silvrsvt Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Dearborn doesn't make RWD cars, they make F-150's. I think you mean Flat Rock (Mustang). Anyone if the rumors about the Mustang leaving Flat Rock are worth anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Anyone if the rumors about the Mustang leaving Flat Rock are worth anything? It wouldn't surprise me at all. It would certainly make sense if the Mustang moves to a common architecture with other vehicles. Flat Rock doesn't really have the capacity to allow more than the Mustang/Mazda6 to roll out, so it could be considered a waste to retool there for Huntsman and have it be the only vehicle built there that uses the platform. Not to mention Mazda is looking for more NA production somewhere. Flat Rock would be as good a place as any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 IIf a LWB Huntsman is developed to replace the Panthers, it can share much more of the framing and construction techniques for Flex manufacturing. If Ford elects to keep the large cars on BOF, The Panthers will receive most of the benefits without sacrificing their BOF constructiuon. The FoA CB IRS is a bolt in structure that weighs the same as a SRA but has the added advantage of enabling handling and ride quality to be tuned separately. Assuming the "huntsman is at least 79" ( 2006.6mm ) wide, around 215" ( 5461mm ) long and BOF, you'd get the "panther mafias" blessing ( as opposed to "blasting" ) on this. Now this IRS unit of yours also gets the nod, provided it uses active pressure lubrication of the differential and wheel bearings. You need to realize that pretty near bullet proof designs are mandatory on the "panther" platform. No room for screwups and sadsack excuses at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Assuming the "huntsman is at least 79" ( 2006.6mm ) wide, around 215" ( 5461mm ) long and BOF, you'd get the "panther mafias" blessing ( as opposed to "blasting" ) on this. Now this IRS unit of yours also gets the nod, provided it uses active pressure lubrication of the differential and wheel bearings. You need to realize that pretty near bullet proof designs are mandatory on the "panther" platform. Huh? The thing has already done near on 6 years fleet service already. Most taxis put well over 500,000 klm (300,000) miles on their rear axles, engines and auto transmissions. No room for screwups and sadsack excuses at all. I think You should be talking to Ford North America about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Huh?The thing has already done near on 6 years fleet service already. Most taxis put well over 500,000 klm (300,000) miles on their rear axles, engines and auto transmissions. I think You should be talking to Ford North America about that. I think he should be talking to someone about something, I'm just not sure if it has anything to do with cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Huh?The thing has already done near on 6 years fleet service already. Most taxis put well over 500,000 klm (300,000) miles on their rear axles, engines and auto transmissions. I think You should be talking to Ford North America about that. You'd be very surprised at how effectively NA drivers can trash an otherwise good package. :shades: Once you increase the track width on that existing design, it may not be quite the package it is in its current rendition. Is it in the 64" ( 1625.6mm ) to 68" ( 1727.2 mm ) range right now? Does it regularly handle 4500+lbs ( weight of car and 2+ pass. )? Has it done all this in +120F to -40F temps? It might be all you say right now, or the necessary mods might mess it up completely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 You'd be very surprised at how effectively NA drivers can trash an otherwise good package. :shades: Once you increase the track width on that existing design, it may not be quite the package it is in its current rendition. Is it in the 64" ( 1625.6mm ) to 68" ( 1727.2 mm ) range right now? Does it regularly handle 4500+lbs ( weight of car and 2+ pass. )? Has it done all this in +120F to -40F temps? It might be all you say right now, or the necessary mods might mess it up completely... What the heck does temperature have to do with the platform? It's not like the steel is going to melt at a lower temperature in Australia than it will in the US. That's all drivetrain stuff...and all of that stuff can easily be made to be market-specific. So that criteria right there can be 100% eliminated from the equation. I don't see the weight issue to be a problem either. And we all know the size is rather comparable...and could, again, be adapted to be market-specific -- especially if there is going to be a separate dedicated Huntsman plant in NA. Now that I think about it, there's not a single argument around for keeping the Panther over Huntsman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 What the heck does temperature have to do with the platform? Hmmm... MD is a long way from Alaska in more than one way you know. Steel may survive, bearings and gears have been know to get very unhappy in -40F conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Hmmm... MD is a long way from Alaska in more than one way you know. Steel may survive, bearings and gears have been know to get very unhappy in -40F conditions. And somehow the bearings and gears used in Panthers are more magically resistant to temperature change than those in other automobiles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 You'd be very surprised at how effectively NA drivers can trash an otherwise good package. :shades: Once you increase the track width on that existing design, it may not be quite the package it is in its current rendition. Is it in the 64" ( 1625.6mm ) to 68" ( 1727.2 mm ) range right now? Does it regularly handle 4500+lbs ( weight of car and 2+ pass. )? Has it done all this in +120F to -40F temps? It might be all you say right now, or the necessary mods might mess it up completely... You could be right, I'm not an insider and don't have the data to satisfy your analytical mind. All I have to say is Ford has had access to this IRS package since 2002 and we get a lot of support testing done in the USA. I f North America is looking at it what does that tell you in terms of your questions? Panthers use old "fat doors technology" but internally the Falcon is the same width as the Panthers. Our CUV Territory has the same IRS and is over 2100 kg unladen (4600 lb). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) Pointing out problems like no one in Ford's PD have thought about them, don't you think is a little conceited? Kuzack said the 2008 Orion Falcon is available to the North American division if they want it. Edited October 16, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 And somehow the bearings and gears used in Panthers are more magically resistant to temperature change than those in other automobiles? You may recall, the SRA in a "panther"? Bearings and gears are immersed in oil??? :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Panthers use old "fat doors technology" but internally the Falcon is the same width as the Panthers.Our CUV Territory has the same IRS and is over 2100 kg unladen (4600 lb). Hey hands off the "fat doors"! Seriously, those doors are very effective life savers. The "panthers" were for many years the safest thing out there even without airbags. All that "overhang" and "fat doors" stuff is seriously desirable stuff among the "mafiosi". Trust me we know where the QANTAS counter is... Pointing out problems like no one in Ford's PD have thought about them, don't you think is a little conceited? Not so much a matter of conceit as a matter of "lobbying" for new features. And you might be surprised at how little time upper levels of management can have when things are as dicey as they are these days at Ford. Concern for ones continued employment tends to blind otherwise good people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Hey hands off the "fat doors"! Seriously, those doors are very effective life savers. The "panthers" were for many years the safest thing out there even without airbags. All that "overhang" and "fat doors" stuff is seriously desirable stuff among the "mafiosi". Trust me we know where the QANTAS counter is... Not so much a matter of conceit as a matter of "lobbying" for new features. And you might be surprised at how little time upper levels of management can have when things are as dicey as they are these days at Ford. Concern for ones continued employment tends to blind otherwise good people. Good to see you havent lost your sense of humor old son. We're all allowed to be biased on here, good to see supportive defense for the Crown Victoria! RWD can be resolved a couple of ways, just not sure which way Ford will jump with only three RWD plants involved. I think the very least they should do is share electricals, powertrains and suspensions. Either way, we're getting some seriously new products in the next couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 John, trust me. You don't want Ford to give Australia the Panthers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 You may recall, the SRA in a "panther"? Bearings and gears are immersed in oil??? :reading: When did they stop using oil in the differentials of independent rear suspensions? I must have missed the memo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 John, trust me. You don't want Ford to give Australia the Panthers. Sure he does! "Panthers" are th only things that can stand up to "road trains". :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Sure he does! "Panthers" are th only things that can stand up to "road trains". :shades: I thought they were the road trains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Good to see you havent lost your sense of humor old son. I think the very least they should do is share electricals, powertrains and suspensions. Shared components? Total agreement there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Anyone if the rumors about the Mustang leaving Flat Rock are worth anything? I don't think ford or Mazda would like to continue the production process at AAI. having 2 separate body shops and shared assembly lines building 2 different vehicle architectures, is not the preferred way to build cars. I can see one full plant (3 crew ~325,000) for the mustang, explorer, and sedans. with Chicago being the over flow hedging against the GRWD vehicles cannibalizing the Taurus..es. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgun Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think the point has been made that for not much money, you could continue to get decent sales numbers out of a very profitable platform. Again, my 07 Sport averages close to 23 mpg in mixed driving. It is a helol of a value for what you get. And its bullet proof. And its built in a plant with a good build rep that is drastically underutilized right now- underutilaztion means sunk costs or put another way, production for a few incremental dollars. My hope is this new guy from Yoda will look around and see what can be done in the short term to bolster the numbers. the Panther is one platform for sure and so is the Ranger. And speaking of that, given Yoda's success with the Tacoma lets hope he sees that its time to get the Ranger and Twin Cities working again. Remember it wasn't that long ago that Ranger was oe of the top 10 i sales figures. Hang in there Bob ,change is a coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) Sure he does! "Panthers" are th only things that can stand up to "road trains". :shades: I think you Americans would call this a 62 wheeler. Edited October 17, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think you Americans would call this a 62 wheeler. I don't think they allow things like that here...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think you Americans would call this a 62 wheeler. Actually we'd call that a fire hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 They still sit on 100 kph!! A lot of the road trains up the centre of Australia have stopped due to Adelaide to Darwin Inland Railway line. Most roads permit smaller versions called B Doubles (30"+40") and some A-Doubles (2x40") further west. Oncoming cattle trucks are scarry on dirt roads, you just get completely off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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