Detroit Free Press: UAW health trust faces big doubts

[Len_A]

Front page, just a few days before Christmas:

 

A NEW LOOK AT THE 80-YEAR PROMISE

 

 

UAW health trust faces big doubts

 

Some experts, workers fear retiree funding will run out

 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../712230617/1014

[butthead]

I CANT BELIEVE THAT THE UAW WOULD DO A DEAL THAT MAY NOT BE GOOD FOR THE MEMBERSHIP.

 

This deal is the first step in a deal with the devil to kill the middle class by taking the rest of their savings and or inheritance through health care premiums or cost.

 

I cant wait until all these $14/hr folks need some type of care and cant get it because they dont have health care and make to much money to qualify for aid.

 

What are grandma and grandpa going to do when their grandchild needs an operation and their kids ask for help. BANG there goes the 401's their saving and or their home.

 

They are after the last bit of wealth and I'm sure there is a law somewhere in someones head that is going to allow the health care industry to seize your home and your trust assets. I cant wait to see who purposes it.

[Trimdingman]

I CANT BELIEVE THAT THE UAW WOULD DO A DEAL THAT MAY NOT BE GOOD FOR THE MEMBERSHIP.

 

This deal is the first step in a deal with the devil to kill the middle class by taking the rest of their savings and or inheritance through health care premiums or cost.

 

I cant wait until all these $14/hr folks need some type of care and cant get it because they dont have health care and make to much money to qualify for aid.

 

What are grandma and grandpa going to do when their grandchild needs an operation and their kids ask for help. BANG there goes the 401's their saving and or their home.

 

They are after the last bit of wealth and I'm sure there is a law somewhere in someones head that is going to allow the health care industry to seize your home and your trust assets. I cant wait to see who purposes it.

 

What happens when the $30 retirees want the $14 workers to negotiate more money for their health care benefits? :gang:

[butthead]

Another word for it is baby poop. Unless our fearless leaders can disquise it some how to make it look like the deal of the century it aint happening.

[DTP Body Door Hang]

Greeeeeeat so some annalist somewhere decides that the VEBA will go bankrupt. Whooooopydedo!!!! If I had a penny for every wrong prediction by the so called expert annalist make a wrong prediction I'd be a freaking billionaire!!!!.

[butthead]

The big 3 couldn't make it work how is the underfunded UAW going to do it. They wanted to get rid of it so bad now there laughing at us. This was not a good deal.

[fantasyfrank]

The big 3 couldn't make it work how is the underfunded UAW going to do it. They wanted to get rid of it so bad now there laughing at us. This was not a good deal.

Sure hope you are wrong. If not, we all are screwed.

[butthead]

STOP wishing fantasy and get real. This agreement is a warning shot over your head to let you know we are in deep poop in this country. Have you noticed who is buying real estate in this country, who's dollar is strong and who owns our debt. (The Brits, Chinese the Canadians) All the Fed can do is print more money to try to off set our imbalance. Neither the political parties have the desire to cut spending to stop this spiral. We are headed for a serious recession in this country and you need to start buying Gold, International Company stocks and bonds and Commodity based investments like yesterday. One bright spot to all this is while the greenback is tanking it improves the outlook for exports, (not much help for the US car industry) and it is starting to bring International Companies to our shores because the dollar is so shitty that they can produce Airbus jet liner parts cheaper here than in FRANCE. Damm, did I really say that. YEP its true, the Euro is now up 65% over the US dollar this year. By the way the Brit Pound is up 100% and the Loonie is up 26% to par with our dollar.

 

Now look at the BS the International threw together. No one at the ACH knows crap, buyouts who knows or they wont give you a heads up to plan, new attendance policies and now the Hlth. care boondoggle. (Hlth. care rates to go up 10% in 08). This is like waiting for the announcement that your plant is closing. You don't want to believe it but baby you know its coming. How in the hell is the UAW investment team going to cover a 40% shortage from the get go and then cope with a 10% increase now and then.

 

YOU need to get real serious about the total picture and step out of the shadows of Big Blue and the UAW. Use every benefit you still have left to your advantage because you will need it.

[Trimdingman]

Greeeeeeat so some annalist somewhere decides that the VEBA will go bankrupt. Whooooopydedo!!!! If I had a penny for every wrong prediction by the so called expert annalist make a wrong prediction I'd be a freaking billionaire!!!!.

 

I never listen to them. How can anyone who is wrong more than he is right keep his job as an expert on any subject. The only way is if he is hired and paid to lie and mislead. It is the same as that Publisher's Clearing house contest. It is fake, but companies pay big bucks to tell them who the suckers are that believe in it. They then target them for marketing scams. It is the same as the "man-made global warming" groupies, and religious nuts. They all need to believe in something, no matter how stupid it is. Once they believe, no one can convince them otherwise. It is a powerful tool.

 

Maybe the union is looking down the road at deducting more money from your paycheck. Also, I am sure that there are scores of salivating beaurocrats who would love to get their sticky fingers into that VEBA pot. If it is in the union's interest for the money to run out, then it has already started growing legs.

Edited December 25, 2007 by Trimdingman

[NoMoVisteon]

STOP wishing fantasy and get real. This agreement is a warning shot over your head to let you know we are in deep poop in this country. Have you noticed who is buying real estate in this country, who's dollar is strong and who owns our debt. (The Brits, Chinese the Canadians) All the Fed can do is print more money to try to off set our imbalance. Neither the political parties have the desire to cut spending to stop this spiral. We are headed for a serious recession in this country and you need to start buying Gold, International Company stocks and bonds and Commodity based investments like yesterday. One bright spot to all this is while the greenback is tanking it improves the outlook for exports, (not much help for the US car industry) and it is starting to bring International Companies to our shores because the dollar is so shitty that they can produce Airbus jet liner parts cheaper here than in FRANCE. Damm, did I really say that. YEP its true, the Euro is now up 65% over the US dollar this year. By the way the Brit Pound is up 100% and the Loonie is up 26% to par with our dollar.

 

Now look at the BS the International threw together. No one at the ACH knows crap, buyouts who knows or they wont give you a heads up to plan, new attendance policies and now the Hlth. care boondoggle. (Hlth. care rates to go up 10% in 08). This is like waiting for the announcement that your plant is closing. You don't want to believe it but baby you know its coming. How in the hell is the UAW investment team going to cover a 40% shortage from the get go and then cope with a 10% increase now and then.

YOU need to get real serious about the total picture and step out of the shadows of Big Blue and the UAW. Use every benefit you still have left to your advantage because you will need it.

 

 

AN EXCELLENT POST ON THIS TOPIC, BUTTHEAD!! I couldn't agree more on this. I know it isn't the usual Christmas Cheer type of thing that delusional readers want to see, but the facts are undeniable! I, too, have been watching what is happening to the value of the dollar, etc, etc, and yes, foreigners are buying up real etate and other stuff at an ever increasing rate on a daily basis. We are definately heading for a serious recession in my opinion also, the slow down we are in now is only going to get worse before it gets better. Watch. I don't know how the UAW is going to handle this shitty agreement on the health care issue that they sold to everyone, I think it is going to be one big fucking mess before too long. Meanwhile, the market for our domestic auto and truck industry is still sinking faster than a turd being flushed down the toilet. :titanic: It is true that other foreign companies are coming to our country to set up business too. Whether that will be a blessing or not remains to be seen. The political interests, which includes big business, DO NOT have the interests and well being of the citizens of our country on their agenda, Not AT All. This also includes those in the Enviro-Whacko group as well. You can also include some of the larger labor organizations too, and that includes the UAW. The usual spin is that they are only going to tell you what little they want you to hear, NOT WHAT YOU NEED OR SHOULD KNOW. Let's face this fact head on. These well financed, wealthy interests and groups have set it up so they are in an exclusive virtually untouchable group...AND WE ARE DEFINATELY NOT IN IT!!! :fan: With that being said, the word is alert and you'd better start thinking with the brain you have in your head. Unless you've fried it with too many drinks and drugs, and let the almighty union do your thinking for you. :wacko: If that's the case, I say good luck, because that's all you're going to have to work with. :angrymirror:

[Harry Bennet]

Its Caterpillar all over again.

What can the UAW 'invest' this money in? China? Oil? Emerging markets?

The VEBA came too easy, someone, somewhere already agreed to spending it. But where?

ACH?

[level]

Its Caterpillar all over again.

What can the UAW 'invest' this money in? China? Oil? Emerging markets?

The VEBA came too easy, someone, somewhere already agreed to spending it. But where?

ACH?

 

 

You guys have got to be kidding me right?

 

An article by the stinking Free Press, based on opinions of "so called experts" and "workers" using "scant" information released says maybe there won't be enough!!!!!

 

Do people really think the UAW is that fucking stupid??

 

Do you just live for something negative to be said about your union so you can sound off with your half cocked commentaries about how you knew it all along?

 

Three of the best actuarial firms in the world worked on this funding. The Free press doesn't know shit, their experts are ill informed idiots who shouldn't even open their stupid yaps without knowing all of the info they don't have!!!!

 

Are you going to bitch on this thread for the next 79 years waiting for it to fail?

 

Get real. Quit listening to these stupid newspapers and their dumb fucking articles, designed to cause commotion and conflict. I guess they achieved their objective!

 

You should be pounding that newspaper with hate mail and phone calls for such a bullshit article! Not bash your Union! Get the fuck out if you can't stand with your brothers against criticism. I bet half of you posting didn't even read the fucking article before you started bashing the union.

 

HOLY SHIT THIS IS FUCKING PATHETIC.

 

And Harry Bennett was Henry Ford's top security guy in charge of bashing union men, how fucking ironic!!!! ??????

Edited December 26, 2007 by level

[ktpworker69]

AND WE ARE DEFINATELY NOT IN IT!!! :fan: With that being said, the word is alert and you'd better start thinking with the brain you have in your head. Unless you've fried it with too many drinks and drugs, and let the almighty union do your thinking for you. :wacko: If that's the case, I say good luck, because that's all you're going to have to work with. :angrymirror:

 

holy shit.....we are in trouble if we let the almighty union think for us

[Trimdingman]

You guys have got to be kidding me right?

 

An article by the stinking Free Press, based on opinions of "so called experts" and "workers" using "scant" information released says maybe there won't be enough!!!!!

 

Do people really think the UAW is that fucking stupid??

 

Do you just live for something negative to be said about your union so you can sound off with your half cocked commentaries about how you knew it all along?

 

Three of the best actuarial firms in the world worked on this funding. The Free press doesn't know shit, their experts are ill informed idiots who shouldn't even open their stupid yaps without knowing all of the info they don't have!!!!

 

Are you going to bitch on this thread for the next 79 years waiting for it to fail?

 

Get real. Quit listening to these stupid newspapers and their dumb fucking articles, designed to cause commotion and conflict. I guess they achieved their objective!

 

You should be pounding that newspaper with hate mail and phone calls for such a bullshit article! Not bash your Union! Get the fuck out if you can't stand with your brothers against criticism. I bet half of you posting didn't even read the fucking article before you started bashing the union.

 

HOLY SHIT THIS IS FUCKING PATHETIC.

 

And Harry Bennett was Henry Ford's top security guy in charge of bashing union men, how fucking ironic!!!! ??????

 

 

How do you know that it was not the union itself that planted that story? The left always needs doom and gloom so that they can tax. Maybe, down the road, the union will go after payroll deductions to shore up the fund. No matter what, I believe that it will soon be depleted. It is just too fat and juicy to resist.

[ptsweeper]

Anyone with 15 years or less on the job or under the age of 40 years old needs to prepare for retirement assuming that paid health care and Social Security will not exist. Any help from those two sources will be a bonus.

[Captain723]

AND WE ARE DEFINATELY NOT IN IT!!! :fan: With that being said, the word is alert and you'd better start thinking with the brain you have in your head. Unless you've fried it with too many drinks and drugs, and let the almighty union do your thinking for you. :wacko: If that's the case, I say good luck, because that's all you're going to have to work with. :angrymirror:

holy shit.....we are in trouble if we let the almighty union think for us

 

To:KTP, FATFRANK, MOFOVISTEON AND ASSFACE

 

here is your card dumb ass....you are the almighty UAW. Fkin idiots! The UAW is made up of all its members. The same members that are supposed to stick behind one another. Do us all a favor and please do not reproduce. Did you know that in the wild it is survival of the strong and the weak get eaten. In another world you would be eaten. Maybe you should use your education or take a buy out package and then apply for a job at the free press or maybe the Inquirer. I am sure you can run with the whole big foot theory!!

What part of the UAW hired top financial professionals that did the math didn't you fkin get. Keep listening to anal-yst from the newspaper that get paid to create controversy to sell their fricken paper! Do us all a favor and buy a 45, then take a long walk in the woods, so that we can get to the 20% entry level and save all of our health care!

[Trimdingman]

To:KTP, FATFRANK, MOFOVISTEON AND ASSFACE

 

here is your card dumb ass....you are the almighty UAW. Fkin idiots! The UAW is made up of all its members. The same members that are supposed to stick behind one another. Do us all a favor and please do not reproduce. Did you know that in the wild it is survival of the strong and the weak get eaten. In another world you would be eaten. Maybe you should use your education or take a buy out package and then apply for a job at the free press or maybe the Inquirer. I am sure you can run with the whole big foot theory!!

What part of the UAW hired top financial professionals that did the math didn't you fkin get. Keep listening to anal-yst from the newspaper that get paid to create controversy to sell their fricken paper! Do us all a favor and buy a 45, then take a long walk in the woods, so that we can get to the 20% entry level and save all of our health care!

 

What happens if there is hyper-inflation and the return on the investment doesn't keep up? Also, if the fund gets into a precarious state, the union will have an excuse to extract payroll deductions to bolster it. That could be an incentive to let it dwindle. I have always looked at the union like I look at the government. Once they take my money, it is gone. I belong to them, but it is more of a prisoner-warden relationship.

Edited December 26, 2007 by Trimdingman

[rn4]

What happens if there is hyper-inflation and the return on the investment doesn't keep up? Also, if the fund gets into a precarious state, the union will have an excuse to extract payroll deductions to bolster it. That could be an incentive to let it dwindle. I have always looked at the union like I look at the government. Once they take my money, it is gone. I belong to them, but it is more of a prisoner-warden relationship.

What happens if an astroid hits the earth. If any of this happens all the doom and gloomers will blame it on Bill Clinton. :shades:

[Trimdingman]

What happens if an astroid hits the earth. If any of this happens all the doom and gloomers will blame it on Bill Clinton. :shades:

 

Al Gore says that we are going to all drown when the ice melts, and then burn up; and the left says that it is all George Bush's fault. If Hillary was president, nothing would melt. All she would have to do is stare at it. George Bush can control the path of a hurricane. He could deflect an asteroid easy. Bill Clinton could handle anything just as long as it had some hair around it. If you wanted him to bomb Iraq, just put Monica on the 6:00 news. He should have laid off that crack.

[Furious1Auto]

Are you going to bitch on this thread for the next 79 years waiting for it to fail?

Level you don't/didn't really believe that it would last 80 years did you? I knew that when/if it would have been ratified into a contract that we would be selling our retiree medical and it wasn't worth $3,000.00 to do so! The facts are the facts, if these guys didn't want it than they should have voted "NO"! The fact is that the contract passed by majority vote and obviously these people wanted it because I warned them! The best we can do is lobby for social health care, there is some contention about what sort of social health care we need though, I do not support the single payer system that Ron Gettlefinger reportedly does. It must be funded and those who don't contribute, should not be entitled period! So we can either face the facts and do what needs to be done, (I have aquired a copy of Micheal Moores SiKO and am passing it around to people, and discussing Merit Health Care with them) or stay in LaLa Land and watch our medical costs consume us once we retire!

Anyone with 15 years or less on the job or under the age of 40 years old needs to prepare for retirement assuming that paid health care and Social Security will not exist. Any help from those two sources will be a bonus.

Agreed, if the necessary changes are not made!

Edited December 27, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[butthead]

Level,

 

No

 

If the UAW didn't use the press shame on them. I cant believe you don't think the UAW doesn't use them for their own propaganda. I would be surprised to learn that UAW used the media to leak information. Oh how righteous is thee O mighty UAW.

 

No They are excellent at what they do. The current group just bought more time to get this deal done so they can move on.

 

No, With all the non information and secrecy the Leaders of this group portend on its members we are just tired of not being given the necessary info to make a sound decision.

 

Out of the mouth of babes the UAW and their intelligent bunch project a 5% annual increase in health care inflation opps cost. Are we all going to die before we get sick. Its a matter of statistical fact not a plant rumor that the inflation rate on health care has gone up 9 to 11% the past few years and just this week the health care industry projects a 10% increase. Come on Level we all know the price of everything is holding steady or going down especially health care cost. I wonder if these are the same firms that are going to charge 100's of millions of dollars to invest, advise and audit this fund.

 

No, Just long enough to expose the fraud. By the end of next contract there will be some type of reduction in retirees benefits and increases in co-pays and or premiums. Remember the last vote on retirees benefits, mid contract, approved by 51% RIGHTTTTTTT.

 

One of the best benefits the Ford/UAW relationship has is the ability to get an education so that we can think for ourselves. Do you believe that we should discontinue this benefit due to the fact we cant think for ourselves and that we only believe what the press says. Hail to the UAW for they are all knowing and we are ignorant helpless dolts.

 

When they deserve it they get it. The media is not the only group that deserves a negative rebuttal when their agenda gets out kilter. Some of our brothers and sisters have an agenda that is a long way from being one of the three musketeers. Why do some UNION members get away with slacking off and the BS while people who show up every day do their job and file a grievance get denied in order to get a slacker their job back.

 

Sorry, not everyone subscribes to the official Level doctrine. Rah Rah you go UAW.

 

It looks like Harry jumped sides, will Ron and Bob do the same when they leave?

[skittet150]

Level you don't/didn't really believe that it would last 80 years did you? I knew that when/if it would have been ratified into a contract that we would be selling our retiree medical and it wasn't worth $3,000.00 to do so! The facts are the facts, if these guys didn't want it than thy should have voted "NO"! The fact is that the contract passed by majority vote and obviously these people wanted it because I warned them! The best we can do is lobby for social health care, there is some contention about what sort of social health care we need though, I do not support the single payer system that Ron Gettlefinger reportedly does. It must be funded and those who don't contribute, should not be entitled period! So we can either face the facts and do what needs to be done, (I have aquired a copy of Micheal Moores SiKO and am passing it around to people, and discussing Merit Health Care with them) or stay in LaLa Land and watch our medical costs consume us once we retire!

Agreed, if the necessary changes are not made!

Great, another "Moore"on! If you think that social health care program is going to solve our problems, you put way too much faith in your government that you should. One only needs to look to Canada to see that social health care is not the awnser. John Stossel from Nighline had a good story on social health care. Our current system is better than any program the Dems could think up. Hell, Hillary "rotten" C. had the balls to say if she is elected, the price of oil would fall. What a stupid bitch! Goes to show you just how bad they want to control how much profeit you can make. Communism in a pants suit!

[level]

Level,

 

No

 

If the UAW didn't use the press shame on them. I cant believe you don't think the UAW doesn't use them for their own propaganda. I would be surprised to learn that UAW used the media to leak information. Oh how righteous is thee O mighty UAW.

 

No They are excellent at what they do. The current group just bought more time to get this deal done so they can move on.

 

No, With all the non information and secrecy the Leaders of this group portend on its members we are just tired of not being given the necessary info to make a sound decision.

 

Out of the mouth of babes the UAW and their intelligent bunch project a 5% annual increase in health care inflation opps cost. Are we all going to die before we get sick. Its a matter of statistical fact not a plant rumor that the inflation rate on health care has gone up 9 to 11% the past few years and just this week the health care industry projects a 10% increase. Come on Level we all know the price of everything is holding steady or going down especially health care cost. I wonder if these are the same firms that are going to charge 100's of millions of dollars to invest, advise and audit this fund.

 

No, Just long enough to expose the fraud. By the end of next contract there will be some type of reduction in retirees benefits and increases in co-pays and or premiums. Remember the last vote on retirees benefits, mid contract, approved by 51% RIGHTTTTTTT.

 

One of the best benefits the Ford/UAW relationship has is the ability to get an education so that we can think for ourselves. Do you believe that we should discontinue this benefit due to the fact we cant think for ourselves and that we only believe what the press says. Hail to the UAW for they are all knowing and we are ignorant helpless dolts.

 

When they deserve it they get it. The media is not the only group that deserves a negative rebuttal when their agenda gets out kilter. Some of our brothers and sisters have an agenda that is a long way from being one of the three musketeers. Why do some UNION members get away with slacking off and the BS while people who show up every day do their job and file a grievance get denied in order to get a slacker their job back.

 

Sorry, not everyone subscribes to the official Level doctrine. Rah Rah you go UAW.

 

It looks like Harry jumped sides, will Ron and Bob do the same when they leave?

 

I am not calling for blind obedience guys!

 

All I am saying is read the fucking article! You guys are sooooo good at picking apart everything soemebody has to say in writining on this board - why can't you do the same with a press article?

 

Let me paste a few "blurbs" from the article" for you :

 

FROM THE SUBTITLE: "Some experts, workers fear retiree funding will run out"

How many experts - 1 out of 10? What kind of expert? Better than the top in the world actuarial firms Ford and UAW hired? And some workers? Ha ha ha come on get real!

 

FROM THE ARTICLE:

 

1.) could run out of money much sooner than the 80 years union President Ron Gettelfinger said it would last.

Oh it "could". No one ever said that probability and statistics was a sure science, everything is possible, including it "could last longer", we "could" get national health care. C'mon.

 

2.) Industry experts say the scant public information about the trust -- known as a voluntary employees' beneficiary association, or VEBA -- provides little comfort that current benefits will remain as promised for hundreds of thousands of UAW retirees.

Experts don't base such decisions on "scant" information. When predicting out 80 years, the compounding of interest and errors means the world, you need all of the correct info, nothing scant!!! Experts my ass!!!

 

3.) Automakers are paying an estimated $52 billion to shift $88 billion in retiree health care liabilities to the union-run trust -- leaving about $36 billion unfunded.

No shit sherlock, that's why they did it. It is the future liability they are saving, which we are making up in interest. Just like you putting 25 dollars a week away for life nets you millions 80 years out. It is not rocket science, they bought out future debt so they can make future profit. We took on future debt to pay for it with interest on money and investments. They would never fund it 100%!!!! Why would they do that? So we could make millions off the interest on their money. It wouldn't save them a dime that way. Stupid, stupid reporter.

 

4.) The plan assumes health care inflation falls to 5% by 2013 and stays at that level, even though it has averaged almost double that rate in recent decades

No shit! Just like Ford wants a cut of 5% task per year of employees. How many years could you do that before no one worked there? Ridiculous! If health care continued in double digits forever, then the goverment will shoot you because it will cost too much to put a cast on your arm! These assumptions were done by the world's leading experts, who are we to argue? Look at what they say at the end of the article in # 11!!

 

5.) They've got ridiculous assumptions on health care costs," said Lance Wallach, a VEBA consultant in the New York City area

A VEBA consultant? based on "scant information" tthinks he knows better than the three top firms in the world? Enough said!

 

6.) Union members and outside experts said the UAW will have difficulty keeping its commitments unless the federal government has a national health care system within 5-15 years.

What Union members know enough to say anything? Who are they and why are they working at Ford? Outside experts? who? where? #10 is the only guy you quote!!! Hahahahaha

 

7.) People familiar with the VEBA planning dispute those assessments, saying their analysis of life expectancies, investment returns and health care cost inflation shows otherwise.

Okay, something that makes sense! People familiar with the VEBA say the so called expert people with scant info are wrong. That makes sense to me.

 

8.) The UAW would not comment for this report and hasn't publicly shared a detailed analysis that supports the promise

So what are all of these "experts" basing their fucking decisions on?

 

9.) The UAW, like the automakers, won't divulge details about ages of members and other factors that are crucial to determining the plan's soundness.

Again, then what are your "experts" basing their opinions on. The article admits that they lack the info needed to judge soundness!!!!! Holy shit!!!! Are you following me guys!!

 

10.) Jim Robinson, a skilled trades worker at GM's assembly plant in Arlington, Texas, said he didn't see how it could last. "But I haven't seen much," he said. "

Oh. that's a classic!!!!! Hahahahahahahah!

 

11.) Ultimately, though, Raleigh and others argue that politics or other factors must begin to slow the rate of inflation, or the country will go bankrupt.

Oh so your article against the VEBA, also assume US bankruptcy! I see. Great article, nice fact finding!

 

 

 

You guys see what I am saying? That article is absolute bullshit. It contradicts itself without any factual basis based on so called experts and the feelings of uniformed members. Great.

 

Again I am not calloing for blind obedience, but you guys are pretty good at picking apart things in writing. Get my drift?

[whereswaldo]

Again I am not calloing for blind obedience, but you guys are pretty good at picking apart things in writing. Get my drift?[/b][/size]

ALL HAIL , LEVEL, PROTECTOR OF THE SIGHTLESS MASSES !! :bowdown:

[Captain723]

What happens if there is hyper-inflation and the return on the investment doesn't keep up? Also, if the fund gets into a precarious state, the union will have an excuse to extract payroll deductions to bolster it. That could be an incentive to let it dwindle. I have always looked at the union like I look at the government. Once they take my money, it is gone. I belong to them, but it is more of a prisoner-warden relationship.

What if the world ends tomorrow?? What if the Chineese or japaneese take over the US, then what?