Jamers Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 (edited) You heard of the Ford Fusion Challenge. Well now you can take the Ford Edge Challenge. Find any size CUV or SUV that takes longer to stop from 60-0 mph. Sorry the Lincoln MKX does not count. Before you waste too much time I've done a little homework below. The Edge quite possibly has the worst braking in recent history out of all CUV's and SUV's alike. Listed from best to worst regardless of weight. Chevy Trailblazer '06 60-0 mph 119 ft / curb wt. 4523 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2535b.shtml BMW X5 '07 60-0 mph 120 ft / curb wt. 5335 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2635a.shtml Volvo XC90 '06 60-0 mph 124 ft / curb wt. 4610 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2437a.shtml Nissan Murano '03 60-0 mph 124 ft / curb wt. 3806 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2222a.shtml Ford Explorer '06 60-0 mph 125 ft / curb wt. 4531 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2515a.shtml Jeep Grand Cherokee ST-8 60-0 mph 125 ft / curb wt. 3994 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2527a.shtml Chrysler Pacifica '04 60-0 mph 125 ft / curb wt. 4482 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2234.shtml VW Touareg '04 60-0 mph 127 ft / curb wt. 5300 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2304a.shtml Mercedes ML350 '06 60-0 mph 130 ft / curb wt. 4705 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2438a.shtml Cadillac Escalade '07 60-0 mph 133 ft / curb wt. 5459 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2537b.shtml Dodge Durango '04 60-0 mph 133 ft / curb wt. 4921 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2322.shtml Acura MDX '06 60-0 mph 134 ft / curb wt. 4539 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2610b.shtml Mazda CX-9 '07 60-0 mph 136 ft / curb wt. 4546 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2632b.shtml Honda Pilot '03 60-0 mph 136 ft / curb wt. 4439 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2143.shtml Ford Expedition '03 60-0 mph 140 ft / curb wt. 5267 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2139.shtml Ford Edge '07 60-0 mph 146 ft / curb wt. 4073 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2619b.shtml Lincoln MKX '07 60-0 mph 147 ft / curb wt. 4220 lbs http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2614a.shtml Look at this and tell me you don't have concerns. Can we once and for all drop the premise now that the Edge has braking similar to all it's competition? Braking is this vehicle's Achilies Heel. Edited May 15, 2007 by Jamers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy Girl Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 (edited) If it bothers you THAT MUCH... DONT BUY ONE!!!! Im tired of your bitching on this - then go buy the competition and leave the rest of us HAPPY EDGE DRIVERS alone. Besides.. the car does not stop by itself.... Edited May 15, 2007 by Edgy Girl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 One more time: For the last time, the brakes will be addressed within 6 months. When is Honda going to address the ugliness of the CR-V? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Ok, can you admit that Ford has acknowledged this issue and has taken steps to address it? Posting and reposting about the same issue isnt going to make them acknowledge again what they have already acknowledged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 so far we've had ours for 2 weeks and have been able to stop without hitting anybody or anything. I guess we are "lucky" :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 If it bothers you THAT MUCH... DONT BUY ONE!!!! Im tired on your bitching on this - then go buy the competition and leave the rest of us HAPPY EDGE DRIVERS alone. Besides.. the car does not stop by itself.... I can read the stopping distances and it does seem too long, but I'm not sure it matters much in real world. We don't drive on test track. The other day I was doing threshold braking for yellow light as it caught me right at point of no return. I was driving a Taurus and in lane next to me was Edge and driver outbreaked me even though I wad nosediving the Taurus down somewhat. Looks to me like Edge brakes fine with no muss or fuss in real world. I don't see any issue with Edge brakes. Currently drive 2002 Taurus SES Sport, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamers Posted May 16, 2007 Author Share Posted May 16, 2007 (edited) Take it easy folks. I truly am a Edge fan. I'll restate that I love everything about this CUV except for this one issue. I'm just getting tired of various posters minimizes this issue or even denying it outright. When I started comparing some 60-0 figures I was shocked to see that the Edge is dead last compared to virtually everything on the road with 4 wheels. The first step to any recovery is always admitting you have a problem right? I fully expect Ford to address this issue. I plan to be driving one in about 4-5 months so I'll be paying attention closely. I used to hear the same things from my fellow 500 owners regarding the anemic hp/torque of the 3.0 l engine. Everyone kept saying the engine was just fine and that the 3.5 l was overkill. Accusing people like me who were interested in the 3.5 l of being hot rodders. I mainly wanted it because I knew it would make the drive smoother without winding out all the time and more importantly IT WOULD KEEP FORD COMPETITIVE. I know you say the brakes are not an issue in the real world but if BMW started running an aggressive ad campaign on safety comparing the 26 foot braking distance disparity of an Edge to a X5 (like Ford does with the 0-60 times against the BMW) then I'm certain this brake issue would be front page news and Edge sales wouldn't be so good. Why does Ford take unnecessary risks like this? I was just getting used to not having to really think about safety anymore with most cars these days because so many have airbags galore and great crash test ratings to boot. Edited May 16, 2007 by Jamers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy Girl Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 I can respect the concerns - I looked at that issue ... and thought "hmmm" - my brother works the line at OAC - and I asked him directly - and its all about the day to day driving. Yes..is it a technical thing - absolutely - but after 2 weeks of driving - the vehicle does handle fine.. have I tested the limits? - no - and dont intend to. Sales for the Edge have been great - some take the "brake issue" and keep it in mind - it didn't stop me from buying - and it hasn't stopped over 30,000 others - This is GREAT vehicle - is it perfect? No - is there any? Is there room for improvement? Absolutely! People buy their cars for different reason, faults and all - just remember those first tests were done on initial production cars - and I know there has been tons of tweaks along the line - even my side vent trims are no longer chrome - they are matte silver as is the top rim of the center dash - hence no glare. So for now .. I love my Edge - and hell, it corners and handles better than my former sport coupe - No regrets at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 (edited) Jamers, You apparently don't know much about braking performance if you're using only 60-0 numbers. There is SO much more to braking performance than whats indicated in that test. "Stopping distance alone is not the best measure of a brake system's effectiveness, since the tires and suspension can significantly affect this number. In fact, a new brake system may not significantly decrease stopping distance on a one-time test. More important to brake performance are factors such as consistency, repeatability, durability, balance, and resistance to fade. Improved thermal capacity—the ability to absorb and transfer heat—has a direct affect on all of these factors." Oh, and if you really feel you must obsess over 60-0, MT tests the Edge at 142' the same as their SUV of the year last year, the Tahoe, 142'. Besides the Edge vs SUV-of-the-year challenge, why don't you do the Ford Edge vs Lexus LS460 challenge here LINK Edited May 16, 2007 by range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamers Posted May 16, 2007 Author Share Posted May 16, 2007 (edited) Sorry but the Lexus LS460 is a sedan and hence not part of the "Take the Ford Edge Challenge" :-) Stopping distance alone is not the best measure of a brake system's effectiveness, since the tires and suspension can significantly affect this number. OK that has to be the dumbest thing I've read this year. I'll admit a brake system's effectiveness is a factor of many things such as pads, rotors, brake lines, struts, tires, abs tuning, etc but to say that braking distance is not the best measure is absolutely ridiculous. It may not be the only measure but it certainly seems like the primary measure of a braking system. What would you propose we measure? Your comment is like saying the a 0-60 mpg test is not a good measure of an engine's hp/torque performance but yet everyone always wants to know this figure and it's always tested. I've never heard anyone make the argument that the 0-60 test is not the best representation of performance. Anyway, I'm not obsessing but rather researching. I'm sure there's more to braking then just the 60-0 but that seems to be the most popular test. Hey, I didn't invent the test standard you know. Based on the professional reviews I've read the Edge is very susceptible to brake fade after just 2 critical stops. I just can't take all the anecdotal evidence offered up by some of the koolaid drinking Edge owners on this board. A safety issue deserves a more scientific approach. Edited May 16, 2007 by Jamers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Sorry but the Lexus LS460 is a sedan and hence not part of the "Take the Ford Edge Challenge" :-) OK that has to be the dumbest thing I've read this year. I'll admit a brake system's effectiveness is a factor of many things such as pads, rotors, brake lines, struts, tires, abs tuning, etc but to say that braking distance is not the best measure is absolutely ridiculous. It may not be the only measure but it certainly seems like the primary measure of a braking system. What would you propose we measure? Your comment is like saying the a 0-60 mpg test is not a good measure of an engine's hp/torque performance but yet everyone always wants to know this figure and it's always tested. I've never heard anyone make the argument that the 0-60 test is not the best representation of performance. Anyway, I'm not obsessing but rather researching. I'm sure there's more to braking then just the 60-0 but that seems to be the most popular test. Hey, I didn't invent the test standard you know. Based on the professional reviews I've read the Edge is very susceptible to brake fade after just 2 critical stops. I just can't take all the anecdotal evidence offered up by some of the koolaid drinking Edge owners on this board. A safety issue deserves a more scientific approach. Anyone who has ever done any form of racing, you know, where people actually drive vehicles at the limits, could care less about 60-0 braking or 0-60 acceleration. Resistance to brake fade is the most important aspect of braking, to both racers and every day drivers who are constantly doing stop-and-go driving. As for the 0-60, the only people who give a shit about that spec anymore is magazines, and even they are starting to shy away from putting so much weight behind it. 0-100 or a standing 1/4 mile are MUCH better indicators of a vehicle's acceleration performance potential. As someone else pointed out though, why the heck are you arguing about a perceived "problem" that Ford has already said they will address within the next 6 months anyway? It's like complaining now that the Five Hundred doesn't have enough power when there are 265 HP Tauruses already in production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Sorry but the Lexus LS460 is a sedan and hence not part of the "Take the Ford Edge Challenge" :-)OK that has to be the dumbest thing I've read this year. I'll admit a brake system's effectiveness is a factor of many things such as pads, rotors, brake lines, struts, tires, abs tuning, etc but to say that braking distance is not the best measure is absolutely ridiculous. It may not be the only measure but it certainly seems like the primary measure of a braking system. What would you propose we measure? Your comment is like saying the a 0-60 mpg test is not a good measure of an engine's hp/torque performance but yet everyone always wants to know this figure and it's always tested. I've never heard anyone make the argument that the 0-60 test is not the best representation of performance. Anyway, I'm not obsessing but rather researching. I'm sure there's more to braking then just the 60-0 but that seems to be the most popular test. Hey, I didn't invent the test standard you know. Based on the professional reviews I've read the Edge is very susceptible to brake fade after just 2 critical stops. I just can't take all the anecdotal evidence offered up by some of the koolaid drinking Edge owners on this board. A safety issue deserves a more scientific approach. Dont recall ever (in 15 years of driving) doing 0-60 or 60-0, i do variations between those numbers and above those numbers to somewhere in that range. I think i posted elsewhere about how much a fraction of a second of delay in starting the "emergency braking" could easily make up the difference between these one-time test "scores". If the drive is 0.1 seconds later at starting the car stopping compared to the others it would travel 8.8 feet at a speed of 88 fps (60mph), thus the 20 feet difference between top scorer, Trailblazer, and the lowest, Edge, according to some rag's review is about 0.26 seconds, not long compared to the average reaction time of 0.3 seconds, plenty of room for error there. As for the Trailblazer being the top-rating of that list, makes me laugh, while our work SUV's are a little battered, there is no way in hell it stops quickly from my couple of 1000 miles driving one in various road and climate conditions around here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamers Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 (edited) Nick, are you seriously comparing racing to typical tooling around town stop and go traffic? There's no real world comparison. After a comment like that I'm not sure you have any credibility left. I challenge you to provide any proof that the 60-0 mph braking test has now been rendered meaningless. Which magazines are shying away from using it anymore? Show me where some other standard is actually being instituted and adopted to measure braking performance. And by the way, this isn't a perceived problem. There has been several consistent complaints about the braking performance from all the reputable car review sites and magazines. I could cut and paste quotes and specs here all day but I think I've made my point. This isn't just some fluke as Sim suggest due to reaction time in the braking test. I might believe that in one test but all the testers present high #'s for the Edge. These people do this for a living. They are not infallible but they are professionals and I'll take their test results over your anecdotal evidence. That's said, I'm not bashing the Edge. I love it and look forward to driving the 2008 once this issue is behind us. But it's only fair to present the facts so current prospective buyers can make an educated choice between the 2007 and 2008 models. Next time we folks start talking about the upcoming 2008 Edge brake improvements and you feel compelled to jump in and start denying a problem even exists, just don't. If you must, start your own thread and post all the hard evidence you can find that says the Edge is as good or better in braking than most other CUV's and SUV's. I'd like to see that post. I even promise I won't jump in and personally bash you. And by the way, I'm still waiting for someone to take me up on the Ford Edge Challenge. :rolleyes: Edited May 17, 2007 by Jamers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Nick, are you seriously comparing racing to typical tooling around town stop and go traffic? There's no real world comparison. After a comment like that I'm not sure you have any credibility left. I challenge you to provide any proof that the 60-0 mph braking test has now been rendered meaningless. Which magazines are shying away from using it anymore? Show me where some other standard is actually being instituted and adopted to measure braking performance. And by the way, this isn't a perceived problem. There has been several consistent complaints about the braking performance from all the reputable car review sites and magazines. I could cut and paste quotes and specs here all day but I think I've made my point. This isn't just some fluke as Sim suggest due to reaction time in the braking test. I might believe that in one test but all the testers present high #'s for the Edge. These people do this for a living. They are not infallible but they are professionals and I'll take their test results over your anecdotal evidence. That's said, I'm not bashing the Edge. I love it and look forward to driving the 2008 once this issue is behind us. But it's only fair to present the facts so current prospective buyers can make an educated choice between the 2007 and 2008 models. Next time we folks start talking about the upcoming 2008 Edge brake improvements and you feel compelled to jump in and start denying a problem even exists, just don't. If you must, start your own thread and post all the hard evidence you can find that says the Edge is as good or better in braking than most other CUV's and SUV's. I'd like to see that post. I even promise I won't jump in and personally bash you. And by the way, I'm still waiting for someone to take me up on the Ford Edge Challenge. :rolleyes: My point is, unless you are racing, performance specs like 60-0 braking and 0-60 acceleration are pretty meaningless. How many times do people do 60-0 stops? I've never done in my life. 0-60? The only time I have gone full throttle from a stop to 60+ MPH is when racing, and when doing that, NOBODY gives a rat's ass about how fast you get to 60 MPH. Magazines tend to use a lot of stupid performance measures simply because there is no other tangible number they can apply to all vehicles. How would you measure brake fade and give it a tangible comparative number? You can't. How do you see which vehicle performs best on a road course? The only way is to run every car you test on the same track in the same conditions, and that's not possible, so they give us tangible numbers like slalom, skidpad, 0-60, etc. It doesn't mean they have any valid meaning, it's just something that can easily be compared between vehicles. It's filler. Nothing more. Now quit your freakin' complaining about the Edge's brakes, because they ARE being addressed, so whining now isn't going to make anything happen any faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamers Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 More pure genius brought to you by Nick The only time I have gone full throttle from a stop to 60+ MPH is when racing, and when doing that, NOBODY gives a rat's ass about how fast you get to 60 MPH. Just you saying all that other crap doesn't make it true. You have nothing to back it up. Instead you resort to name calling and petty behavior in an attempt goad me into lowering myself to your level. You live in your own world where you obviously run a dictatorship. I reside in the real world of science and empirical evidence. And never the two shall meet. I won't be responding to anymore of your posts. I'm making a Bold Move and Moving Forward. Now run along and go play your Xbox 360 or go text your friends or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 (edited) More pure genius brought to you by Nick Just you saying all that other crap doesn't make it true. You have nothing to back it up. Instead you resort to name calling and petty behavior in an attempt goad me into lowering myself to your level. You live in your own world where you obviously run a dictatorship. I reside in the real world of science and empirical evidence. And never the two shall meet. I won't be responding to anymore of your posts. I'm making a Bold Move and Moving Forward. Now run along and go play your Xbox 360 or go text your friends or something. Pot? Meet the kettle. Who the hell is the one calling people names and acting like a child here? You'd need a ladder to climb up to my level. Empirical evidence only gets you so far. I could give you empirical evidence of why the colors on your television are brighter, but only anecdotal observation is going to tell you if the picture is any good. I could give you empirical evidence of why your computer is running slow, but only anecdotal observation is going to tell us if it's actually too slow for what you need it to do. Hard numbers don't mean anything until they are applied to a real world situation. Numbers like 60-0 and 0-60 are rarely, if ever, applied to a real world situation that most drivers will ever encounter. Therefore, they are relatively useless to most consumers. Like I said before, they are filler, used mostly to make the magazines look like they know what the heck they are talking about. Good day to you, sir. PS -- I don't own an X-Box. Edited May 17, 2007 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAC_Sparky Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 Take it easy folks. I truly am a Edge fan. I'll restate that I love everything about this CUV except for this one issue. I'm just getting tired of various posters minimizes this issue or even denying it outright. I think I can speak for most that we're tired of you whining about it. I drove a car with non-assisted braking and never run into anything. On paper, yes, it seems that the Edge's braking stats trail its competition's. And Ford is addressing it. The people that actually own the vehicle, most don't seem to notice or have an issue. I suppose if you drive like an asshat you'd need that 10'. So do us all a favour, just move on. Don't buy it. We want you to be happy with your purchase, we want you to feel safe. They say that you can't please everybody. Statistically, 10% of vehicle buyers will be happy even if the vehicle is a piece of crap, and 10% will never be satisfied even if the vehicle is perfect. After reading your posts, it seems you are towards the latter type of buyer. Be safe, be happy. If you have this compulsive obsessive disorder with the Edge braking system, just pass on it. Because I'm betting that after they address the braking issue you'll be obsessing about something else. Just buy the Lexus and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 A question for jamers, and anyone else here..................... has there been any Edge test that has not involved preproduction models?? From everything I have read, preproduction cars were the only ones that have actually been tested. Much can change between preproduction and the vehicles showing up on the showroom floor. That said, to reiterate what everyone else has said..................... 60-0 distances only matter in complete panic stops. Cars/trucks from just a couple of years ago consistantly braked in further distances than the preproduction tests that you have complained about constantly.................. yet, there are still people alive to talk about it. I have driven vehicles with substantially worse braking than you list, and have never had an accident due to it.................or even been close to one. Thus, unless you drive like a total ahole all the time, you really will not notice the difference. BTW, have you actually driven the car?? If not, then you have zero credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamers Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 (edited) A question for jamers, and anyone else here..................... has there been any Edge test that has not involved preproduction models??....BTW, have you actually driven the car?? I have read lots of comments about some of the tests being pre-production but I've never seen a definitive answer. I'm sure some of the road tests involved pre-production but I'm also sure I've seen some tests conducted in late 2006 or and early 2007 that had to be production cars by then. Yes I have driven the Edge. Also, I haven't read anything but speculation about possible changes/improvements to the braking system between pre-production and production. To me it would seem Ford would not have made even the simplest of changes such as brake pads because the parts are probably all contracted for and ordered if not already delivered to the factory. Case in point, the Conti tires (which is the only thing Ford has said early will change) are not being installed until the 2008 model. You'd think that would be the easiest change to implement mid-production but they aren't. They have commitments with suppliers for the whole production cycle. A mid-production change would be costly. Someone did mention the fronts struts were being changed but that was due to a floaty feel highway speeds. No confirmation if it also improved braking. We know the Edge reportly dives down on panic stops. The weight then shifts to the front rendering the rear brakes nearly useless. Maybe the new struts will reduce this effect. As for speculation of brake improvements for the 2008, many on this forum have argued there is really no problem to begin with so maybe no change even needs to be implemented. We seem to have a consensus that 145+ feet 60-0 is at the high end as compared to the competition. To be honest, I'm not sure Ford would ever publicly say "We changed X, X and X to improve the braking." That would likely open the doors on future litigation on 2007 Edge models. What we are really seeking here is insider knowledge of production changes for the '08 model. I plan to get a one very early in the new model year and would like to have some assurances in advance that improvements, however subtle, took place. I doubt MotorTrend, Car & Driver, Consumer Reports, Motorweek, etc will all rush out and perform new test on the '08 Edge after just having tested it 9 months earlier. If I knew improvements were made then I'd feel better about ordering '08 site unseen in July for deliver in early Sept. That's my plan anyway. Vehicle crashes are still the #1 cause of accidental deaths in this country. The # exceeds 40,000 pr/yr. http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html Yes braking in cars has improved over the last few decades but that doesn't mean it couldn't or shouldn't be improved still. Edited May 21, 2007 by Jamers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) The BS DETECTOR bell is ringing. Jammer pretends to be open minded about braking stats, but look at what he provided above. Jammers first "comparison" vehicle is listed as: "Chevy Trailblazer '06 60-0 mph 119 ft / curb wt. 4523 lbs" What Jammers conveniently LEFT OUT was that this was for a Trailblazer SS model !!!!!!!!! The SS model is the limited-production 6.0 V8 model that a has larger, Corvette-spec braking system with 20 inch high-performance Eagle RS-A tires. It's like comparing a SVT Cobra GT500 to a V6 Mustang or an SVT Focus to a Focus ZX3. The regular production Trailblazer tests at 60 - 0 in 140', one foot shorter than Motor Trend's test of the Edge at 141'. I think its very clear what Jammers is doing. Edited May 22, 2007 by range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.