Like I Said, Jeremy is Full Of It

[Catalepsy]

Western colleges/universities, the government/democracy, and architecture all originated from Rome/Greece.

 

 

I thought English speaking culture was based on England and Frence on Roman.

[RichardJensen]

Western colleges/universities, the government/democracy, and architecture all originated from Rome/Greece.

I did not say 'originated' I said 'derived.'

 

This is what I'm talking about:

 

Bachelor's, Masters, and Doctoral degrees come from Britain.

 

The words 'College' and 'University' while ultimately of Latin origin were first used to describe schools of 'higher learning' in Britain.

 

The cap and gown, the master's hood, and the doctoral stripes are all derived from British academic (and indeed early clerical) garb as well.

 

"matriculation" and "commencement" both come to us directly from Britain. They were not used in this sense in Rome or Greece. Neither were such Latin words as 'alumni', 'alumnae', and 'alma mater.'

 

-----

 

The terms 'bar' and 'lawyer' are thoroughly British in invention and use. The forms and manners of U.S. court systems are almost entirely British in origin, from the black robes to the honorifics to the practice of administering an oath on the Bible, 12 men on a jury, use of a Grand Jury to indict individuals, and so on and so forth.

 

In some states courts presiding over civil matters are still called 'chancery courts', in imitation of the Court of Chancery in Britain.

 

Apart from the use of English, perhaps nothing else bears greater witness to our British heritage than the legal system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

 

-----

 

In politics, while the term 'senate' refers back to the Roman Senate, the concept of popularly elected representatives of a legislative body is a British innovation. The members of the Senate of Rome were not popularly elected, and the citizens of Athens did not select representatives.

 

-----

 

With the matter of architecture, the British took the ideas of Palladio's Four Books of Architecture, and revised them to fit their own native building materials and style, creating a style called Georgian. -This style- is what you see at Monticello, the White House, and in many other landmarks of the early 1800s and late 1700s.

 

I need hardly point out the obvious derivation of so-called 'Collegiate Gothic' architecture from Oxford and Cambridge buildings.

 

-----

 

Quite obviously American institutions and architecture are in no small part traceable back to Roman and Greek ideas. However, there is no escaping the influence the British had on this country. There was no 'starting over from scratch' after independence. Rather, British ideas and architecture were adopted and modified to suit this country.

[BlackHorse]

 

Let us not all forget why we are here, and that is to say that Jeremy Clarkson is a putts. lol

[Edstock]

 

Let us not all forget why we are here, and that is to say that Jeremy Clarkson is a putts. lol

 

Uh, that's PUTZ, not putts.

Edited September 18, 2007 by Edstock

[BlackHorse]

Uh, that's PUTZ, not putts.

 

whatever

[Catalepsy]

If the Americans derived from the British, and British copied from the Romans and the Greeks, I think that's a pretty direct connection. I mean, that's like saying rock music derived from the British without mentioning British took it from Blues & Jazz. History is not about the chapter before but the many chapters before that chapter.

 

That aside, back to the original point...Clarkson is funny and entertaining. Yes, people shouldn't take him seriously, but people do. He's extremely influential. Just as he is allowed to be entertaining, people are allowed to criticize him because of his influence.

 

 

 

 

 

I did not say 'originated' I said 'derived.'

 

This is what I'm talking about:

 

Bachelor's, Masters, and Doctoral degrees come from Britain.

 

The words 'College' and 'University' while ultimately of Latin origin were first used to describe schools of 'higher learning' in Britain.

 

The cap and gown, the master's hood, and the doctoral stripes are all derived from British academic (and indeed early clerical) garb as well.

 

"matriculation" and "commencement" both come to us directly from Britain. They were not used in this sense in Rome or Greece. Neither were such Latin words as 'alumni', 'alumnae', and 'alma mater.'

 

-----

 

The terms 'bar' and 'lawyer' are thoroughly British in invention and use. The forms and manners of U.S. court systems are almost entirely British in origin, from the black robes to the honorifics to the practice of administering an oath on the Bible, 12 men on a jury, use of a Grand Jury to indict individuals, and so on and so forth.

 

In some states courts presiding over civil matters are still called 'chancery courts', in imitation of the Court of Chancery in Britain.

 

Apart from the use of English, perhaps nothing else bears greater witness to our British heritage than the legal system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

 

-----

 

In politics, while the term 'senate' refers back to the Roman Senate, the concept of popularly elected representatives of a legislative body is a British innovation. The members of the Senate of Rome were not popularly elected, and the citizens of Athens did not select representatives.

 

-----

 

With the matter of architecture, the British took the ideas of Palladio's Four Books of Architecture, and revised them to fit their own native building materials and style, creating a style called Georgian. -This style- is what you see at Monticello, the White House, and in many other landmarks of the early 1800s and late 1700s.

 

I need hardly point out the obvious derivation of so-called 'Collegiate Gothic' architecture from Oxford and Cambridge buildings.

 

-----

 

Quite obviously American institutions and architecture are in no small part traceable back to Roman and Greek ideas. However, there is no escaping the influence the British had on this country. There was no 'starting over from scratch' after independence. Rather, British ideas and architecture were adopted and modified to suit this country.

[RichardJensen]

If the Americans derived from the British, and British copied from the Romans and the Greeks, I think that's a pretty direct connection.

Not necessarily. Things like graduate and undergraduate education, common law, and separate judge and jury have -no- Greek or Roman antecedent.

[suv_guy_19]

Not necessarily. Things like graduate and undergraduate education, common law, and separate judge and jury have -no- Greek or Roman antecedent.

 

 

I was going to mention common law. I know that most of Canada uses Common law, but Quebec uses a variation of Roman law. That was what made me think you were right. I believe that things derived from Britain have less to do with Rome.

Edited September 19, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[RichardJensen]

I wonder if Quebec uses a variation of the Napoleonic Code. I suppose I could find out, but why?

[suv_guy_19]

I wonder if Quebec uses a variation of the Napoleonic Code. I suppose I could find out, but why?

 

 

It probably is. I don't care to check either. It's just something I remember hearing once.

Edited September 19, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[630land]

While Top Gear may call the Stang motor 'rubbish', the #1 car brand in the UK is still Ford.

 

And, there is virtually no British owned car industry, too.

[jpd80]

I wonder if Quebec uses a variation of the Napoleonic Code. I suppose I could find out, but why?

Apparently it does and so does Louisanna!

[White99GT]

Regardless of the gas mileage claims of various years of mustangs I think most of us can agree that Clarkson is in fact extremely biased against American cars, even Richard. I'm fully aware that the 260 hp 4.6 liter engine in the Mustang was not as powerful as the amped up 4.6 liter engine in the Itallian car. Hell look what Koneigsagg did with that motor right? Regardless, he's on and on about about how its rubbish because its made of volcanic rock and pig iron and produces lots of CO2. His first words about it? "it's a terrible motor". But gee golly suddenly when you put the volcanic pig iron motor in the Itiallian car its one of the worlds great engines.

 

I mean I agree, the 4.6 is a fantastic engine, but Jeremy Clarkson my friends, is a biased volcanic pig.

 

Clarkson is a sensationalist and very biased, you'll get no argument from me there, but he is occasionally funny.

 

I'll never forget his review of the Ford Lightning. He panned the interior fit and finish and when the camera went over the dash it was obvious someone at Top Gear consciously made the dash look bad. They pried up on a piece of vinyl trim that sits above the passenger side airbag, the the cigarette lighter cover partially opened, and the cupholder was partially opened. If you're going to trash the interior, at least show it without sabotaging it.

[ANTAUS]

Hmmm, I think some people are getting a bit bent out of shape on this. All this is, is someones opinion, and nothing more. We've dealt with these "lists" before...

[BlackHorse]

Hmmm, I think some people are getting a bit bent out of shape on this. All this is, is someones opinion, and nothing more. We've dealt with these "lists" before...

 

We've dealt with every topic on these forums over and over again, not just this one. So let's not single one out and pretend like it's alone in the "we've discussed it before" section. I could create a thread called "Mondeo" and put nothing in the post and I can pretty much promise you where it's going to go from there. The same protracted argument we see everytime the Mondeo is mentioned here.

[goingincirclez]

I'm mildly in the Clarkson fan camp, if only because he's entertaining and in your face. The man is genuinely funny, and even self-effacing at times. And he makes no bones about being biased - it's pretty well on the table. So the opinions can be taken at face value for what they're worth: nothing more than the opinion of a Queen's Snob.

 

 

OTOH, the reviews of the Mustang were overall very positive. "Sounds like God... Shouting" is the best line ever spoken about any car, ever. The Ford GT is another positive one. The Focus ST got raves of course but that's a euro Ford. regarding non-Fords, he gushed over the 300C (until he drove it, LOL). But if you think he trashes American cars badly, you haven't seen them test Asian ones.

 

The lightning segment was biased yet appropriate, since a drag-truck is wholly stupid. And at the end of the day, what does a "built by Bob and Ken" badge really do for the vehicle? I agree the RHD converter should have been more culpable, but Ford should have some say over who does that anyway.

 

What's the point of a truck? Given the choice between a no-nonsense, "get it done" truck, and a poorly-adapted, silly-fast-to-the-edge-of-pointless-in-this-market one, which should win?

[BlackHorse]

I agree that he's damned funny. The whole cast is pretty funny in fact, that's part of what makes the show so successful. I think as long as we can all agree that Clarkson is extremely biased and as such we really can't take any review the man gives about any product seriously then all is well by me. lol I've seen the review he gave on the 350Z and he pretty well slammed it. But of course in the process of slamming it he pointed out how it was American designed in California. So it was like "yeah I'm slamming the Nissan which is not an American car, but I'm slamming it because in fact it is an American car." lol On the other hand, he seemed to have nothing but praise for the Toyota truck that wouldn't die, although that was pretty impressive.

 

I'd love to see an American version of this Top Gear show. Heck we could even make it complete with some guy who bashes every european product that gets reviewed. We'll give that job to White99GT, he's good at that eurobashing stuff. At the end of the season our guy and Clarkson can have a sock fight or something.

[White99GT]

I'd love to see an American version of this Top Gear show. Heck we could even make it complete with some guy who bashes every european product that gets reviewed. We'll give that job to White99GT, he's good at that eurobashing stuff. At the end of the season our guy and Clarkson can have a sock fight or something.

 

I love the new Euro Fords, I hope "kinetic design" and the current FoE interiors come to the states. I just bash people who think the previous Mondeo interior is God's gift but try to portray the current Fusion interior as complete crap. They are damn near the same.

 

Clarkson is 6'5", he's got two inches on me. I'm way younger though, I think I could take him.

Edited September 20, 2007 by White99GT

[SVT_MAN]

There a heeeeeyouuge difference between a 190-205 horsepower NPI 4.6L 2V that was in the early 90's Crown Vics and TBirds and the 260hp 2V in the 99 Mustang GT. The difference between a 190 hp NPI 2V and a 390 hp (more like 420) s/c 4V is astronomical.

 

When my GT was new and stock, it would get 27 mpg on the interstate at 70 - 75 mph. Not quite 30. My 95 4.6L TBird with 3.08s would pull off 30 on the interstate though.

 

My Mustang is stock minus a K&N filter kit. Speedlimits around my area in Wisconsin are between 55-65 mph. I never go above 70 on the freeway (unless I absolutely NEED to pass). On a long trip up to the Wisconsin Dells, I averaged 30 mpg. This was an ISOLATED condition. When I drive to school, which includes both highway and city driving, I average anywhere from 21mpg to 25 mpg. It depends on my driving style.

 

The Mustang isn't what you'd call a fuel sipper, but you know what? It's more fuel economical than my 95 Mercury Sable which has 145 hp and has around the same curb weight! The 4.6L SOHC is a GREAT engine, and it's very fuel efficient for its size!

 

It sort of irritates that me people are saying it's impossible. It's not. I filled my tank in Delafiled, drove conservatively all the way up to the Dells, and filled up in the dells. I averaged 30 mpg. It's NOT impossible. The Mustang is spinning less than 2000 rpm at 65 mph. (I have a 5 spd manual, makes a huge improvement over the automatic.)

 

Clarkson owns a Ford GT. About as 'American' a car as you can get.

 

If he's biased he's got an odd way of showing it.

 

He's just addicted to the sound of his own voice.

 

 

Yes, he does own a Ford GT. But, Ford GTs are not as American as you get. (Or at least their heritage isn't - and that is what Clarkson is particularly fond of ..) What many people forget is that the GT-40 was designed after Eric Broadley's English Lola prototype. So, really, it was an English car with an American motor. Sound familiar? See Carroll Shelby ..

Edited September 20, 2007 by SVT_MAN

[RichardJensen]

Original GT prototype:

 

 

Eric Broadley's Lola GT Mk 6

 

 

The 'all conquering' Mk IV GT40

 

 

This was the first -modern- prototype sports car. It was designed with substantial wind tunnel work, and if you can find a single part, or a single design or a single anything that came from Lola, you're ---lying----.

 

The British roots of the Ford GT program can be quite easily overstated. Especially since it won with Detroit iron, and in 1966 primarily with U.S. drivers.

[RichardJensen]

There have been three improvements to the Mk IV design:

 

Better ground effects

Rear spoilers

Airflow channeled around the cockpit.

 

 

The greatest innovation of the MK IV was the decision to engineer every part for maximum durability, as opposed to minimum weight.

 

A secondary innovation was the design of easily replaceable sub units (such as the rear suspension). This was, IIRC, done with substantial input from the Wood Brothers, who crewed Ford's factory team.

 

Looking at the MK IV vs. today's prototypes, the similarities are far more striking than prototypes of even the year before, let alone 1966 F1 and Indy cars, or (obviously) 1966 stock cars, vs. those formulas today.

 

And, in looking at the heritage of the GT 40 and the GT, two things become quite clear: This was a program that was done primarily for the benefit of Ford Europe, and it was done under the oversight of Walter Hayes (one of the best execs Ford has ever, or will ever have). This was predominantly an American effort.

Edited September 21, 2007 by RichardJensen

[BlackHorse]

Great history lesson guys.

 

Clarkson still sucks. lol

[Ford Jellymoulds]

For anybody interested in a brief history of the Ford GT40.

 

http://www.muscularmustangs.com/gt401.php

[Edstock]

Superformance still makes 'em:

 

 

Their GT40 MK 2 (big-block) tub is 90% or so identical to the original.

 

http://www.superformance.com/home.aspx

[RichardJensen]

But that's not the MK IV. The truly revolutionary GT40, and the first one to win Le Mans.