Charger police car here we go again

[stapking]

Crown Vic faces squad car rival

Sporty Dodge Charger aiming for throne

November 24, 2007

 

BY JEFF KAROUB

 

ASSOCIATED PRESS

 

The police car you see on the roadside -- or in your rearview mirror, if luck's not on your side -- might not look as you expected.

 

The sporty upstart Dodge Charger is aiming to challenge the Ford Crown Victoria as chief of police cars. Chrysler LLC's full-size model that debuted in 2006 is no immediate threat to the Crown Vic or Chevrolet Impala, the market's other major player, but the Charger is gaining momentum in a market that sells 75,000 vehicles a year as national tests cite its speed and handling.

 

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"We've been steadily gaining market share and acceptance for the police vehicle since its inception," said Chrysler spokeswoman Shawn Morgan. "We see that trend continuing."

 

It's a small dent in the automotive industry, which expects to sell about 16 million cars this year. But it's an important niche for automakers, because it gives them a chance to put their products to the test when life -- or at least the law -- is on the line.

 

"That vehicle has to accommodate a bunch of requirements -- it's an officer's first-aid station, comfort area for accident victims, command post for a crime scene. Next thing you know, it's involved in a high-speed run, responding to a heart attack, chasing a criminal," said Lt. David Halliday, who leads the Michigan State Police's annual vehicle tests that serve as a national standard for law enforcement.

 

"We really ask" the automakers "to do an enduring duty for the public that's often underestimated," he said.

 

Automakers don't break out data for sales to law enforcement agencies.

 

John Felice, Ford Motor Co.'s director of North American fleet operations, said Ford forecasts flat sales this year for police cars and controls about 80% of the market.

 

The latest round of police vehicle tests on 2008 models found the Charger with the 5.7-liter HEMI V-8 engine had the fastest acceleration, highest top speed and among the shortest braking distances.

 

"Law enforcement has always liked good performance in a vehicle," Halliday said. "For example, the" 5.7-liter "Charger has a top speed of" nearly "150 m.p.h. If you're in the market for a vehicle that has that kind of performance, that kind of vehicle will fit the bill."

 

Halliday said his testing team doesn't assign scores to the vehicles or declare winners. It assesses what each vehicle offers and how it can be applied to a department's mission. The tests also include road racing course times on a 2-mile course. The winners: the V-8 versions of the Dodge Charger and Magnum wagon.

 

Halliday said the Charger also has an advanced stability-control system, which senses when a driver may lose control of the vehicle and automatically applies brakes to individual wheels to help keep it stable and avoid a rollover. He said his team is working with the other automakers on developing such systems for their police vehicles.

 

Likewise, many agencies opt for the Impala because it has front-wheel drive, which offers additional traction control in slippery conditions, he said.

 

Halliday said he believes the Charger might be garnering attention because it offers a new option in the market, long dominated by Ford and General Motors Corp.'s Chevy division.

 

Chrysler returned to the police car market in 2000 after a 14-year absence, but received what Halliday called a "lukewarm response from law enforcement" to its Dodge Intrepid. The Charger has been much better received, he said.

 

A State Police spokeswoman says the department currently has about 670 Crown Victorias and 10 Chargers.

 

Ford's Felice said the Dearborn automaker keeps a close eye on competitors but also works closely with law enforcement and is confident that it is continuing its 50-year tradition of making safe, affordable, roomy and reliable vehicles for law enforcement agencies.

 

"Really when you look at the overall police market. It's really ... not an individual attribute," Felice said. "It's who brings the product to the marketplace that meets the collective needs of this customer, the police officer."

 

Despite the new cars entering the police segment, Ford remains the dominant player, Felice said.

 

Gene Taylor, the police chief in Belleville, said his small department has used Ford vehicles for several years, but bought a Charger a year ago and plans to buy another. He said his department, which has five cruisers, sought another option after having major problems with several Crown Victorias and came across the relaunched Charger.

 

Taylor, who describes himself as "an old Dodge boy," initially thought Chrysler was using an old nameplate to promote a new product. But he tested all three automakers' offerings at a Chrysler event and came away impressed with the Charger's handling and performance.

 

"It's lived up to the hype so far," he said.

 

Halliday says all three automakers are making vehicles that stand up to the rigors of law enforcement.

 

"Competition is good for law enforcement," he said. "It strengthens the industry in making the vehicles capable across the board for a variety of missions."

 

 

 

Funny I thought the Charger was loosing ground with police sales? Like I've always said Ford better wake up do some updates on the CV to compete with the Charger and others. And to the big brass at Ford if you think your going to push the police into the Taurus model after you kill the panther you better wake up. Time to do some modifications on the ever reliable CV it alrady has the market but we'll start loosing if we don't get back on track!

[stap1520]

Crown Vic faces squad car rival

Sporty Dodge Charger aiming for throne

November 24, 2007

 

BY JEFF KAROUB

 

ASSOCIATED PRESS

 

The police car you see on the roadside -- or in your rearview mirror, if luck's not on your side -- might not look as you expected.

 

The sporty upstart Dodge Charger is aiming to challenge the Ford Crown Victoria as chief of police cars. Chrysler LLC's full-size model that debuted in 2006 is no immediate threat to the Crown Vic or Chevrolet Impala, the market's other major player, but the Charger is gaining momentum in a market that sells 75,000 vehicles a year as national tests cite its speed and handling.

 

Advertisement

 

 

"We've been steadily gaining market share and acceptance for the police vehicle since its inception," said Chrysler spokeswoman Shawn Morgan. "We see that trend continuing."

 

It's a small dent in the automotive industry, which expects to sell about 16 million cars this year. But it's an important niche for automakers, because it gives them a chance to put their products to the test when life -- or at least the law -- is on the line.

 

"That vehicle has to accommodate a bunch of requirements -- it's an officer's first-aid station, comfort area for accident victims, command post for a crime scene. Next thing you know, it's involved in a high-speed run, responding to a heart attack, chasing a criminal," said Lt. David Halliday, who leads the Michigan State Police's annual vehicle tests that serve as a national standard for law enforcement.

 

"We really ask" the automakers "to do an enduring duty for the public that's often underestimated," he said.

 

Automakers don't break out data for sales to law enforcement agencies.

 

John Felice, Ford Motor Co.'s director of North American fleet operations, said Ford forecasts flat sales this year for police cars and controls about 80% of the market.

 

The latest round of police vehicle tests on 2008 models found the Charger with the 5.7-liter HEMI V-8 engine had the fastest acceleration, highest top speed and among the shortest braking distances.

 

"Law enforcement has always liked good performance in a vehicle," Halliday said. "For example, the" 5.7-liter "Charger has a top speed of" nearly "150 m.p.h. If you're in the market for a vehicle that has that kind of performance, that kind of vehicle will fit the bill."

 

Halliday said his testing team doesn't assign scores to the vehicles or declare winners. It assesses what each vehicle offers and how it can be applied to a department's mission. The tests also include road racing course times on a 2-mile course. The winners: the V-8 versions of the Dodge Charger and Magnum wagon.

 

Halliday said the Charger also has an advanced stability-control system, which senses when a driver may lose control of the vehicle and automatically applies brakes to individual wheels to help keep it stable and avoid a rollover. He said his team is working with the other automakers on developing such systems for their police vehicles.

 

Likewise, many agencies opt for the Impala because it has front-wheel drive, which offers additional traction control in slippery conditions, he said.

 

Halliday said he believes the Charger might be garnering attention because it offers a new option in the market, long dominated by Ford and General Motors Corp.'s Chevy division.

 

Chrysler returned to the police car market in 2000 after a 14-year absence, but received what Halliday called a "lukewarm response from law enforcement" to its Dodge Intrepid. The Charger has been much better received, he said.

 

A State Police spokeswoman says the department currently has about 670 Crown Victorias and 10 Chargers.

 

Ford's Felice said the Dearborn automaker keeps a close eye on competitors but also works closely with law enforcement and is confident that it is continuing its 50-year tradition of making safe, affordable, roomy and reliable vehicles for law enforcement agencies.

 

"Really when you look at the overall police market. It's really ... not an individual attribute," Felice said. "It's who brings the product to the marketplace that meets the collective needs of this customer, the police officer."

 

Despite the new cars entering the police segment, Ford remains the dominant player, Felice said.

 

Gene Taylor, the police chief in Belleville, said his small department has used Ford vehicles for several years, but bought a Charger a year ago and plans to buy another. He said his department, which has five cruisers, sought another option after having major problems with several Crown Victorias and came across the relaunched Charger.

 

Taylor, who describes himself as "an old Dodge boy," initially thought Chrysler was using an old nameplate to promote a new product. But he tested all three automakers' offerings at a Chrysler event and came away impressed with the Charger's handling and performance.

 

"It's lived up to the hype so far," he said.

 

Halliday says all three automakers are making vehicles that stand up to the rigors of law enforcement.

 

"Competition is good for law enforcement," he said. "It strengthens the industry in making the vehicles capable across the board for a variety of missions."

Funny I thought the Charger was loosing ground with police sales? Like I've always said Ford better wake up do some updates on the CV to compete with the Charger and others. And to the big brass at Ford if you think your going to push the police into the Taurus model after you kill the panther you better wake up. Time to do some modifications on the ever reliable CV it alrady has the market but we'll start loosing if we don't get back on track!

Haven't you noticed or heard? FORD does not want to sell CV's any more !

They dont care about them and are sending all customers to buy Chargers, Taurus or whatever else they can buy.

Ford is doing their best to kill the panthers and close stap its a fact.

[jam116]

Haven't you noticed or heard? FORD does not want to sell CV's any more !

They dont care about them and are sending all customers to buy Chargers, Taurus or whatever else they can buy.

Ford is doing their best to kill the panthers and close stap its a fact.

 

I hope you are not right on this one.

I spent many a day and night in a Crown Vic...That car saved my life in two different cases.

Once it took several slugs from a shotgun with me behind the fender as a shooter was trying to pick me off....

His Jeep did not protect him as well when I threw three rounds from my Mossberg into it.....

 

I rolled a Vic three times in a chase and walked away with a few scratched and bruises....

You talk with a line officer and he will tell you by far the Crown Vic is the car of choice....Besides if a

citizen sees the Police utilizing Crown Vic's they will know that this car offers dependability and safety.....

 

I retired several years ago, some of my friends (still in the business) have been issues the Dodges...They do not like them...Say the

car does not fee; as stable and has allot of body roll...

 

I remember when the NC Highway Patrol went with the Dodges in the old days of the 440's they would order a extra transmission for every car....Say's allot about dependability of the tranmissions back then...(early 70's)

Edited November 24, 2007 by jam116

[Traveler]

Hey, jam116... thanks for serving our great State of NC.

 

What is up with all these Tahoes running around with the state overbudgeted in gasoline as it is? Heard anything? I passed by the lot on Rock Quarry a few months ago and there were dozens upon dozens of brand new Tahoes. I know there was well over a hundred. I know that its said that the Tahoes do not get that much worse than a Hemi Charger or CVPI, but why would the state buy into something that does get worse gas mileage and would seem rather top heavy? I have noticed that they do have a hunkered down suspension, but still it looks like it would be fairly easy to roll one. At first, I though it was mostly the Motor Carrier officers that were using them, but I see quite a number of State Troopers using them.

[jam116]

Hey, jam116... thanks for serving our great State of NC.

 

What is up with all these Tahoes running around with the state overbudgeted in gasoline as it is? Heard anything? I passed by the lot on Rock Quarry a few months ago and there were dozens upon dozens of brand new Tahoes. I know there was well over a hundred. I know that its said that the Tahoes do not get that much worse than a Hemi Charger or CVPI, but why would the state buy into something that does get worse gas mileage and would seem rather top heavy? I have noticed that they do have a hunkered down suspension, but still it looks like it would be fairly easy to roll one. At first, I though it was mostly the Motor Carrier officers that were using them, but I see quite a number of State Troopers using them.

 

I've seen some on the road...I do not know what the mind set is with these vehicles...I would never want to slide one through a grass median to make a quick turn on a vehicle. I bet they would flip like a politian.....The way fule is getting someone needs to be looking at the dollars or they will be crying for more tax dollars...You know how that goes..We have to live inside a budget but the goverment does not as they just reach into our pockets....lol....

[jonas1022]

Several of the municipalities in the DFW area are and have been using Expeditions and Tahoes for the tougher nieghborhoods. Had em for years, and are on their third or fourth replacements.

 

Like I have posted before, the community I live in bought into the Charger schtick, tried the Magnum. And are now going back to the CV. Not enough room inside the Dodges. They wind up calling in a second or third officer to carry the perp back to the cop shop jail...

[taxman100]

Several of the municipalities in the DFW area are and have been using Expeditions and Tahoes for the tougher nieghborhoods. Had em for years, and are on their third or fourth replacements.

 

Like I have posted before, the community I live in bought into the Charger schtick, tried the Magnum. And are now going back to the CV. Not enough room inside the Dodges. They wind up calling in a second or third officer to carry the perp back to the cop shop jail...

 

This article was kind of light on any hard numbers or facts. That being said, I wonder why Ford decided to do nothing when they heard the Charger was coming - at least some sort of optional engine - even the 3 valve 4.6 would have shown they wanted to keep the business.

[fordtion]

Hey, jam116... thanks for serving our great State of NC.

 

What is up with all these Tahoes running around with the state overbudgeted in gasoline as it is? Heard anything? I passed by the lot on Rock Quarry a few months ago and there were dozens upon dozens of brand new Tahoes. I know there was well over a hundred. I know that its said that the Tahoes do not get that much worse than a Hemi Charger or CVPI, but why would the state buy into something that does get worse gas mileage and would seem rather top heavy? I have noticed that they do have a hunkered down suspension, but still it looks like it would be fairly easy to roll one. At first, I though it was mostly the Motor Carrier officers that were using them, but I see quite a number of State Troopers using them.

Probably politics as usual in NC. The state wants to keep the big time Chevy dealer in Raleigh happy, so they bought Tahoes...Big Ford dealer was getting all the CV's and Chevy dealers cried so loud about it. Started back 7-8 years ago. The state bought some Camero's, but they still cried like babies...

[08FEH]

I retired several years ago, some of my friends (still in the business) have been issues the Dodges...They do not like them...Say the

car does not fee; as stable and has allot of body roll...

 

The charger and Magnum have significantly LESS body roll and will out handle the CVPI any day of the week on a driver training track. The police package Magnum/Chargers are issued with 18" pavement gripping low profile tires. I don't know what the heck your friends (still in the business) are driving, but the CVPI is a Titanic compared to the nimble Dodges.

 

I am NOT a Dodge fan and the CVPI DID have more interior room, but NO WAY does it (the CVPI) have less body roll nor does it outhandle a POLICE PACKAGE Charger or Magnum.

 

These Dodges stick like GLUE compared to the 07 CVPI.

 

 

Respectfully

08FEH

[atomaro]

The charger and Magnum have significantly LESS body roll and will out handle the CVPI any day of the week on a driver training track. The police package Magnum/Chargers are issued with 18" pavement gripping low profile tires. I don't know what the heck your friends (still in the business) are driving, but the CVPI is a Titanic compared to the nimble Dodges.

 

I am NOT a Dodge fan and the CVPI DID have more interior room, but NO WAY does it (the CVPI) have less body roll nor does it outhandle a POLICE PACKAGE Charger or Magnum.

 

These Dodges stick like GLUE compared to the 07 CVPI.

Respectfully

08FEH

 

 

I'd like to hear your impression of a 100K mile Charger and a 100Kmile CV.

[08FEH]

I'd like to hear your impression of a 100K mile Charger and a 100Kmile CV.

 

Not sure on the Charger as of yet, it's gonna take awhile for them to hit that, but at 100k the CVPI is pretty loose handling-wise. As you may know, suspension is not one of the things that are regularly maintained unless there is a part failure when it comes to city owned car maintenance. The drivetrains on the cvpi do last forever though if they are regularly serviced.

 

No doubt there is a significant difference in handling between a 100k cvpi and a 1k cvpi.

 

 

Time will tell how well the Dodges hold up with the same amount of maintenance.

 

08FEH

[MIAMI-DADE]

I'd like to hear your impression of a 100K mile Charger and a 100Kmile CV.

 

Most departments don't keep patrol cars till 100k miles.Broward County Sheriff usually gets rid of theirs by 60k miles or before.The F.H.P. gets new cars very often.In fact The Broward County Sheriff office are slowly replacing their Crown Vics with Hemi Chargers.They claim they are getting them cause their faster.They say they can live with the blind spots,small trunk and etc that goes with it.

 

Now Miami-Dade is a different story.They keep their cars for years on end and over 100k miles.I haven't seen any Chargers in their fleet yet.In fact not long ago I saw a 97 Crown Vic in their fleet still running strong.

[Furious1Auto]

The sporty upstart Dodge Charger is aiming to challenge the Ford Crown Victoria as chief of police cars. Chrysler LLC's full-size model that debuted in 2006 is no immediate threat to the Crown Vic or Chevrolet Impala, the market's other major player, but the Charger is gaining momentum in a market that sells 75,000 vehicles a year as national tests cite its speed and handling.

Again with this Impala crap! Using a V-6 to run traffic stops against V-8's is the equivelent to chasing a ten speed with a Tri-Cycle! As far a cop car sale of the Charger Dodge is offering municipalities incetives to try the Charger out. The sale of Charger Police cars are up but only account for a couple per dept. on a trial basis. My father is a retired policeman, I was an Aux., and my brother is active for 15 years. My brother is telling me that the test Chargers are lacking in rear interior volume to adequitly transport prisoners, the dept.'s that have taken them on end up using them in traffic divisions and will likely not reorder them. It is a flash in the pan and once the municipalities have found them impractical through trial they will discontinue their use! I do agree that a refresh or replacement of the CV is in order though!

[MIAMI-DADE]

It is a flash in the pan and once the municipalities have found them impractical through trial they will discontinue their use! I do agree that a refresh or replacement of the CV is in order though!

 

Thats what I thought.Broward County has been testing them since they first rolled off the line.Some of the Leos even were laughing when they got them as it was a joke of a patrol car with no trunk room and no room in the back seat with a cage.Thats why I was shocked when a Leo told me just a few days ago they went with the Charger as the car to replace the retiring Crown Vics.

[GreyPony]

Haven't you noticed or heard? FORD does not want to sell CV's any more !

They dont care about them and are sending all customers to buy Chargers, Taurus or whatever else they can buy.

Ford is doing their best to kill the panthers and close stap its a fact.

 

Are they really trying to kill the CV/GM? Then why not just stop selling them all together? Or, are they just milking them for everything they can? What is the amount of profit made per vehicle? It just seems that for whatever reason the company is happy just making police cruisers, taxis and golden age mobiles. The car keeps selling without any major changes or advertising, what else could they ask for? :shrug:

[Furious1Auto]

Thats what I thought.Broward County has been testing them since they first rolled off the line.Some of the Leos even were laughing when they got them as it was a joke of a patrol car with no trunk room and no room in the back seat with a cage.Thats why I was shocked when a Leo told me just a few days ago they went with the Charger as the car to replace the retiring Crown Vics.

It will get the officiers laid! That's why patrolmen want them. Well besides the added power, but I'm sure that the Dept. heads are more concerned with saving on fuel which it another area that the CV are leading, the HEMI option drinks gas and with most cities watching the buget I would be suprised to see it lasting!

[stap1520]

Are they really trying to kill the CV/GM? Then why not just stop selling them all together? Or, are they just milking them for everything they can? What is the amount of profit made per vehicle? It just seems that for whatever reason the company is happy just making police cruisers, taxis and golden age mobiles. The car keeps selling without any major changes or advertising, what else could they ask for? :shrug:

you can't buy retail crown vics anymore and you cant get a grand marquis in Canada they try to sell you a taurus.

they are eliminating sales because they want stap on one shift and we can only build on one shift enough units for fleet cars and lincolns....

they wont spend any money upgrading the look or add horse power etc...even though in 2005 they said they were going to spend $200 mil on refreshing them they lied....

[suv_guy_19]

you can't buy retail crown vics anymore and you cant get a grand marquis in Canada they try to sell you a taurus.

they are eliminating sales because they want stap on one shift and we can only build on one shift enough units for fleet cars and lincolns....

they wont spend any money upgrading the look or add horse power etc...even though in 2005 they said they were going to spend $200 mil on refreshing them they lied....

 

 

Since when can you not get a GM in Canada?

[suv_guy_19]

Again with this Impala crap! Using a V-6 to run traffic stops against V-8's is the equivelent to chasing a ten speed with a Tri-Cycle! As far a cop car sale of the Charger Dodge is offering municipalities incetives to try the Charger out. The sale of Charger Police cars are up but only account for a couple per dept. on a trial basis. My father is a retired policeman, I was an Aux., and my brother is active for 15 years. My brother is telling me that the test Chargers are lacking in rear interior volume to adequitly transport prisoners, the dept.'s that have taken them on end up using them in traffic divisions and will likely not reorder them. It is a flash in the pan and once the municipalities have found them impractical through trial they will discontinue their use! I do agree that a refresh or replacement of the CV is in order though!

 

 

The 9C1 is faster than the CVPI at top end and is the same off the line.

[Furious1Auto]

The 9C1 is faster than the CVPI at top end and is the same off the line.

What are you basing this on, one report? Any fleet vehicle buyer can spec their units out, and any change in gear ratio will change the results. By your own emission the CVPI is faster in a high speed chase, they're not going to pull hole shots against the bad guy!

[P71_CrownVic]

Again with this Impala crap! Using a V-6 to run traffic stops against V-8's is the equivelent to chasing a ten speed with a Tri-Cycle!

 

You do know that the Impala with the 3.9 is just as fast...if not faster...than the Vic, right? And the Tahoe is faster than the Vic too?

[suv_guy_19]

What are you basing this on, one report? Any fleet vehicle buyer can spec their units out, and any change in gear ratio will change the results. By your own emission the CVPI is faster in a high speed chase, they're not going to pull hole shots against the bad guy!

 

 

No, the 9C1 is faster at high speed. I am basing this on the Michigan State police report., where law enforcement gets their info from. There are other things that redeem the CVPI, but the speed from its V8 is not one of them. Speed is not necessary for most police work anyway over a reasonable amount.

Edited December 6, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[Furious1Auto]

No, the 9C1 is faster at high speed. I am basing this on the Michigan State police report., where law enforcement gets their info from. There are other things that redeem the CVPI, but the speed from its V8 is not one of them. Speed is not necessary for most police work anyway over a reasonable amount.

Once again a change in gear ratio between the Impala and CV will change those results. What were the ratio's of the impala's and CV's being sighted in the report? I speced out a semi I wanted to buy and even with the same identical motor and tranny a change from 3/36 to 3/90 gear ratio will change the take off and top speeds as much as 10 sec. (0 to 60) to 35 MPH top speed. I have a hard time believing that a Chevy V-6 generates more power than the Ford 4.6 V-8! That being said the difference has to be elsewhere in the drivetrain, either the tranny or rear end gear ratio!

Edited December 6, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[atomaro]

You do know that the Impala with the 3.9 is just as fast...if not faster...than the Vic, right? And the Tahoe is faster than the Vic too?

 

I'm not so sure. On civilian vehicles I would say so. But by the time you outfit the vehicle with all the LEO goodies, I would think that the CVPI would out perform the 3.9. 0-60 I think would be close. After that I would expect the CVPI to pull.

 

In regards to the Tahoe, in a high speed pursuit are you sure the Tahoe is gonna be the one in front? Too much drag. I am not debating a drag race here...thats a no brainer.

 

I could be totally wrong, but....

[suv_guy_19]

Once again a change in gear ratio between the Impala and CV will change those results. What were the ratio's of the impala's and CV's being sighted in the report? I speced out a semi I wanted to buy and even with the same identical motor and tranny a change from 3/36 to 3/90 gear ratio will change the take off and top speeds as much as 10 sec. (0 to 60) to 35 MPH top speed. I have a hard time believing that a Chevy V-6 generates more power than the Ford 4.6 V-8! That being said the difference has to be elsewhere in the drivetrain, either the tranny or rear end gear ratio!

 

 

Doesn't matter the ratio, the Impala is always faster. http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123--16274--,00.html