Deanh Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I wouldn't really call the Explorer's looks outdated....just ugly. It certainly has a more traditional SUV shape, but the larger interior dimensions in comparison to more swoopy CUV's show that to be the better route for a lot of buyers. Given the restraints of the shape, Ford certainly could have been a bit more creative with the sheet metal without it becoming offensive. And look how the Edge is selling in comparison -- it's the supposed super-hot new kid on the block and it's really not outselling the Explorer by much. Given a nicer appearance, the Explorer should easily be able to maintain 10-12,000 units a month in sales. must be different in your neck of the woods...Edge sales here are at LEAST 20-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 kept up to date? you at Eddies house Nick?....maybe...and I mean MAYBE mechanically, but cosmetically it remains one of the weakest in fords arsenal....look how its up to date brother ( Edge ) is selling in comparison...people are more interested in how a vehicle looks than in Body on frame, rear wheel drive etc etc.....day to day usage trumps ability most of the time..... Well The Explorer isn't that Ugly to the point that it will hinder sales (some models more the others), but I think the thing that is happening is that its a victim of its own success (everyone has one) and the crappy MPG it gets. The Edge is a fresh face with better gas mileage that is becoming more and more important to people. There is a market still for the Explorer, but Ford can't expect to sell 400K of them a year like they did in the past, 150-200K is much more realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 must be different in your neck of the woods...Edge sales here are at LEAST 20-1 Overall sales numbers aren't that different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 must be different in your neck of the woods...Edge sales here are at LEAST 20-1 Must be a big neck: YTD sales (through Oct): Edge: 103,809 Explorer: 118,321 Heck, October was the first month Explorer sales were EVER under 10,000...except maybe its first month on the market. There's certainly still demand for such a vehicle type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Must be a big neck: YTD sales (through Oct): Edge: 103,809 Explorer: 118,321 Heck, October was the first month Explorer sales were EVER under 10,000...except maybe its first month on the market. There's certainly still demand for such a vehicle type. we are lucky to move 2-3 a month, sorry vehicle is just BORING, as for declines in ALL sales numbers, I wonder if that is due partly to more alternatives/ choices as such, Explorer used to pretty much be the only game in town in an ( at least initially ) incredibly popular segment, sorry to say now its just a dis-appointment gathering dust aka Ranger....shame, one of their best and most dependable floorplans.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 little off the 10k isn't it?......and NO 15k is INVOICE not MSRP.......theres another issue...LACK OF MARKUP.....Msrp, 4 cyl, manual with A/c $15505, invoice $15099.....spendy for a strippy no? I guess, but here are the prices of the competing products (including rebates, destination, and the minimum option package(s) to get A/C). All are base 4cyl/5spd, and 2008/standard cab (except as noted). Ranger: $12,292 Colorado: $14,251 Frontier: $16,180 (this is an ext cab. No standard cab for 2008) Tacoma: $13,701 (this is a 2007 model. Invoice for 2008 unavailable) No, it's a little off the 10K mark, but the Ranger does (currently) have a $1,400 advantage over its closest competitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I guess, but here are the prices of the competing products (including rebates, destination, and the minimum option package(s) to get A/C). All are base 4cyl/5spd, and 2008/standard cab (except as noted). Ranger: $12,292 Colorado: $14,251 Frontier: $16,180 (this is an ext cab. No standard cab for 2008) Tacoma: $13,701 (this is a 2007 model. Invoice for 2008 unavailable) No, it's a little off the 10K mark, but the Ranger does (currently) have a $1,400 advantage over its closest competitors. don't take this wrong, I never said it didn't...I just LOVE it when someone throws absolute BS in these threads...i just called him on it...he was having 80's flashbacks thats all....hell, I remember selling the damn things at $8995 but that was literally decades ago...I guess THATS the price one pays for "progress??????????????????'...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 don't take this wrong, I never said it didn't...I just LOVE it when someone throws absolute BS in these threads...i just called him on it...he was having 80's flashbacks thats all....hell, I remember selling the damn things at $8995 but that was literally decades ago...I guess THATS the price one pays for "progress??????????????????'...... When I was little, I remember watching the daytime gameshows with my mom (that was 33+ years ago) Back then most cars were less than 5-6K (I got pretty good at Price is Right in those days). Those were the land yachts of the '70s. I would be curious to know what percentage of average annual income was represented by those cars in the '70s, in comparison to today. I really have no idea, but I suspect that cars today are (relatively) cheaper. Anyone have insights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 (edited) Key word is used to be...How many more players are in the market now? How much has the total small pickup market grown or shrunk since then?There was pently of rumors of the Ranger getting updated all the way up to 2004 or so...and this was coming from the people who worked at the plants it was built. Ford didnt do it for whatever reason...and I'm sure they felt they did the right thing. As for not upgrading it, does consistent upgrades to a product automatically mean it will still sell well? Nope! Some times the market moves away from a certain type of vehicle because it falls out vogue with the buyers. If ford kept upgrading the T-bird, would it still be around? Prob not. 1. Then Why doesn't Ford just go out of business, close up shop. I mean "OMG someone else entered the market I guess we shouldn't update our products because their is more players fighting for the same pie." 2. Of course Ford thought it was the right thing to do, or else they wouldn't have done it. But since we are living in todays time it is clear most of the things Ford "thought" were the rights things to do, were clearly not. As we can clearly see now. 3. Of course updating product doesn't mean more sales if the market is moving away from a segment but you don't leave a product to rot on the line for 20 years to speed up the decline. If it isn't worth updating than it isn't worth keeping around. Ford didn't even plan updates when the segment was expanding, it is a very safe bet that if it wasn't left to rot for 20 years, the rapid decline wouldn't have been so sharp, escpecially looking at the success of the Tacoma. Edited November 29, 2007 by DCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 (edited) One other vehicle comes to mind: Explorer. It has been kept up-to-date yet sales still are dropping. Of course, it doesn't help that it has a face only a blind mother could love. The explorer should have gotten a significant reskin for its redesign a few years ago, instead it was a new grill and tail lights on an already very dated looking vehicle. Design advances and Ford was foolish not to realize that their products need to look modern, the Explorer could have been designed sleeker or went for a rugged look and push the design envelope instead Ford went with dated and boring, that is one reason why I think the Explorer is suffering more than other players in the same segment. Edited November 29, 2007 by DCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I wouldn't really call the Explorer's looks outdated....just ugly. It certainly has a more traditional SUV shape, but the larger interior dimensions in comparison to more swoopy CUV's show that to be the better route for a lot of buyers. Given the restraints of the shape, Ford certainly could have been a bit more creative with the sheet metal without it becoming offensive. And look how the Edge is selling in comparison -- it's the supposed super-hot new kid on the block and it's really not outselling the Explorer by much. Given a nicer appearance, the Explorer should easily be able to maintain 10-12,000 units a month in sales. I don't think it is wise to compare the Edge and the Explorer, the Edge is a very succesfull new product that sells fora premium with little to no discounts and is in a different segment that was dominated by the Japanese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Key word is used to be...How many more players are in the market now? How much has the total small pickup market grown or shrunk since then? So because there's more competition they should just give up and hand over the market? Wave the white flag of surrender? What is the new competition anyway? The Ridgeline??? Like DCK said, why doesn't Ford just shut down then? There's far more competition today than there was 20 years ago. There was pently of rumors of the Ranger getting updated all the way up to 2004 or so...and this was coming from the people who worked at the plants it was built. Ford didnt do it for whatever reason...and I'm sure they felt they did the right thing. As for not upgrading it, does consistent upgrades to a product automatically mean it will still sell well? Nope! Some times the market moves away from a certain type of vehicle because it falls out vogue with the buyers. If ford kept upgrading the T-bird, would it still be around? Prob not. Well that's a fatalistic attitude, again, using your "logic", Ford should never upgrade ANYTHING! because how do they now it will lead to increased sales??? Ford should just cancel the 09 F-150, and keep selling the 04-08 for the rest of time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Explorer and Ranger on one platform = minimum combined sales of 250,000/year. Global or NA platform doesn't matter, there's enough production to keep one factory going. If Ford are smart, former main line products become niche vehicles and still provide income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 So because there's more competition they should just give up and hand over the market? Wave the white flag of surrender? What is the new competition anyway? The Ridgeline??? No your totally looking at this the wrong way...No one outside of Ford knows how much money they are making on the Ranger, if any. Why would Ford spend money on a shrinking market on a product that doesn't make money for them, esp when Ford is hurting financially? Look at the Colorado and Dakota...the Colorado isn't setting any sales records nor is the Dakota, which might be going way anyways because of crappy sales. Like DCK said, why doesn't Ford just shut down then? There's far more competition today than there was 20 years ago. Well that's a fatalistic attitude, again, using your "logic", Ford should never upgrade ANYTHING! because how do they now it will lead to increased sales??? Ford should just cancel the 09 F-150, and keep selling the 04-08 for the rest of time.. Your reading way too much into my comments again, see what I said above for your answer. Plus, According to you, the 09 F-150 is a waste of time anyways..so your agreeing that Ford shouldn't have bothered anyways... The explorer should have gotten a significant reskin for its redesign a few years ago, instead it was a new grill and tail lights on an already very dated looking vehicle. Design advances and Ford was foolish not to realize that their products need to look modern, the Explorer could have been designed sleeker or went for a rugged look and push the design envelope instead Ford went with dated and boring, that is one reason why I think the Explorer is suffering more than other players in the same segment. A significant reskin only 4-5 years after the 02 came out? The 02 Explorer is a far better looking truck then whatever else is on the market and still looks good. Since the 02 Explorer came out, what other mid-sized SUV has had any MAJOR changes to it? The only reason that the Explorer is suffering more then other player in the market, was that it was the market for the Mid-sized SUV. The market is moving away from Mid-sized SUV mostly because of MPG concerns and the market for a vehicle like that is played out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I don't think it is wise to compare the Edge and the Explorer, the Edge is a very succesfull new product that sells fora premium with little to no discounts and is in a different segment that was dominated by the Japanese. Well, comparing them side-by-side, I would definitely say the Edge is a better vehicle than the Explorer. I was just trying to make the point that DESPITE all the shortcomings on the current Explorer, it's still racking up quite a few sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 A significant reskin only 4-5 years after the 02 came out? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Yes. Why? What truck/SUV has gotten a totally new look with in 5 years of it coming out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.