FordBuyer Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 AP report today that CAP is operating at less than 65% capacity and thus on endangered list. Ford just spent over $1 billion on that plant too a few years ago, and will be home to new MKS. Go figure. Duh Ford...how about giving that flexible plant products that will sell. Ford spent all that money to make plant flexible so that if product doesn't sell it can quickly go to something that does. If that plant closes as one of Ford's few flexible plants and all that money spent, Ford may as well get out of N.A. completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 how about giving that flexible plant products that will sell. Ford spent all that money to make plant flexible so that if product doesn't sell it can quickly go to something that does. If that plant closes as one of Ford's few flexible plants and all that money spent, Ford may as well get out of N.A. completely. You just described MTP as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 AP report today that CAP is operating at less than 65% capacity and thus on endangered list. Ford just spent over $1 billion on that plant too a few years ago, and will be home to new MKS. Go figure. Duh Ford...how about giving that flexible plant products that will sell. Ford spent all that money to make plant flexible so that if product doesn't sell it can quickly go to something that does. If that plant closes as one of Ford's few flexible plants and all that money spent, Ford may as well get out of N.A. completely. I'll tell ya...it's very easy to get disillusioned by this company. Ford does these tepid redesigns and then is so quick to throw in the towel if it doesn't sell well. Ford is going to have to spend the money, put tons of effort into new, exciting product, and then sell the hell out of it to survive. Why they won't do that, I don't know. Ford should be able to put at least 6 new products into CAP if it had the balls and sense of urgency it is lacking at the moment. Let's see...Ranger will be gone soon with its 100,000 volume, and Panther vehicles are not long for this world and their over 100,000 volume, and Ford is to stabilize market share over next couple years? I think not. Not unless there is a lot of new product we know nothing about so far, and I don't believer there is. What product exactly is going to save this company? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 CAP is also one of two Ford plants that did not approve local flex work agreements to which all other plants agreed (IIRC). Perhaps that is more significant than we know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 What product exactly is going to save this company? Nothing they are currently building, and nothing I have seen in concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Nothing they are currently building, and nothing I have seen in concept. Well now that we have an expert opinion we can all move on. Seriously. We have 2 new Fords and 2 new Lincolns that we know of coming on line. We have the Fusion refresh, the Mustang Refresh, the F150 refresh, a new Taurus out on only 2 years, a revised Edge, MKX a couple of years away. There is a great deal of great product on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Nothing they are currently building, and nothing I have seen in concept. I think a 4.4L Turbo Diesel F-150 and Expedition that got respectable fuel economy could be huge. While they are at it a 3.7L Turbo Diesel Explorer might be a great idea as well. The problem is exactly how many years away are we now??? The diesel Explorer will never happen because they are going away from a truck based design and the F-150 and Expedition Diesel are still vaporware in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I think a 4.4L Turbo Diesel F-150 and Expedition that got respectable fuel economy could be huge. While they are at it a 3.7L Turbo Diesel Explorer might be a great idea as well. The problem is exactly how many years away are we now??? The diesel Explorer will never happen because they are going away from a truck based design and the F-150 and Expedition Diesel are still vaporware in my eyes. They don't need a truck frame to have a diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) You guys won't like this, Would Ford change Taurus to a LWB CD3 and make it in Mexico alongside the Fusion? Is that something Ford would really do after spending buckets on D3 Taurus and CAP? Edited October 30, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You guys are missing the whole point. Nothing Ford currently builds, and that includes the refreshes of those vehicles, will save this company. Ford needs something else. Something to fill in the gaps in their lineup. Something that will add to their portfolio. A company cannot shrink itself to profitability and success. You need to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 CAP is also one of two Ford plants that did not approve local flex work agreements to which all other plants agreed (IIRC). Perhaps that is more significant than we know... I didn't know that. Hopefully the workers there will come to their senses because they are not bargaining from strength there considering how poorly the Tauurs and Taurus X are selling. I see hundreds of Taurus models sitting on dealer lots around here and many more Fusions are leaving dealer than Taurus. I'm seeing more and more Taurus models on streets, but they are still selling slowly around here. Ford is increasing incentives and lease deals are coming way down. Hopefully that will jump start it a little. I still think it's very nice car and much better than my older Taurus. If I were in buying mood, it would be my choice. Maybe that's the problem, many like me that would buy one are just not in buying mood. There is not much positive about economy to get one in buying mood. That has to hurt a car like the new Taurus when so many domestic buyers like me are sitting on the sidelines. I'm not a yuppie who sits around reading CR and brag about what a good consumer I am by buying Japanese. I really think the domestic buyers are for most part not buying and if they do it's used. I don't see that changing for couple more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 They already have $160 billion in world wide sales and can't make money. There's no point in trying to sell more when your products aren't profitable, that's why the alarm bells are ringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) You guys are missing the whole point. Nothing Ford currently builds, and that includes the refreshes of those vehicles, will save this company. Ford needs something else. Something to fill in the gaps in their lineup. Something that will add to their portfolio. A company cannot shrink itself to profitability and success. You need to grow. No your wrong. A company can shrink itself to profitability and that is exactly what Ford is doing. You worry about making money first, then you worry abut growing. Cost savings and profit margins are what matters most now. On top of that, you have no idea what level of sales the products will rise to once they are improved. They could sell in much higher numbers. Sales are low right now for some because the US economy is in bad shape. Edited October 30, 2007 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 No your wrong. A company can shrink itself to profitability and that is exactly what Ford is doing. Yep. And they have been doing it for almost six years now. Their plan seems to be working perfectly. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Yep. And they have been doing it for almost six years now. Their plan seems to be working perfectly. :rolleyes: We had a surprise profit one quarter already. On top of that cash flow is going in the right direction. Things look ok to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Yep. And they have been doing it for almost six years now. Their plan seems to be working perfectly. :rolleyes: I hope FoA get sold to BMW..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 We had a surprise profit one quarter already. On top of that cash flow is going in the right direction. Things look ok to me. $750 Million dollar profit in one quarter impresses you for 6 years of work? You are easily impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) $750 Million dollar profit in one quarter impresses you for 6 years of work? You are easily impressed. No, it impresses me when there was supposed to be no profit whatsoever. An increase in cash on hand by something like (projected) $ 4B is also impressive. Edited October 30, 2007 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 $750 Million dollar profit in one quarter impresses you for 6 years of work? You are easily impressed. Cash increased $2 billion but everyone missed that one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 $750 Million dollar profit in one quarter impresses you for 6 years of work? You are easily impressed. Cash increased $2 billion but everyone missed that one.... Sorry, that was for Q2, more expected soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Cash increased $2 billion but everyone missed that one.... If it wasn't profit, then where did it come from? Did they mortgage another assembly plant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) If it wasn't profit, then where did it come from? Did they mortgage another assembly plant? If you have a look at cash on hand in 2006 Q4, 2007Q1, 2207Q2 you can see they raised the loan and cash increased to $46 B, Q1 it's down to $35 B, Q2 it's back up to $37 B. Juggling the books, internal improvements? You can service a debt and not have a profit but extra cash? Edited October 30, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Depends on how you are writing off assets as well. You always have more cash inflow than profits. Depending on how much you are spending on new assets like plants and equipment, total cash flow will be positive even if you record a loss. Obviously, if your cash spend on assets is greater than your inflow, you have negative cash flow. You can also have negative cash flow with profits if you make large investments in assets with lower depreciation expenses on your books. The two are linked in the longer run, but not tied year-to-year or quarter-to-quarter. Right now, cash flow, not profit, is the critical thing for Ford. In two years, profit, not cash flow, will be what we need to watch. I hope the Taurus sold more than 4,000 units this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You guys won't like this,Would Ford change Taurus to a LWB CD3 and make it in Mexico alongside the Fusion? Is that something Ford would really do after spending buckets on D3 Taurus and CAP? Um how would they do that if Hermosillo plant is near capacity? Anyways, I think this is more or less a scare tactic for Chicago to pass a COA... Ford has already stated that they will keep improving the Taurus and we'll have all new sheet metal on the car in under 2 years if its a 10MY release. Think about it..its Almost 2008, how is Ford going to find another plant in say 18 months to move it to? Remember this is Ford we are Talking about Keep in mind also that even if the MKS sells only 25-50K units a year that is a pretty sizable increase and would push capacity levels higher then they are now... Plus it would really help if they advertised the damn thing...I hope this new guy from Lexus fixes Ford's TV advertising problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 Um how would they do that if Hermosillo plant is near capacity? Anyways, I think this is more or less a scare tactic for Chicago to pass a COA... Ford has already stated that they will keep improving the Taurus and we'll have all new sheet metal on the car in under 2 years if its a 10MY release. Think about it..its Almost 2008, how is Ford going to find another plant in say 18 months to move it to? Remember this is Ford we are Talking about Keep in mind also that even if the MKS sells only 25-50K units a year that is a pretty sizable increase and would push capacity levels higher then they are now... Plus it would really help if they advertised the damn thing...I hope this new guy from Lexus fixes Ford's TV advertising problems. Hermosillo was shut down last week. Fusion sales are ok, but Milan sales suck. I would say Hermosillo right now is at about maybe 80% capacity if that. And with the Fusion V6 saddled with 26 mpg highway and the AWD version even lower, don't look for any uptick until 2009 Fusion arrives and let's hope MPG rating is significantly higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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