Wow, people hate ALL auto workers....

[DearbornDerek]

Woo hoo!! :happy feet: . No matter which company you work for the public hates us.

 

http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...g=kr-kentuckytm

 

About five pages of comments. :reading:

 

Here is the article that got the comments going

 

http://www.kentucky.com/454/story/162960.html

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

There's a lot of jealousy out there.

[davdog]

There's a lot of jealousy out there.

 

Not for long. I'm sure those people are just pissed that people who have a tough time spelling 5 letter words are making out better than them.

 

Someone should tell them that things balance out in September, err I mean the end. (then end of what)

[Harry Bennet]

Woo hoo!! :happy feet: . No matter which company you work for the public hates us.

 

http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...g=kr-kentuckytm

 

About five pages of comments. :reading:

 

Here is the article that got the comments going

 

http://www.kentucky.com/454/story/162960.html

WOW, you must have touched a nerve, they took the articles down

but I'm not surprised, there are so many urban legends about auto workers:

A wife beater who spends 3 months and jail and the union gets his job back

drug users who have been thru rehab 13 times or more and still have jobs

that auto workers make more than teachers, cops, firemen, LP nurses

 

now there is a bit of truth to each of these and the public knows it

 

the UAW has a huge PR problem

[Trimdingman]

WOW, you must have touched a nerve, they took the articles down

but I'm not surprised, there are so many urban legends about auto workers:

A wife beater who spends 3 months and jail and the union gets his job back

drug users who have been thru rehab 13 times or more and still have jobs

that auto workers make more than teachers, cops, firemen, LP nurses

 

now there is a bit of truth to each of these and the public knows it

 

the UAW has a huge PR problem

 

 

The average worker on the line builds a car every twenty hours or less, even when these negatives are factored in. There is no industry in the world that has that kind of productivity. They deserve every penny that they earn and more. The people who are jealous should look at what they produce and compare it with what an auto-worker produces. They would soon realize that they are the ones who are overpaid.

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

Not for long. I'm sure those people are just pissed that people who have a tough time spelling 5 letter words are making out better than them.

 

Someone should tell them that things balance out in September, err I mean the end. (then end of what)

 

Thanks for proving my point.

[davdog]

Thanks for proving my point.

 

 

No jealously here, my brother is a former electrician in a recently closed plant, well he isn't former yet, but soon. I'd say I feel sorrier for you guys than anything else. My brother is a guy who could have done so much more in life then assemble cars yet the high pay sucked him in. Now where does he take that experience and make money? When he does get a job he'll be lucky to be making half the money he was. Jealous? I think not.

[Roadrunner]

Toyota is making more profit every year and they continue to take more from employees.

 

Yup.

[Harry Bennet]

The average worker on the line builds a car every twenty hours or less, even when these negatives are factored in. There is no industry in the world that has that kind of productivity. They deserve every penny that they earn and more. The people who are jealous should look at what they produce and compare it with what an auto-worker produces. They would soon realize that they are the ones who are overpaid.

the cops, teachers, nurses, and firemen are overpaid? but car assemblers are not? I cannot agree, its not as if the people assembling the cars did the designing, engineering, or invested any capital into the process.

The whole reason there is a UAW is because all the other unions at that time saw mass production as a skill-less task not worthy of a union. Only the profitability of the auto companies made unionizing worth the trouble

 

and now the circle is nearly complete, the unionized auto companies are doomed to bankruptcy with legacy costs that a union is hardly necessary

Edited September 3, 2007 by Harry Bennet

[Roadrunner]

The people who are jealous should look at what they produce and compare it with what an auto-worker produces. They would soon realize that they are the ones who are overpaid.

 

First off, I'm not jealous. Look at how the people at

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...showtopic=16148

 

are talking to each other. They make intelligent factory workers like OAC_Sparky, Pioneer and MTMafia get piled on with the "dumb factory worker" label. Cut the lowest end of the spectrum. Those guys belong elsewhere - it's why people see autoworkers as stupid.

 

Second off, it is a fair thing to say "look at what they produce and compare to an autoworker" but I believe there needs to be a second variable included: "look at how hard it is intellectually."

See, everyone usually undercuts other professions and believes that their own is a difficult thing to do.

 

But the "walk in my shoes" argument often is effective in stifling them.

 

I would say that the lowest level of employment is consumer retail, perhaps above being a fruit picker. Basic yard maintenance (not building maintenance, but yard maintenance) comes in there as well.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Roadrunner

[mrballsonya]

the cops, teachers, nurses, and firemen are overpaid?

 

Yes. When compared to the actual physical "WORK' that an assembler performs every day.

 

Cops, teachers, nurses and fireman are all honorable professions, but these jobs don't compare physically do the average factory worker. Most police drive around all day, issuing speeding citations and "keeping everyone safe". Most Fireman get paid to do nothing other than be "ON Call" for an emergency. Yeah the Fireman wash the trucks, do training exercises, and make dinner... but the actual work they do in average 40 hour work week pales in comparison to an average factory worker. I'm not trying to discount the heroism of what they do, as I'd give anything to someone that saved one of my kids. But as far as pay for actual time worked, there is no comparison. I'd be wiling to bet that any Police officer or Fireman would probably quit a manufacturing job within the first week. The monotony and constant work would send them fleeing for the doors. There is no humiliation like being told when you can and can't go to the bathroom.

 

Nurses do have to perform some pretty nasty functions to warrant their pay, but most of their time is still spent in a chair updating charts, and making notes for the doctors.

 

Teachers are important, they guide, teach and inspire our offspring. Unfortunately according to International statistics, either U.S. teachers aren't doing a very good job or the U.S. just has Dumb kids.

 

So where does this argument go from here...? Yes police and Firemen are put in some very precarious situations, but it's probably less than 1% of the time. I think you'll find that nationally, industrial death and injury is at least on par if not worse than the injury and mortality rate of the "protection trades".

 

You don't have to be a genius to be a nurse, you just have to be able to read, write, take blood, insert catheters, empty bed pans, and take notes... "I know I'm oversimplifying the Job, but it's not rocket science".

 

And then we have Teachers. My mom is a High School English teacher and she goes over and beyond whats expected. She comes up with different curriculum's every year, she stays after school way longer than what is required. She makes herself available to any student at any hour of the day, and she deals with belligerent parents who can't understand why the kid that they never see or talk to is failing. But......She doesn't do any physical work, other than haul stacks of tests and books into the classroom. She also gets the summer months off, with pay. In all honesty, I wouldn't want to put up with the crap that she does for her salary...but it sure would be nice to have the whole summer off.

 

Just as a Sub note...... I'd like to add that when compared to your average landscape laborer, Manufacturing workers are way overpaid. When I drive through my neighborhood, I always see guys busting their asses for probably $10 an hour. I'm thankful for everyday that I don't have to subside doing that for a living.

Edited September 3, 2007 by mrballsonya

[Trimdingman]

the cops, teachers, nurses, and firemen are overpaid? but car assemblers are not? I cannot agree, its not as if the people assembling the cars did the designing, engineering, or invested any capital into the process.

The whole reason there is a UAW is because all the other unions at that time saw mass production as a skill-less task not worthy of a union. Only the profitability of the auto companies made unionizing worth the trouble

 

and now the circle is nearly complete, the unionized auto companies are doomed to bankruptcy with legacy costs that a union is hardly necessary

 

Pick a job on the line. Engine install, for example. How mant engines do you think that he installs in a 10 hour shift? Ten? Fifty? Try SIX HUNDRED or more. That is every day. How much does the company profit from this over and above what he is paid? Easy a thousand per cent. People who work in the oil fields have a rough life, but nothing compared to the line. They make up to double what auto workers make. On the line, if you need to take a piss, you have to hold it. If you have to go too often, maybe you have to start wearing diapers. There was a diabetic who needed to go for shots at a certain time. He couldn't get it, so he had to work ahead so that he could give himself the shots while the line was moving. Would a fireman, teacher, or nurse, or oil field worker, or engineer ever have those problems? Life expectancy of auto workers is way below the national average. More people have died since I started than I can count. It is almost like a battlefield. THEY EARN THEIR MONRY. Many see their marriages fail because of the shifts and long hours and end up working for minimum wage after support payments are deducted. That is worse than slavery. Anybody would have to be crazy to WANT to work in the auto industry.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Trimdingman

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

My brother is a guy who could have done so much more in life then assemble cars yet the high pay sucked him in.

 

Your brother isn't the only guy who got sucked in by the good pay and benefits.

 

There's many intelligent, educated people doing assembly work simply because of the pay and benefits.

[Footballfan]

As opposed to this nation being resentful of what people make, why not try to bring other occupations up to respectable pay and benefits? We can argue that the autoworkers make too much money, but hey, look at how much of the economy that is supported with their wages and benefits. You are not going to see the economic spinoff from USA's new flagship employer Wal-Mart.

[Pioneer]

They make intelligent factory workers like OAC_Sparky, Pioneer and MTMafia get piled on with the "dumb factory worker" label.

 

Awww, shucks. I wub you too.

[Roadrunner]

Hey, I gotta admit - I respect your gusto.

[Furious1Auto]

Yes. When compared to the actual physical "WORK' that an assembler performs every day.

 

Cops, teachers, nurses and fireman are all honorable professions, but these jobs don't compare physically do the average factory worker. Most police drive around all day, issuing speeding citations and "keeping everyone safe". Most Fireman get paid to do nothing other than be "ON Call" for an emergency. Yeah the Fireman wash the trucks, do training exercises, and make dinner... but the actual work they do in average 40 hour work week pales in comparison to an average factory worker. I'm not trying to discount the heroism of what they do, as I'd give anything to someone that saved one of my kids. But as far as pay for actual time worked, there is no comparison. I'd be wiling to bet that any Police officer or Fireman would probably quit a manufacturing job within the first week. The monotony and constant work would send them fleeing for the doors. There is no humiliation like being told when you can and can't go to the bathroom.

 

Nurses do have to perform some pretty nasty functions to warrant their pay, but most of their time is still spent in a chair updating charts, and making notes for the doctors.

 

Teachers are important, they guide, teach and inspire our offspring. Unfortunately according to International statistics, either U.S. teachers aren't doing a very good job or the U.S. just has Dumb kids.

 

So where does this argument go from here...? Yes police and Firemen are put in some very precarious situations, but it's probably less than 1% of the time. I think you'll find that nationally, industrial death and injury is at least on par if not worse than the injury and mortality rate of the "protection trades".

 

You don't have to be a genius to be a nurse, you just have to be able to read, write, take blood, insert catheters, empty bed pans, and take notes... "I know I'm oversimplifying the Job, but it's not rocket science".

 

And then we have Teachers. My mom is a High School English teacher and she goes over and beyond whats expected. She comes up with different curriculum's every year, she stays after school way longer than what is required. She makes herself available to any student at any hour of the day, and she deals with belligerent parents who can't understand why the kid that they never see or talk to is failing. But......She doesn't do any physical work, other than haul stacks of tests and books into the classroom. She also gets the summer months off, with pay. In all honesty, I wouldn't want to put up with the crap that she does for her salary...but it sure would be nice to have the whole summer off.

 

Just as a Sub note...... I'd like to add that when compared to your average landscape laborer, Manufacturing workers are way overpaid. When I drive through my neighborhood, I always see guys busting their asses for probably $10 an hour. I'm thankful for everyday that I don't have to subside doing that for a living.

Well said!

[tcap for now]

maybe the history of the uaw should be taught in school. does anyone think toyota pays decent with decent benefits to be nice? they dont want the union in. they would be like walmart if the uaw didnt exist. the whole country would be different without unions.

 

why does everyone show outrage at what autoworkers make, but are fine with executive pay? if the top execs in most companies took a 30% paycut, they would still be filthy rich and we could keep some benefits. if the top brass were giving on the same scale maybe we would have to complain.

the money the toyota workers are being asked to pay each month, would likely equal thousands if compared in percentage to executive pay. if it were ford or chevy execs id say millions. and it seems they are making a lot of bad decisions and being well compensated for them.

 

if you think autoworkers make too much, try to be one. all you have to do in most cases is apply until you get in. it could take a few years. but people retire all the time. be patient. then pass the test. then you wont have to complain about some one elses pay.

 

that said i also think equal work for equal pay should apply to our union reps across the board. if elected or appointed to office that oficials pay and benefits should be the same as top worker in the plant they came from. i think the president of the uaw should have the same pay and benefits (including medical and pension) as a line worker. i may be willing to say a line worker working 58 hours a week, if he is working that many hours and can proove it. then maybe they would pay more attention to what they agree too.

[Furious1Auto]

maybe the history of the uaw should be taught in school. does anyone think toyota pays decent with decent benefits to be nice? they dont want the union in. they would be like walmart if the uaw didnt exist. the whole country would be different without unions.

 

why does everyone show outrage at what autoworkers make, but are fine with executive pay? if the top execs in most companies took a 30% paycut, they would still be filthy rich and we could keep some benefits. if the top brass were giving on the same scale maybe we would have to complain.

the money the toyota workers are being asked to pay each month, would likely equal thousands if compared in percentage to executive pay. if it were ford or chevy execs id say millions. and it seems they are making a lot of bad decisions and being well compensated for them.

 

if you think autoworkers make too much, try to be one. all you have to do in most cases is apply until you get in. it could take a few years. but people retire all the time. be patient. then pass the test. then you wont have to complain about some one elses pay.

 

that said i also think equal work for equal pay should apply to our union reps across the board. if elected or appointed to office that oficials pay and benefits should be the same as top worker in the plant they came from. i think the president of the uaw should have the same pay and benefits (including medical and pension) as a line worker. i may be willing to say a line worker working 58 hours a week, if he is working that many hours and can proove it. then maybe they would pay more attention to what they agree too.

Good man!

[Pioneer]

Nurses do have to perform some pretty nasty functions to warrant their pay, but most of their time is still spent in a chair updating charts, and making notes for the doctors.

 

I suspect you don't know many nurses if that is what you think they do.

[OUTGOING]

You bring up a interesting point, why isn't there equal sacrfice from both sides of the table. The media talks about how the Big 3 wants to close the gap between the competition, and the only way we can do this is by all hourly workers taking a 30 percent pay/benefit cut.(Not that I believe that number). But lets ask why isn't the company/stockholders asking to close the gap on the salar side. Whens the last time you heard of a foreign executive making 28 million dollars. Never becuase its never happened and never will! I believe the top executives at Toyota makes around $300,000 a year. My numbers maybe off a little but, either way you slice it we the autoworker are not the only one sucking the cow dry. If these exes. for Ford really wanted to see the company turn around then lead by example, and not force us to take pay cuts, but make all salary take a cut and see what happens. After all we the great Union Autoworker all the ones in the end that add sweat, blood, and value to these vechiles. When this all plays out in the next couple of weeks I hope we can all say THANK YOU, to a union that has protected us to the best of their abilities instead of just saying " I don't know why I pay Union dues, all they do is drink, and smoke"

 

GOOD LUCK to all!!!!!

[CD4EMAN]

Pick a job on the line. Engine install, for example. How mant engines do you think that he installs in a 10 hour shift? Ten? Fifty? Try SIX HUNDRED or more. That is every day. How much does the company profit from this over and above what he is paid? Easy a thousand per cent. People who work in the oil fields have a rough life, but nothing compared to the line. They make up to double what auto workers make. On the line, if you need to take a piss, you have to hold it. If you have to go too often, maybe you have to start wearing diapers. There was a diabetic who needed to go for shots at a certain time. He couldn't get it, so he had to work ahead so that he could give himself the shots while the line was moving. Would a fireman, teacher, or nurse, or oil field worker, or engineer ever have those problems? Life expectancy of auto workers is way below the national average. More people have died since I started than I can count. It is almost like a battlefield. THEY EARN THEIR MONRY. Many see their marriages fail because of the shifts and long hours and end up working for minimum wage after support payments are deducted. That is worse than slavery. Anybody would have to be crazy to WANT to work in the auto industry.

 

 

Very good point, also people say those toyota employees make great $ and benes, but their good fortune is due to the UAW and the fear of us getting in there ranks.

[Harry Bennet]

Pick a job on the line. Engine install, for example. How mant engines do you think that he installs in a 10 hour shift? Ten? Fifty? Try SIX HUNDRED or more. That is every day. How much does the company profit from this over and above what he is paid? Easy a thousand per cent. People who work in the oil fields have a rough life, but nothing compared to the line. They make up to double what auto workers make. On the line, if you need to take a piss, you have to hold it. If you have to go too often, maybe you have to start wearing diapers. There was a diabetic who needed to go for shots at a certain time. He couldn't get it, so he had to work ahead so that he could give himself the shots while the line was moving. Would a fireman, teacher, or nurse, or oil field worker, or engineer ever have those problems? Life expectancy of auto workers is way below the national average. More people have died since I started than I can count. It is almost like a battlefield. THEY EARN THEIR MONRY. Many see their marriages fail because of the shifts and long hours and end up working for minimum wage after support payments are deducted. That is worse than slavery. Anybody would have to be crazy to WANT to work in the auto industry.

no one doubts that is hard work. However if there was a strike or lock out at an auto company, they could offer $20/hr for the same jobs 1000's of people would still apply for it

I am saying the rules of supply and demand are artifically blocked by unions

and when the wages do not reflect reality, the industry was ripe for the competition to come in and take it away from the big 3

Compared to plant manager or computational fluids engineering, plenty of good positions are available and no QUAILIFIED takers

since when did manual labor become a career anyway?

Edited September 5, 2007 by Harry Bennet

[Furious1Auto]

no one doubts that is hard work. However if there was a strike or lock out at an auto company, they could offer $20/hr for the same jobs 1000's of people would still apply for it

I am saying the rules of supply and demand are artifically blocked by unions

and when the wages do not reflect reality, the industry was ripe for the competition to come in and take it away from the big 3

Compared to plant manager or computational fluids engineering, plenty of good positions are available and no QUAILIFIED takers

since when did manual labor become a career anyway?

I missed one unexpected day in a few years and it took 6 people to start my job up, at the end of the night there were still three! I know my job is overloaded but I'm good at it! I doubt that many would be able to handle our workload, and pace! Good luck on replacing us and producing even one defect free unit an hour with scabs that don't know the jobs!

[Trimdingman]

no one doubts that is hard work. However if there was a strike or lock out at an auto company, they could offer $20/hr for the same jobs 1000's of people would still apply for it

I am saying the rules of supply and demand are artifically blocked by unions

and when the wages do not reflect reality, the industry was ripe for the competition to come in and take it away from the big 3

Compared to plant manager or computational fluids engineering, plenty of good positions are available and no QUAILIFIED takers

since when did manual labor become a career anyway?

 

 

Very few people would work on the line very long for $20.00 an hour. If you are even capable, it would take you up to a week before you could work yourself up to speed to do the job by yourself. If 25% of the people don't show up, the line doesn't run. You don't know how hard it is to walk in there sometimes. They have to pay the big bucks. I remember when often the line didn't run on Friday nights because of lack of manpower. Many people used to double back from day shift on Fridays so they could run. I was one of them. If they paid $20.00 an hour, the place would run like shit, and they would lose what they saved paying repairmen overtime, and the customer would get an inferior quality product.

 

When I hired on in 1974, the wages were tops for manufacturing jobs, but the gap wasn't as wide as it is to-day. They needed 300 people. They had to hire over 1000 people to get 300 people to stick. If you are quick with your hands, you can do it without too much problem. If you don't have it, you will injure yourself. If you are shaky, drop screws, you get behind. The line doesn't stop. You start missing things. Stress builds up. You fear that you will not make your 90 days because you can't do it. You quit. To-day, because of the high wages, the company has a larger pool of applicants to choose from. They test them for manual dexterity. People apply themselves more because of the higher wages and do not give up as easily as they did in the past. This leads to a higher quality product, and more disciplined workforce.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Trimdingman