" they have? I have driven a 5 series a lot, they do drive special. And they are no more reliable than a Focus.....so it's not reliability. I don't think it's resale value either. It's not snob appeal either....there are a lot of cars more expensive. But I think that's the level of car the MKZ needs to aim at to get the markets attention. Or aim at new Lexus GS 350, Infinity M 37, E series Mercedes, etc. Build a fancy Fusion.....why buy the Lincoln? And it takes more than MFT to make the difference. We recently chose a Limited Edge over the MKX. Just couldn't see how the Lincoln was worth all those extra dollars.

Some people just over inflate their tires. Our new 2012 Edge has a fairly controlled ride, and I like it.

We recently bought an Edge Limited. Chose this over an almost standard MKX. Just didn't see the value in the name "Lincoln" for $8,000 to $10,000 more dollars (or seats with AC). Also afraid of owning a vehicle that may go away in a few years. Sold a 2005 Mecury Montego Premere. Maybe best car I ever owned. But Ford abandoned the vehicle after changing it's name. Didn't help it's value doing that. Lincoln may kill it's self with all the talk. Howevr....my wife much prefers dealing with the Lincoln dealeship for service. They still have that.

Assuming you are runing at light throttle, under ideal conditions....IE ECU not pulling timing from knock, etc.....I would think you would see best fuel economy on 87....it has slightly higher BTU content. "Super" has higher octane rating because additives have been added to reduce volatility so it doesn't fire early (detonation), and it has slightly less energy content than 87. At the very least, would expect to see NO difference in fuel economy between the two....assuming you are running at light throttle. Professionals who enter into gas mileage contests know to tune around the use of 87 (or lower). 85 octane "Mountain" gas might be even better at sea level....if you could keep throttle light enough to not denonate (difficult), or keep ECU from pulling so much timing it hurts power. I know this is about opposite of what most folks think about gasoline. Most assume if it costs more, it must be better. It is true, you can make more HP with high octane fuel. You can gain more power from more compression and timing (and boost) than you lose from the lower volatility fuel. But you have to design the engine and engine management system around the use of premium fuel. Edge with EB not optimized for premium, even if it makes a couple more HP with premium. If designed to use premium only, would expect to see closer to 300 HP with more boost.

With Nav etc. Has most of the goodies. SYNC, MFT, Sirius, HD radio, etc. Drives real nice. 3.5 more than adequate, 6 speed auto shifts up or down when you want it to. Feels solid like a tank. Interior is very nice, like a much more expensive vehicle. It's extremely comfortable. Not really a complaint, but we don't need voice recognition to change climate, sounds, Nav, etc. That's kinda wasted on us. Hands free phone is useful. Can't find a single build flaw or drivability issue with car. Fuel economy about as advertised. Do kinda wonder why it has plastic covered wheels...kinda cheap looking, but they clean up nice and easy. It's wife's car, and wheels not a big issue to her, but do wonder why Ford puts those cheap looking 18" wheels on Limited model. However....these "chrome clad" wheels do not detract from the basic excellence of this vehicle. Would have got SEL with leather, but wife wanted memory seats and built in garage door opener....didn't see one built like that. Decided to pass on EB engine, may not keep this vehicle long enough to be cost effective. Good Job Ford employees.

I don't know many environmentalists who are religious nuts. Most environmentalists have some understanding of science.