armadamaster Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 The market is changing to crossovers and car based utilities - that is why they aren't selling as much anymore, BOF in Explorer is not needed.It is naieve to think all the panthers and Explorers need is refreshening. It's more naive to think they need to be summarily done away with. Shhh, your making me masturbate. I would love to have a 2008 535. Fixed. Sorry...couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) It's more naive to think they need to be summarily done away with. With dwindling retail sales, they will become like the Checker cabs. Do you want to see your favourite platform go out like that? The panthers deserve an honourable termination, not lingering death. If Ford won't spend the money on them, they should do the right thing. Edited January 7, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) Graceful cars like the panthers deserves a better end than fleet hacks. The world is changing and the era of the panther is almost done. Edited January 7, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder2299of7839 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 regardless of induction, you cannot change the fact that there is 120 deg of rotation between each combustion event, vs 90 degrees on an 8 cylinder. an enthusiast can feel it even if the numbed masses cant. and yes the I-6 is much smoother feeling than a v-6 rigid block, or shared bore plane I dunno. I do know that a full-size car with a v-6, even a powerful V-6 does not satisfy, could be why even with no marketing, and huge fleet restrictions, the panther outsells its little bretheren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Bring back the Taurus SHO and change the grille on the Fusion to this, And the Tuarus numbers will increase! That looks like a Civic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I do know that a full-size car with a v-6, even a powerful V-6 does not satisfy, could be why even with no marketing, and huge fleet restrictions, the panther outsells its little bretheren. Hmmm barely. 2007 sales: Panthers: 138,304 D3's: 131, 409 And how much advertising have the D3's gotten? Not much. And what fleet RESTRICTIONS keep the Panther from selling better? Unless you mean the retail public is restricted from desiring one because they mostly go to fleets and have horrid residuals because of it. By the end of '08, I'm guessing Panther sales will likely be down +/- 40% with D3 sales up approximately the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 That looks like a Civic... Honda should be so lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 By the end of '08, I'm guessing Panther sales will likely be down +/- 40% with D3 sales up approximately the same. Well, that would only make sense...considering all of the vehicles that are D3 based... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 In all seriousness, where all these Panther fans gonna go when the car is finally killed off? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) Well, that would only make sense...considering all of the vehicles that are D3 based... Only additional D3 vehicles this year will be the Flex and MKS...and those won't be until late...and probably won't be huge volume changers that late in the game. But doesn't the increase in D3 stable mates indicate that it is a more worthwhile platform to invest in? Panther sales are dwindling year-over-year. They were headed downward well before the D3's even showed up. 2003: 222,093 2004: 202,053 2005: 175,777 2006: 156,959 2007: 138,304 2008: ????? Edited January 7, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 In all seriousness, where all these Panther fans gonna go when the car is finally killed off? :P There will be plenty used for us to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 In all seriousness, where all these Panther fans gonna go when the car is finally killed off? :P Try a ZIL; then again, maybe they can ship all the STAP tooling to Russia, like Chrysler did with the previous Sebring. http://digilander.libero.it/cuoccimix/ENGL...sse9-G(Zil).htm http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/articles/atributesEng13.shtml http://www.oldtimer.ru/en.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 There will be plenty used for us to buy. LOL So nothing is going to change,except you'll extoll the values of a car you can't buy anymore, except used.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 then again, maybe they can ship all the STAP tooling to Russia, like Chrysler did with the previous Sebring. Got a link to that? I'm curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Only additional D3 vehicles this year will be the Flex and MKS...and those won't be until late...and probably won't be huge volume changers that late in the game. But doesn't the increase in D3 stable mates indicate that it is a more worthwhile platform to invest in? Panther sales are dwindling year-over-year. They were headed downward well before the D3's even showed up. 2003: 222,093 2004: 202,053 2005: 175,777 2006: 156,959 2007: 138,304 2008: ????? Keep in mind that the TC is a huge factor in why the sales were down this year (so think of it as 2.5 Panther cars...). Plus, you still have sales of cars that aren't made anymore ie: Montego/Five Hundred. Add the Taurus X, Freestyle, Taurus, and Sable and it should outsell the Panthers. But you can't include Taurus X/Freestyle sales when comparing to the Panthers. Really, you can only include the D3 sedans...which have yet to out sell the Panthers since their introduction. The really funny part is that Mercury sold more Montegos this year than Sables... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 LOL So nothing is going to change,except you'll extoll the values of a car you can't buy anymore, except used.... There great cars on a great platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 http://jalopnik.com/cars/news/in-russia-ca...dels-167765.php Selling the Panther tooling to Russia should be considered, as Russia has all the oil it needs, no CAFE for Putin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) Keep in mind that the TC is a huge factor in why the sales were down this year (so think of it as 2.5 Panther cars...). Plus, you still have sales of cars that aren't made anymore ie: Montego/Five Hundred. Add the Taurus X, Freestyle, Taurus, and Sable and it should outsell the Panthers. But you can't include Taurus X/Freestyle sales when comparing to the Panthers. Really, you can only include the D3 sedans...which have yet to out sell the Panthers since their introduction. But then we go back to what do the Panthers actually do for Ford? They do more damage to brand image these days than their (quickly slipping) profit margins make up for. You really have no idea how much Panthers are made fun of by fans of other car brands, do you? They are a freaking joke to the rest of the industry and reflect poorly on the entire company. Oh, and if you can include a "luxury" sedan (I use that term loosely) in the sales totals for Panthers, I don't see why I can't include a glorified station wagon in the D3 totals. At least the Taurus X/Freestyle is priced similarly to the others and there really isn't a hill of beans difference between them and the Sable/Taurus from an engineering perspective. I'm guessing they are cross-shopped quite frequently. The really funny part is that Mercury sold more Montegos this year than Sables... Nothing too "funny" about it. The Sable wasn't launched until mid-year. Montego stocks were obviously better at dealers for the better part of the year. Five Hundred sales were better than Taurus sales for much of the year also for the same reason. Not to mention dealers were cutting prices on the older D3's just to get rid of them. Edited January 7, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Panther sales are dwindling year-over-year. They were headed downward well before the D3's even showed up. 2003: 222,093 2004: 202,053 2005: 175,777 2006: 156,959 2007: 138,304 2008: ????? The CAW Contract will probably indicate STAP and the panthers' future. Probably another 3 years time when the new combined Falcon/Mustang product cycle starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 They are a freaking joke to the rest of the industry and reflect poorly on the entire company. You should go into comedy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Nick, exactly who is making fun of the Panthers again?? I know I belong to four different automotive boards and the only group of Panther haters are those on here. I've had several members on those boards ask about my car and I've recommended the Panthers and never have been jeered at for owning one. Oh, and these aren't Panther boards either. Are you hanging around Honda Chat or something? The Panther isn't an embarrassment; its virtually obscure now. Its customers know where to find them and law enforcement being the primary customer, depend on its reliability. If you're Ford, you'd better see a fairly large and consistent customer base and not listen to the naysayers. That is, unless you want to completely remove yourself from a particular market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Nick, exactly who is making fun of the Panthers again?? I know I belong to four different automotive boards and the only group of Panther haters are those on here. I've had several members on those boards ask about my car and I've recommended the Panthers and never have been jeered at for owning one. Oh, and these aren't Panther boards either. Are you hanging around Honda Chat or something? The Panther isn't an embarrassment; its virtually obscure now. Its customers know where to find them and law enforcement being the primary customer, depend on its reliability. If you're Ford, you'd better see a fairly large and consistent customer base and not listen to the naysayers. That is, unless you want to completely remove yourself from a particular market. I think you may have Nicks ( and possibly mine ) perspective wrong, the Panther is a great car, or should i say WAS, truth is it is done, over and past tense, the angle we take is get over it, its sales were waning to say the least, and the demographic came in on walkers w oxygen...loyal is an UNDERSTATEMENT! My personal issue is the people that live in the past and condone ALL efforts since the antiquated panther, it is time to move on. In my opinion it should be replaced with something along the lines of the interceptor, a RWD LARGE sedan I feel is important to ford ( hopefully enough to bring said product to market ) but the Panther has outlived its usefulness and perhaps its ability to be modernized....thats all, nothing personal....and yes it is dependable as hell, but so is the fusion, I don't see anything but critisism from the panther crowd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Ford could make a big D3 sedan at Oakville to displace the Town Car by using MKS styling , the Flex's 80" width and 117" wheel base. Anything is possible with D3 derivatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Ford could make a big D3 sedan at Oakville to displace the Town Car by using MKS styling , the Flex's 80" width and 117" wheel base.Anything is possible with D3 derivatives. the panther boys are OBSESSED w RWD.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I think you may have Nicks ( and possibly mine ) perspective wrong, the Panther is a great car, or should i say WAS, truth is it is done, over and past tense, the angle we take is get over it, its sales were waning to say the least, and the demographic came in on walkers w oxygen...loyal is an UNDERSTATEMENT! My personal issue is the people that live in the past and condone ALL efforts since the antiquated panther, it is time to move on. In my opinion it should be replaced with something along the lines of the interceptor, a RWD LARGE sedan I feel is important to ford ( hopefully enough to bring said product to market ) but the Panther has outlived its usefulness and perhaps its ability to be modernized....thats all, nothing personal....and yes it is dependable as hell, but so is the fusion, I don't see anything but critisism from the panther crowd... I have to totally agree with you and your statement, I live in an area where there are quite a few retirement developments and all I see are blue hairs who shouldn't even be driving with Panthers. Even my neighbour who lives below me sell his old Grand Marque since they got too old to drive (and his kids (if you can call them at 50 + yrs old) drive a CTS and 300C)... There nothing wrong with a large RWD sedan, just that the Panther isn't the Future for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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