igor Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 It's better than any of the Japanese mini-vans, but ford keeps their best away from America.. really? - no sliders - no fold flat second OR THIRD row of seats - no power fold or remote fold seats - no power lift gate or doors - lack of storage areas - tiny third row seats - narrow - lack of shoulder room - low - lack of head room - ride too firm - engine not up to par (thirsty and not as powerful) yeah totally it is HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the competition ... Ford would steal the market from the Dodge/Chrysler minivans with they awful stow-n-go and swivel-n-go seats, three different entertainment systems, etc or from the Japanese with their refined V6, cubbies everywhere and legendary reliability... they have no chance .. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 really?- no sliders - no fold flat second OR THIRD row of seats - no power fold or remote fold seats - no power lift gate or doors - lack of storage areas - tiny third row seats - narrow - lack of shoulder room - low - lack of head room - ride too firm - engine not up to par (thirsty and not as powerful) yeah totally it is HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the competition ... Ford would steal the market from the Dodge/Chrysler minivans with they awful stow-n-go and swivel-n-go seats, three different entertainment systems, etc or from the Japanese with their refined V6, cubbies everywhere and legendary reliability... they have no chance .. Igor it hasn't been Americanized yet, if it were to come here it would need to be tweaked to better sustain the American market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 That would include, many more cup-holders, a few more trash bins, and bigger cushier seats for fat asses, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Yes, its all a giant conspiracy... I thought I told you to go away? The proof that you're a troll and that Robert should ip ban your ass is how you follow me around and make your childish little comments everytime I make a post. STFU already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 really?- no sliders - no fold flat second OR THIRD row of seats - no power fold or remote fold seats - no power lift gate or doors - lack of storage areas - tiny third row seats - narrow - lack of shoulder room - low - lack of head room - ride too firm - engine not up to par (thirsty and not as powerful) yeah totally it is HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the competition ... Ford would steal the market from the Dodge/Chrysler minivans with they awful stow-n-go and swivel-n-go seats, three different entertainment systems, etc or from the Japanese with their refined V6, cubbies everywhere and legendary reliability... they have no chance .. Igor Who actually uses gimmicks like those? "swivel and go seats"? Are you kidding me? I don't even know what the hell that means, the Chrysler min-vans are pieces of shit, ever been in one?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 (edited) Who actually uses gimmicks like those? "swivel and go seats"? Are you kidding me? I don't even know what the hell that means, the Chrysler min-vans are pieces of shit, ever been in one?? Sure..... right...... THAT explains why Chrysler owns 40% of the minivan market! My 2006 T&C has 20k trouble-free miles on it, and is DEFINITELY not a "piece of shit". Sorry. If you're referring to the plastic-ness of the interiors, I agree that they're not "luxo-barges". But I the materials are durable, don't squeak, have stayed in place, and perform extremely well under the barrage that kids (the intended market) dish out. Do the current models have a few long-term potential issues? It appears so, based on posts on Edmunds, etc. But most of the forums you read will expose each vehicle's achilles heel(s) after 50-70k of driving. But you can save yourself the hyperbole when referring to the Chrysler minivans as POS'es. -Ovaltine P.S. I agree however that the "Swivel and Go" concept leaves me a bit cold. That concept doesn't even come close to the front seat "Stow-n-Go" in usefulness. Hell.... most of the time you WANT you kids "eyes-n-butts forward", just to stop the bickering! :lol: Edited August 4, 2007 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 (edited) While slightly larger, I'd have to say that Ford is exhibiting some signs of Rondo-icity! :lol: From previous threads, some folks will remember that I was advocating just such a vehicle for Ford, due to the explosion of fuel prices. I say if this bad-boy can be federalized easily and cheaply enough, I say send it over and see how it sells. Unfortunately the monetary exchange rate with the weakened dollar may pose a profitablity issue if these are made outside of the Eastern bloc countries. But -- if it was a big enough hit, perhaps manufacturing could be brought here to somewhere in NA. In any case, congrats to Ford for considering this. This is *exactly* the type of vehicle that I was proposing in the earlier threads. It IS a given however, that Ford would have to market the hell out of it for awhile to make people aware of its existence and benefits. The fuel mileage and room for the occasional 7 passengers (which covers ALOT of minivan owners) would have to be strongly touted. -Ovaltine Kia Rondo Dimensions Overall Length, in. 179.0 Overall Width, in. 71.7 Overall Height, in. 65.0 Wheelbase, in. 106.3 Curb Weight, lbs. 3333 S-Max Dimensions Overall length 188 inches Overall width 85 inches Overall height 65 inches Wheelbase 112 inches Mazda Mazda5 Overall length 177 inches Overall width 69.1 inches Overall height 63.6 inches Wheelbase 108 inches Edited August 4, 2007 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 (edited) Besides .. the ONE car without a hood in the segment you mentioned - Mazda5 - is the sore loser in sales - despite being good head and shoulders above the rest in execution and practicality. Igor The stats below demonstrate what a little marketing can do. Imagine if Ford threw their name and a little $$$ behind a good campaign for the S-Max, what looks like a superior vehicle to both of these. July 2007 Sales: Rondo 2,222 Mazda5 956 Edited August 4, 2007 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Instead of the S-Max, Ford could execute a better Mazda5. Granted, the Mazda5 receives some improvements this year like the much needed 5 speed auto, but take the Mazda5, stretch it a bit, give it around 200HP/6speed, style it a bit less than a minivan and it should do better at Ford dealerships. Ironically, All the above was already present, on the previous MPV, and that too was a sales disaster. I blame pricing actually since it cost just as the much larger competitors...And yes, it drove quite well for a small minivan. The S-Max reminds me much of that MPV actually. Hmm, could the S-Max have been a better MPV...or was the MPV the fore-runner to a better S-Max....hmm things to ponder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I thought I told you to go away? The proof that you're a troll and that Robert should ip ban your ass is how you follow me around and make your childish little comments everytime I make a post. STFU already... "It's better than any of the Japanese mini-vans, but ford keeps their best away from America.." That was obviously not true. Your comments are always negative and educated. You need to be taken to task on them from time to time. I'm not the only on that does it. On another note, I do not follow you around. Like many on this site, I go from thread to thread until I've read all the new posts. When I see a post like that, I have to say say something. If you want to say something like the statement above, perhaps you should back it up with some facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardmayo Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 The S-Max currently has fold flat 2nd and 3rd row seats, as well as under seat and under floor. S-Max interior Other than the sliders, all of the other interior comfort and convenience stuff that Igor points out as missing in this market mean little to me. I am willing to do without them if it means having a lower price. I'm not sure these MPV (Mazda5, Rondo) vehicles are even competing against the Caravan / Odyssey / Sienna. They're smaller, sportier, and appeal to a younger demo that wants utility without the supposed minivan stigma - you know those who like to live on the Edge-uh (sorry couldn't resist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regfootball Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 (edited) mazda 5 doesn't do well. the small thing is kind of nerdy in the US Edited August 4, 2007 by regfootball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 mazda 5 doesn't do well. the small thing is kind of nerdy in the US I think that the 5 speed will fix the main problem. It is stylish and very useful. The things that come standard and the practicality of the vehicle make it a winner in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regfootball Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 mazda5 is not known for good gas mileage or lots of power either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 mazda5 is not known for good gas mileage or lots of power either. Hence the 5 speeds improvements. It should help both of those things. Besides, there are many vehicles that sell well that are not known for gas mileage or power.....especially power. The 5 is cheap, practical, and very usable. I wish I had one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Just this weekend, my best-friend drove up to visit me from the Banana Republic of Miami. She herself has a Mazda5 which she loves, it serves her needs greatly. Her previous vehicle was a '03 Saturn L300 which now her husband drives. Ironically, she drove the Saturn up because at 80-90MPH on the turnpike, her Saturn returns a respectable 28MPG (tall 4th gear, typical of GM). The times she's driven the Mazda5 up, she'll get around 19-21MPG. The Mazda5 really just needs a 5 speed, and a welcomed 2.5L I-4 with maybe 180-190HP would be appreciated as well. For the price, it's a very hard bargain to beat. Granted, I can nit-pick, too many hard plastic panels (but shes had 3 Saturns in the past so she's used to that). But fully optioned with everything AND Navi, she walked out the showroom at $19,210. I don't think there's many other quality dignified vehicles that can haul that many people at that price level which was her main priority. And yes, it's fun to drive for what it is...zoom zoom zoom... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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