Ford abandons export plans for new Falcon

[jpd80]

Ford abandons export plans for new Falcon - LINK

 

Ford Australia has abandoned plans to export the next-generation Falcon that’s due in early 2008.

 

Instead, Ford will focus its export ambitions on the Focus small car after it goes into production here in 2011.

 

Federal and Victorian state government investment of $100 million into the new Falcon’s left-hand-drive program has been transferred to assisting Ford Australia’s Focus production plans.

 

In July local Focus production was confirmed and at least week’s Mondeo media launch Gorman revealed that had come in preference to Falcon exports. The ‘Orion’ Falcon goes on-sale April 2008.

 

“That money we got from government for left-hand-drive [Falcons] has been applied to the Focus program so there is no more money,” said Gorman.

 

The next big decisions regarding Ford’s global rear-wheel-drive development and manufacturing structure are in the process of being resolved by Ford in the USA. The next all-new Falcon will appear around 2012-213 and will be based on a global architecture.

 

How much influence Ford Australia will have over this architecture and the implications it will have for future Falcons is unclear, even to Gorman.

 

“We do not have an answer yet,” said Gorman. “But the more integrated we get back into mother-Ford then the more opportunity we have to then have a bigger seat at the table when it comes to talking about global rear-wheel drive.

 

“People from the outside assume there is a grand plan here. Sometime there is, sometime there isn’t. But the timing on the next-generation rear-wheel-drive product isn’t that critical that everything gets decided tomorrow. But what is more important is we have a seat at the table.”

 

Americans just don't get it - The Falcon is Ford Australia, and if they screw this up,

Ford is finished in Australia

[armadamaster]

Ford abandons export plans for new Falcon - LINK

Americans just don't get it - The Falcon is Ford Australia, and if they screw this up,

Ford is finished in Australia

 

More Panthers please. :happy feet:

[Surgen]

With the significantly lower large car volumes in Australia - I can't see how Ford of Australia could 'go-it-alone' on Falcon much longer.

 

The scale just doesn't seem to be there.

[wescoent]

With the significantly lower large car volumes in Australia - I can't see how Ford of Australia could 'go-it-alone' on Falcon much longer.

 

The scale just doesn't seem to be there.

 

With global RWD, it doesn't matter how small Falcon volume gets, since the costs will be shared by Ford across the world.

 

This further leads me to believe a moderate Panther refresh is on the way, given the car's popularity in the Middle East, and that the current model certainly couldn't sell as-is until its replacement in 2012-2013.

[LSFan00]

This at least buys the Falcon 4 more years of F NA fuglification. F Aus should realize about now that the power brokers at F NA want nothing to do with bringing in superior vehicles neither designed nor produced under their esteemed 'prowess.' Long live the CV, Tbird, Ranger, Taurus, Escort, Windstar, and Fusion!

[NickF1011]

With global RWD, it doesn't matter how small Falcon volume gets, since the costs will be shared by Ford across the world.

 

This further leads me to believe a moderate Panther refresh is on the way, given the car's popularity in the Middle East, and that the current model certainly couldn't sell as-is until its replacement in 2012-2013.

 

 

The current Panthers couldn't sell as-is in 2001. That hasn't stopped them from ignoring it since then still. They aren't going to get crap. It will have the same tired interior and exterior styling until it dies. The only change it will likely see is getting the 4.6 3-valve since Ford is likely wasting money casting 2-valve heads for one vehicle line.

[igor]

This simply means that they will not IMPORT the Orion to US and Middle East ..

 

They will wait until they are built in the US and then export them worldwide.

 

we shalll see how it pans out. AFAIK the US import of Orion was never seriously considered - only ME import and that is a shame to not happen.

 

Igor

[rkisler]

Ford abandons export plans for new Falcon - LINK

Americans just don't get it - The Falcon is Ford Australia, and if they screw this up,

Ford is finished in Australia

 

jpd80,

 

Well, we've been down this road a couple of times before, and the result has unfortunately always the same. If NA is not in the product plan, then it's hard to justify the investment for left hand drive. And the Panther keeps getting in the way in the Middle East. I'm disapponted that the LHD program wasn't done anyway in prep for next gen. Just as I was disappointed when Geelong didn't get an increment of 3.5l capacity.

 

But I do think that Tom Gorman is probably doing the best he can under the circumstances.

 

Next gen Huntsman won't be a piece of cake. First, volumes in Australia for RWD cars and their derivatives have been declining.

 

Second the product lineup in NA is questionable. From Tom Gorman's comments, it looks like Ford keeps changing their mind over what, if any, need NA has for a RWD platform. I have the same problem. Mustang is certainly a candidate, but the need for a RWD sedan isn't clear, even when the Panthers get put to sleep. The demand for traditional large American cars is sinking, and I can imagine that investing in a CV sized replacement might not be justified. So if Taurus is about as large as you want to get with a car, then the RWD would have to be able to "kill" the D3 from a financial and customer standpoint -- not easy as the Taurus is already in place in an existing assembly plant. Of course, Territory-like vehicles could be considered which could change the equation. But it sounds like there is still lots of churning on alternatives. There isn't much time left. Ford needs to settle on a firm plan (including derivatives) around 4 years before Job 1 to ensure proper program execution.

 

Third, there seems to be a misconception by some about the benefits of economies of scale for common components. It is true that you can save a significant amount of engineering effort by holding common components across a number of vehicles as FoA has certainly demonstrated. But achieving economies of scale between a plant in Australia and one in NA is difficult. Australia's volumes are not so high, shipping costs are quite high and many major components (such as a rear suspension assembly) are assembled in modules by suppliers and would be prohibitively expensive to ship. Don't forget that any plant in the US could be a thousand miles or more inland from a port. So having a common RWD product produced in Oz and NA is a good thing, but not as good as some might think. And given the higher population and potential volume in NA, many of the parts might be going from the US to Australia which could put pressure on Australia suppliers.

[ANTAUS]

Well let's think of it in a positive way, maybe they are saying Falcon WON'T be exported BECAUSE, NA will have their own plants producing it....

 

Could that be it ?

 

Although it's very disappointing that they actually admit they don't have a plan... I mean, do we also need to hire Toyota's spin director too ?

[NickF1011]

Well let's think of it in a positive way, maybe they are saying Falcon WON'T be exported BECAUSE, NA will have their own plants producing it....

 

Could that be it ?

 

Although it's very disappointing that they actually admit they don't have a plan... I mean, do we also need to hire Toyota's spin director too ?

 

As was said in the article, it's early enough that they don't NEED a plan all spelled out right now. 2012-2013 is a pretty long ways off. The fact that they are grinding away to get the right plan NOW indicates that the solution they come up with will probably be a pretty good one.

 

Of course, with the timeframes mentioned in this article, it appears that we're 1) going to be stuck with D2C longer than predicted for the Mustang and 2) going to be left without an immediate replacement for the Panthers when they are likely finally put to sleep around 2011.

[jpd80]

Thanks for your post guys,

I must ad mit when I started the thread I was angry and disappointed with FoA but

cool logic dictates the planned Focus production probably suits our needs much better.

 

At the moment sales of falcon are artificially low as the style of the BA-BF is now really dated

and Orion for most critics was held up for a year. That said, I believe the next Falcon will be

their best effort yet and maybe FoA's admission to future discussions on GRWD is the best

that can be hoped for.

As Austin suggests, it may be even better for FoA to switch to C2 Focus and EUCD, handing

GRWD back to North America. That's probably where discussions rest at the moment,

best utilisation of product. Who knows, if the next Falcon really takes off and sells gang busters,

Broadmeadows may be back in the hunt for a future Falcon.

 

As for a Fairlane replacement next year, maybe FoA goes with a Taurus SEL or maybe not.

I don't think Crown Victoria is on the radar as Holden's Stateman and Caprice are just too good.

 

I am not convinced that the North American is as organised as Alan Mulally and Mark Fields pretend,

they are still in rescue mode and not really looking further a field. Ford are fence sitting with GRWD, actually gambling that GM has made a huge mistake with Zeta and over read the market.

 

Only time will tell.

Cheers all,

 

John

Edited October 22, 2007 by jpd80

[SysEng]

I don't think Crown Victoria is on the radar as Holden's Stateman and Caprice are just too good.

 

I am not convinced that the North American is as organised as Alan Mulally and Mark Fields pretend,

 

Well John, From what I have seen of my new '07 GM-LS, I think it might have more legs in

Australia than you give it credit for. As a niche market, "panthers" are found in some pretty

extraordinary places. Oz wouldn't be that big a jump.

 

As for Mulally/Fields, they are in fire fighting mode, so I'm not sure what to expect

of them. But simple logic would certainly dictate something like this;

 

 

1)

 

Make the 4VDOHC4.6L standard on all vehicles that can take it. Thats Mustang,

"panthers", SUVs and F-series trucks. Reason? Economy of scale pure and simple

 

Specification? DOHC 4V, 9.0:1 compression, COPS, E85 injectors and aim for

275HP / 300#Torque.

 

2)

 

Make the new 6R80 standard on all RWD platforms and eliminate all other

RWD trannies except for possibly a 6R110 and 6R140. Reason? Again,

economy of scale. The 6R80 will easily handle the 4V4.6 per SysEng

specs and fits everywhere the current 4R75 will fit... thats pretty much

everywhere.

 

Items 1 and 2 speak to Legendary Ford Reliability... directly!

 

3)

 

Make IRS standard on all RWD platforms. In this case it would also be wise

to add full pressure lube to all diffs and wheel bearings, from the diff reservoirs.

Your Aussie plug in unit "might " work as a baseline, but I'd be looking for Expedition

class IRS upgraded with full pressure lube and fitted to the F150 as well.

Reason? You got it... economy of scale. Oh, and the Expedition IRS is pretty

solid. If the frame mounts matched the "panthers" that would be a total market

of well over a million units!

 

4)

 

As per you suggestion Make a standard electrical system for all products.

That means standard quartz ( sorry HID lovers ) 4lamp headlamps,

dual parking/turn lamps, standard driving/fog lamps ( 40W ) that also double as DRLs,

and standard turn illumination lamps ( as per the GM_LS ) all this up front. Standard 6 lamp

rears, dual backup lamps, and dual high rear brake lamps. Inside, Ford

needs a corporate HVAC unit and an upscale electronic HVAC unit mounted

in a 2DIN slot, as well as at most 3 2DIN corporate radios. Maybe a 2DIN

NAV system if they can find VFD or LED/DLP displays that are reliable.

Standard 200Amp alternators. And yes the logic is obvious...

 

ECONOMY of SCALE!

 

Oh, and I really think a "glass cockpit" ( i.e. those VFD or LED/DLP

displays ) for the entire dash would be very cool. :shades:

 

I could go on, but I'll stick to lobbying for things I'd like to

see. I'm pretty sure most Ford engineers are bright enough

to finish this post without me spelling it all out.

[NickF1011]

Oh geez. Like Ford is going to start exporting the Panthers to NEW markets. It's barely alive in the markets its already in.

[CurtisH]

Make the 4VDOHC4.6L standard on all vehicles that can take it. Thats Mustang,

"panthers", SUVs and F-series trucks. Reason? Economy of scale pure and simple

 

Specification? DOHC 4V, 9.0:1 compression, COPS, E85 injectors and aim for

275HP / 300#Torque.

You "might" make a case for that engine and those specs in the other vehicles, there is no point in putting that in a Mustang. If you want to add the complexity and weight of the 4 valve heads, it will have to have more power than the current 3 valve engine.

 

Sorry. I know this comment was off-topic.

 

I'd really like to see a smaller version of the Falcon here. Maybe something around the size of the BMW 3 Series. That could be my next car. Of course, I plan to keep my Mustang another 6 or 7 years, so I can be patient.

Edited October 22, 2007 by CurtisH

[rkisler]

You "might" make a case for that engine and those specs in the other vehicles, there is no point in putting that in a Mustang. If you want to add the complexity and weight of the 4 valve heads, it will have to have more power than the current 3 valve engine.

 

Sorry. I know this comment was off-topic.

 

I'd really like to see a smaller version of the Falcon here. Maybe something around the size of the BMW 3 Series. That could be my next car. Of course, I plan to keep my Mustang another 6 or 7 years, so I can be patient.

 

Some comments:

 

Falcon or GWRD can never be a 3 series. There is a very good reason why manufacturers dedicate a separate platform for this type of car. You can't just shrink a larger car as you end up carrying too much weight. Narrowing and shortening the structure is so difficult that you're better off starting from scratch. Ford doesn't have the platform to make a 3-series. GM, on the other hand, is initating work on one.

 

SysEng, can I assume your post was in jest? There is no way the Panther is going to Australia. And your ideas don't help unfortunately. There is no common 4v 4.6 in Ford. There is no 6 speed that fits into Panther without a significant tearup. There is no common IRS that would work with a BOF and unibody. Panther is on its last legs, and should be given a respectful memorial service and burial.

[rkisler]

Thanks for your post guys,

I must ad mit when I started the thread I was angry and disappointed with FoA but

cool logic dictates the planned Focus production probably suits our needs much better.

 

At the moment sales of falcon are artificially low as the style of the BA-BF is now really dated

and Orion for most critics was held up for a year. That said, I believe the next Falcon will be

their best effort yet and maybe FoA's admission to future discussions on GRWD is the best

that can be hoped for.

As Austin suggests, it may be even better for FoA to switch to C2 Focus and EUCD, handing

GRWD back to North America. That's probably where discussions rest at the moment,

best utilisation of product. Who knows, if the next Falcon really takes off and sells gang busters,

Broadmeadows may be back in the hunt for a future Falcon.

 

As for a Fairlane replacement next year, maybe FoA goes with a Taurus SEL or maybe not.

I don't think Crown Victoria is on the radar as Holden's Stateman and Caprice are just too good.

 

I am not convinced that the North American is as organised as Alan Mulally and Mark Fields pretend,

they are still in rescue mode and not really looking further a field. Ford are fence sitting with GRWD, actually gambling that GM has made a huge mistake with Zeta and over read the market.

 

Only time will tell.

Cheers all,

 

John

 

I've been thinking about this for a bit. How's this for a Ford logic flow?:

 

1. LHD Falcon would require additional investment

2. There is no intention to send Orion to NA; LHD would be for Middle East only

3. Since the Panther is being sold in ME now, Falcon would just substitute for volume that Ford is already selling

4. The volume in ME is not significant (less than 10k?? -- not sure)

5. A decision will have to be made by 2012 when Panther goes down and Mustang and Falcon are due for a redo. One of 2 things will happen

5a. There will be a new GRWD platform. If this platform is developed, RHD/LHD will be included in the base platform enineering, or

5b. If GRWD falls apart, LHD could be added to Orion redo to take the place of Panther in ME

6. In the meantime, to better utilize Broadmeadows, local assembly of C2/EUCD? would provide a better opportunity, particularly as the level of governmental support stays the same.

 

Sound right?

[TomServo92]

Nevermind...

Edited October 23, 2007 by TomServo92

[jpd80]

All good points and good reason why Ford shouldn't rush any future RWD platform.The Zeta looks like a really good platform,

flexible enough to cover from a 183" Camaro to a 202" Buick Park Avenue, the sting in the tail is the weight penalty and width constraints.

 

If you pick the width you want, and build to that the various chassis lengths fall into place.

 

While not a straight bolt in to a Panther, it looks like it would go close:

 

[GT40 2]

So Ford USA is getting a new RWD car when?

[jpd80]

So Ford USA is getting a new RWD car when?

Looking like YM 2012 or 2013.

Like Austin figures,

- Orion Falcon cycle completed

- Mustang D2C cycle finished

- Panther = the ghost that walks, the man who cannot die!!

[Surgen]

Third, there seems to be a misconception by some about the benefits of economies of scale for common components. It is true that you can save a significant amount of engineering effort by holding common components across a number of vehicles as FoA has certainly demonstrated. But achieving economies of scale between a plant in Australia and one in NA is difficult. Australia's volumes are not so high, shipping costs are quite high and many major components (such as a rear suspension assembly) are assembled in modules by suppliers and would be prohibitively expensive to ship. Don't forget that any plant in the US could be a thousand miles or more inland from a port. So having a common RWD product produced in Oz and NA is a good thing, but not as good as some might think. And given the higher population and potential volume in NA, many of the parts might be going from the US to Australia which could put pressure on Australia suppliers.

 

The economies of scale could be achieved by producing in one assembly plant (you're assuming they need to make the product in two assembly plants). By producing in a low cost assembly source (Mexico, South America or Asia), or even one of the NA plants that currently doesn't have a future product - you could import the vehicle into Australia. Scale savings (primarily vendor tooling) are probably enough to offset the freight. Does Australia even have an import duty on cars any more?

[jpd80]

Does Australia even have an import duty on cars any more?

No and we have a FTA with the US anyway.

Maybe you could devote only one factory to RWDs like Mustang "Falcon" Sedan and LWB "Fairlane" sedan

Total numbers including exports would run close to 350,000/ year.

Now that you could justify.

 

 

 

As Austin says, derivatives usually share 40-50% parts max.

Edited October 23, 2007 by jpd80

[SysEng]

SysEng, can I assume your post was in jest? There is no way the Panther is going to Australia. And your ideas don't help unfortunately. There is no common 4v 4.6 in Ford. There is no 6 speed that fits into Panther without a significant tearup. There is no common IRS that would work with a BOF and unibody.

 

Your info is out of date.

 

The 6R75/6R80 at Livonia is a physical match for the 4R75 currently in the "panthers".

 

The call for 4V4.6 is too resolve a number of manufacturing inefficiencies ( whats this 2V/3V/4V BS??? ) I know full well, that the 3V Mustang 4.6 gets 300HP... at 10.0:1 compression... but the majority of 4.6 usage is at 9.0:1 ( burn cr p for fuel ) compression. That is a key issue and critical feature going forward. I might add, that a 4V4.6 at 10,0:1 compression or higher is simply a matter of different pistons... and better than 320HP at that.

 

As for the BOF/unibody issue, there is at least one IRS that will work on all BOF "panthers", SUV and F150s. As for unibody, the Aussie unit would do... although given what GMC is doing with Camaro specs, a "panther" based Mustang, as well as T'Bird, Cougar and Lincoln Mark "" ( all in the 195"-200" length ) are serious considerations provided there is an IRS on the "panther" chassis.

 

The only thing dead at Ford right now is a bit of imagination. If that keeps up, the company will follow.

[jpd80]

If the new 6-speeder is the same physical size as the panther 4-speer auto, then no problem.

Similarly, the 4.6 3V with a slightly lower Compression for PI use would be welcome.

They could be brave and go the Duratec 37 and 6-speed auto as well, use gearing to overcome torque defecit.

A little attention to detail might see the panthers though for another couple of years.

 

Also Ford Australia has a mini assembly line for the 5.4 4V in 10:1 and 11:1 compression, maybe STAP could do this.

Probably not an ideal solution but always an option.

Edited October 23, 2007 by jpd80

[matthewq4b]

Ok I'm going to throw some thing completly off the wall out there.

 

The nex gen Falcon is Produced here (The Next gen Falcon will have to be AWD and capable) To underpin the Mustang the Taurus And Sable and their CUV's. Think LS sized RWD sedan vehicles. The Panther recieves a comprehensive ground up Overhaul.

The Panther can remain BOF RWD for the full size market and the PI units.

The Panther frame could easy be set up to handle the control blade IRS or a Solid rear axel. Since that portion of the frame needs to go in the ash can any how the cost to allow to both would be minimal from a design point. I bet all the Hard points for the Control blade IRS could be used to support a 3 link SRA. All the cars use the same basic rear suspension and front suspension componats.

 

Ford covers all bases this way a larger mid sized sedan Taurus- Sable capable of competing with the best on the planet weather it is Toyota Or BMW. A CUV capable of doing Comercal duty with a comercial body to replace the now gone RWD mini vans A new Taurus X that could be cabable of of AWD and actually tow if called upon it for the CUV. This could merge the Explorer and the Taurus X in to one basic vehicle. Etiher V8 RWD tow rig or V6 grocery getter for mom.

 

Lincoln could take a anouther stab at the midsized RWD luxery market, this time witha a worty contender. Ans offer a large premium Luxery sedan.

 

 

 

This would allow Ford OZ to keep the Falcon Give Ford NA a vaible replacment for the Explorer, Have V8 or V6 large mid sized sedan avalible. Build a CUV the soccer mom and a small cargo van for the Comecial sector. And still keep the 60K plus fleet sales Forf the Panthers

 

A falcon in OZ has to do Sedan and comecial duty why not exploit that here. and stufff the basic chassis under as many vehicles as possible

 

 

Doing this would Kepp all of fords current customers happy and open segments for new customers.

 

 

Any how just a thought.

 

 

Matthew