Blueblood Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Just listen to this Q:How many horsepower is this engine going to produce A:Last september i was told 400hp. A:Im not that crazy about the looks of it, Id prefer a more boxy shape. At the same time, Id bet that as round as it's shape is, the fuel economy should be pretty decent. Id still like to see some solid numbers on the engine's hp/torque. If its a 5.7L DOHC, Id say that 400 hp is a VERY realistic predicition. If GM can get 300+ hp out of an OHV 16-valve V8, I see no reason why Toyota cant get 375-400 hp out of a DOHC 32-valve VVT-i V8 Toyota Nation The NASCAR Tundra is running with 650 hp Good Lord the people on that site are morons, they think that thing is going to take over the full size truck market. Well, the same idiots said that when the "innovative" Tundra came out. It still looks like it has the tiny rear end out of the Tacoma! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Because Ford can flex the Expy/Navi and F150 now, speculation is that MTP will go to Expy/Navi/F150 production, and a smaller truck plant (Norfolk) will get closed. At least that's the speculation. Realistically, over time, Ford will lose marketshare in fullsize trucks. They and GM lost marketshare when Dodge finally introduced a modern truck. The question is how fast will they lose it. With the Tundra offering little in the way of incentives to switch, other than the 5 ton tow rating, it looks like Toyota's going to have to butter this thing up with rebates in order to get it to sell. Plus, that frame don't look like it can handle 5 tons. I wonder if Toyota understands that the frame is a HUGE factor in tow ratings. Way more important than the engine and second only to the transmission (or as important as the transmission). If that thing can't haul 5 tons over a washboard gravel road up a steep hill in August, consistently, it's overrated. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Toyota builds a Dodge Ram - wonder if DC will sue. Shades of Lexus cloning M-B back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) Is Ford being run by a bunch of cowardly Gay Pussy's? (broke back mountain type) Thanks for my amusement today. Reminds me of something my little 12 year old brother would say. Well I don't think Ford is going to let this get out of hand, as a matter of fact I know it won't (my lips are sealed). I hate the 4 speed (it likes to play the oh you want me to downshift, well wait a second game all the time) in the F 150, but the 5.4 is not (I repeat NOT) as bad as people make it seem. Keep the engine, fine tune it, hook it up to a 6 speed (or offer a damn diesel) and I bet you most people won't bother to even look at a Tundra. Edited February 10, 2006 by Michael Reynolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Titan sales are nothing to write home about...still haven't broken 100K units with it yet! between the F150 and F250/350, Ford sells each month what the Titan does in a year :lol: Does anyone know if "F-series" sales include the super heavy duty trucks like the F-450 and so on? But then i again I dont expect them to sell 100K or more Super Heavy duty trucks a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 It makes a few points but then says things like this that simply cant be justified F-150 sales are not down Not true. F series sales were down 4% for 2005. Plus, that frame don't look like it can handle 5 tons. I wonder if Toyota understands that the frame is a HUGE factor in tow ratings. Way more important than the engine and second only to the transmission (or as important as the transmission). If that thing can't haul 5 tons over a washboard gravel road up a steep hill in August, consistently, it's overrated. ... That's funny. One glance at a picture and RJ can provide an analysis of the strength of a truck frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss96racing Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 The Toyota truck appears to be a bigger version of their tacoma truck too me, which isn't a bad looking truck. True this new Tundra doesn't bring anything new to the segment just a little needed competition to keep both Ford and GM on their toes. But what bothers me is that back on January 23. Ford made an announcement about closing 2 more unknown assembly plants. One of those plants which was speculated for closer was a Truck Plant. Now after looking at and seeing Toyota's new Tundra. I would like to ask two questions that everyone( at least me) has been wondering and worried about: Will Toyota steal sells from the F-150? Is Ford being run by a bunch of cowardly Gay Pussy's? (broke back mountain type) Ford Truck is suppose to be about TOUGH, but it appeared to me that they were and probably still is worried about much of nothing. It's no wonder Toyota has come so far, it's not about being the best at anything, it's about bluffing the next person into believing that you're bigger than what you appear to be. I find it funny that everyone believes that Toyota has better quailty than the domestic, when we all know that those claims are untrue. The problem is that the Domestic doesn't believe in themselves as a challenger, nor believe that they can continue to be LEADERS at this game. So in saying if Ford is worried about losing shares and sells to the competition which they believe to be one entity. then F' it sell the company. P.S. Toyota will only become bigger if you allow it to. Stop crying and do what you do best, build great F'ckn n F-series Trucks and it wouldn't hurt if you build a few cars too. you know on here I hear a lot of bitching about the 5.4 being underpowered... but from people I know I have heard more dissapointment about the hemi being weaker then expected... I don't have a large demographic of people though because most people i know own powerstroke super dutys. but in my neck of the woods the dodge gets more complaints... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
666COS Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) I am a ford guy and always have been, but i read that it has a 6SPD and 10000LBs towing capacity. ford better get that Lincoln navigator 6spd beefed up and put in. and they need the 6.2 From past experiences with Toyotas and my buddies Tacoma we have found that the dealers have a captive list on certain parts. and they are so expensive. No Napa. Edited February 10, 2006 by 666COS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Have any of you guys actually seen the sales charts? Look at the side of the DetroitNews article: Detroit News - Tundra As you can clearly see GM and Ford hasn't shown any sales decreases since the resurgance of the Ram or the introduction of the Tundra/Titan. Both of these indicate that the Ram, Tundra, and Titan are not impacting Ford and GM at all. The Big 2 have been forced to spend more on production development as the competition heats up, but they've kept their sales. And lets be clear for you power hungry idiots... The HEMI was introduced in 2002. What has been the sales reaction? Flat sales from '02 to '05. Same as Ford and GM... So much for the spec sheets causing a sales impact. What did the heralded "super powered" Nissan Titan do last year? It was 15% short of it's sales goals. Anyway who says the 5.7L Toyota engine is going to outpower everyone else... It's a developement of the 4.7L, which is equal to the 3valve Mod 4.6L (little lower hp, little more torque and less fuel effeciency - 4Runner to Explorer). And to do so the Toyota needs premium fuel, while the Mod engine is rated with regular fuel. That's going to make a difference for those buying these trucks for work. When you have to pay 10% more to fuel up you truck for the prevliage of owning a Toyota. And as I said don't expect a economy advantage. The 4.7L power Sequia has esentially the same mpg as the 5.4L powered Expy, dispite a wieght and displacement advantage. Wait until the Sequia gains weight and has a equal displacement... I'm expecting similar results as the 4Runner and Explorer (Toyota mph down 1 in city and 3 on highway). Yep they're the "green" company :rolleyes: And as far as suspension and frame goes... I Toyota and Nissan are a generation behind the other 3... No hydroforming, c-channel frame that will bend under the load. They sacrified strength for weight and cost... And while F-150 is too heavy you do get the equivelent of a "tank" for you money. That makes a big difference when you're buying for your buissness. This will keep Ford and GM on their toes, but they aren't going to get the 3x sales growth they want (5% to 13% of the segement). The segment is likely to be flat and that would mean them getting 150,000 conquest sales. I just don't see that happening... In fact I think they'll have difficulty moving the 200,000 units they plan for and the new plant will be running very low in effeciency. Even if they make their quata... 200k out of a 300k plant is only 67% effeciency, which if Ford planned such a thing they would be lambased by the industry experts. Toyota has made a mistake in building too much truck capacity in a shrinking market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Seems to me that Ford has an answer to the Horse Power critics for the F-150 and Expedition - the 365 hp 30 valve V10 Why dosen't just offer that motor as an option until the hurricane is ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I have never really understood why the v10 isnt offered in the f150. They have it, use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptschett Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I have never really understood why the v10 isnt offered in the f150. They have it, use it Maybe it just plain doesn't fit. With equal front and rear ends of the engine, the V10 will be a bore spacing longer than the 5.4. That's a perennial question on the Mopar boards I'm on too (usually a little more forceful though, along the lines of "whoever designed the Dakota to not fit the Hemi should be shot".) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Maybe it just plain doesn't fit. With equal front and rear ends of the engine, the V10 will be a bore spacing longer than the 5.4. That's a perennial question on the Mopar boards I'm on too (usually a little more forceful though, along the lines of "whoever designed the Dakota to not fit the Hemi should be shot".) It probably would fit, but the costs associated with the modification and application of that engine in the 150 probably superceed what Ford deems acceptable. It could be that, or flat out CAFE requirements restricting widespread use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 That's funny. One glance at a picture and RJ can provide an analysis of the strength of a truck frame. Yep. Pretty neat, huh? Don't you wish you were that good? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Yep. Pretty neat, huh? Don't you wish you were that good? ... Jack of all trades-- master of none Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swenson88 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Yep. Pretty neat, huh? Don't you wish you were that good? ... Towing 10K lbs used to be 3/4-ton and up work, now Toyota is saying they can do it with a 1/2 ton sporting a C-frame and 5-lug wheels? Titan thought it could do it with a Dana44 rear, look how that worked out. There's a reason the F150 has a gigantic frame, a huge rear axle, and big-ass brakes - towing requires it. You can't just slap a tow-rating on your truck unless it can tow that amount on a regular basis with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Jack of all trades-- master of none Who. Me or you? ... Towing 10K lbs used to be 3/4-ton and up work, now Toyota is saying they can do it with a 1/2 ton sporting a C-frame and 5-lug wheels? Titan thought it could do it with a Dana44 rear, look how that worked out. There's a reason the F150 has a gigantic frame, a huge rear axle, and big-ass brakes - towing requires it. You can't just slap a tow-rating on your truck unless it can tow that amount on a regular basis with no problems. Toyota is about to find that out. And since truck owners that ride their vehicles this rough "discover" engineering problems after the warranty's up (or are flat denied warranty coverage because structural failure and/or weakness are ONLY (:rolleyes:) due to operator error), this will cost Toyota serious credibility. The problem Toyota looks likely to discover is that there testing regimen is just not tough enough. Either that or the testing was rigged to generate the results that management wanted (as in, "This truck has to out tow the F150", "but the frame's not...", "Look, are you going to argue with me? This truck will tow more than the F150", "Fine. Whatever".) ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 The thing looks like the bastard child of a Ford Dodge one-night stand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) Who. Me or you? ... That's an easy question. You of course. Towing 10K lbs used to be 3/4-ton and up work, now Toyota is saying they can do it with a 1/2 ton sporting a C-frame and 5-lug wheels? Titan thought it could do it with a Dana44 rear, look how that worked out. There's a reason the F150 has a gigantic frame, a huge rear axle, and big-ass brakes - towing requires it. You can't just slap a tow-rating on your truck unless it can tow that amount on a regular basis with no problems. Nissan does it. Do you even know what type of axle is in the Toyota or what the brake sizes are? Semi trucks use C-type frames. Edited February 10, 2006 by Bluecon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 That's an easy question. You of course. Hmm. So what are your qualifications to speak out about business management, vehicle design, and marketing? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 its easy but it appears you may have chosen the wrong answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Hmm. So what are your qualifications to speak out about business management, vehicle design, and marketing? ... I was born, raised and educated in South Dakota. In South Dakota we are know everything about the car business. Of course I have never been in a auto plant in my life or worked in the business but I know everything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I was born, raised and educated in South Dakota.In South Dakota we are know everything about the car business. Of course I have never been in a auto plant in my life or worked in the business but I know everything about it. No, you jackass, those are MY qualifications. What are yours? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Hey look where the put the rear shocks. Wonder where they stole idea that from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) No, you jackass, those are MY qualifications. What are yours? ... Qualifications? I wouldn't consider that any kind of qualifications to be an expert on the auto industry. P.S. I don't think the moderator is supposed to swear. Edited February 10, 2006 by Bluecon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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